Shute Shield 2014

[Hugh Jarse]

Rugby News does have a news feed on their web page, which is notionally a 24/7 update but realistically is limited to the editorial ability and capability of the full timers at Rugby News, and that is probably not too many.

I love reading Rugby News on Saturdays at Games, and even when I can't make a Shute game for whatever reason, I'll read the on line version during the week.

I do not begrudge throwing a fiver their way for a good read. They have pretty much got the format and balance right, but then that have had a few years to establish what the punters want, and deliver what we want.

 

[Gibbo]

I dig this new format. While seperating the Premier and Club Rugby 'grades' will not be great for club morale it will attract more players to the Shute shield clubs as players in 3rd or 4th Grade will be able to play at 1.30 and 3 pm every week - instead of 10:30 and midday.

This is a major down side when playing lower grade footy for Shute SHield clubs.

Good players will be able to graduate from 3s to 2s with little impact to their Saturday schedule. This will take away the attraction for good quality 3rd graders to go to Subbies so they can play afternoon footy.

 

[refugee]

Dont think the new format will be of any benefit to the premier clubs.
Keep colts and grade seperate . Anyone good enough in colts will be moved up anyway.
Will second grade carry a fresh bench? How will third grade back up or are they to be relegated and only first colts will back up.
Not fair on players aspiring to improve.

 

[hawktrain]

"· In time Clubs may take a decision to withdraw from Premier Rugby, but remain a SRU Club playing Club Rugby, and possibly even vice versa.

· This could then allow new participants in Premier or Club Rugby, subject to the requirements of the SRU."

This I found interesting. Suggesting that weaker clubs could drop from premier rugby to club rugby, but also possibly suggesting new clubs in the club rugby division? Subbies clubs having a chance to enter the comp if they want? It'll be interesting to see how the various clubs at different ends of the SS spectrum feel about this proposal.

 

[The Raging Potato]

The "proposal" seems like a ridiculous rearranging of the furniture with no thought on the logistics. For a start this idea of a "Premier" comp for aspiring players and a "club" comp does not stack up for clubs with a depth of talent. For example, I would suggest that the "aspiring" contingent at Norths Colts extends into the top few players in Colts 3. I'm sure the same can be said at other clubs in the top end. What the hell are they supposed to think if they are all of a sudden lumped into some care less category? Then what happens with reserves? Are 1st Colts and 2nd Grade supposed to carry a bench as well as 3rd Colts and 4th Grade? Not sure how that is supposed to work and in a time of dwindling numbers if it is even achievable.

 

[I like to watch]

Anyone who has aspirations,has no place in a club where they select them in colts 3's.

 

[The Raging Potato]

I beg to differ ILTW. There are plenty of guys who start in Colts 3 who end up playing higher levels but start off in Colts 3 due to numbers/cattle in their respective positions. For example, this year's Colts 1 No. 9 played Colts 3 for the whole of the previous season. The same player would have been picked in higher grades elsewhere the previous season.

 

[I like to watch]

Being graded in 3's first year out,is different to being promoted from 3's into 1's in the same year.
If you have the ability to play 1's it's a waste of time playing 3's.

 

[The Raging Potato]

Not sure if I follow. My point is that there are guys graded in 3s at some clubs who would be graded in 2s and 1s if they were at other clubs. Playing 1s at Penrith is not the same as playing 1s at Uni. I think what you are saying is those guys reduced to playing 3s should try their hand at the Emus or the Rats (for instance). It would be nice if the best players could be evenly distributed among the clubs but in reality probably unlikely.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Being graded in 3's first year out,is different to being promoted from 3's into 1's in the same year.
If you have the ability to play 1's it's a waste of time playing 3's.

In my experience it was the youngest guys who needed a year to developed that played in 3rds. Though if you were good enough you played in the top grades.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The spreading of the top talent around the clubs was kind of what the the Player Points was supposed to achieve.

 

[The Raging Potato]

The spreading of the top talent around the clubs was kind of what the the Player Points was supposed to achieve.

If that was what it was supposed to achieve, it failed HJ! The only way to achieve a spread of talent is to force it somehow. And realistically it ain't gonna happen. Most young blokes travel with their mates to club rugby and I don't see that changing

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The failure of the Player Points system to achieve the purpose for which it was set up is widely acknowledged by many on these threads, but yet there doesn't seem to be be too much interest from the Clubs to change the system, or the "loopholes".

 

[The Raging Potato]

Given that hardly anyone (with a couple of exceptions) get close to the points limit on a weekly basis and there is a significant disparity between the player pools of the clubs I would suggest that the "cap" is set to high to encourage a mobile player base. On the flip side, it is unreasonable to expect a boy from the North Shore (for example) to travel to Nepean to get his rugby fix because the points system won't let him in his chosen club.

 

[Dave Beat]

The way it reads, we get to watch 4 games on Saturday, 1st's, 2nd's, 1st's colts, and an under 19, or 17 game. Nothing wrong with that.
Focuses on players aspiring to take their game to the next level - whilst some possible weaknesses have been pointed out, there are a lot of strengths.

No doubt the club still trains and plays together, and they manager their players accordingly.

Haven't seen posts that tear the proposal apart, some valid questions yes but I think there are more strengths that weakness's.

• As a spectator - yeah I'd still get down pre lunch and watch the games.
• If I was a 3rd or 4th grader - there are generally 2 kinds;

1. Club stalwart - good player, but there to play with his mates, could possibly play 2's or maybe 1's else where but wont leave.
2. Just outa colts - he will still knuckle down and try and step up to 2nd grade. The aspiring players will probably want to achieve this at a strong club rather than take a shortcut. But players choice.

What will be interesting - and it's good to see its been raised is the player points system.

• Will proposed structure assist in achieving a better balance?
• Does it get reviewed and altered?

There is not a perfect solution to this, use to be Randwick, Gordon had a period, now its Uni. Or do we complain that Eastwood always wins Minor Premiership.

We should be trying to beat the best on the pitch, and not trying to restructure them on paper.

Uni is in a different box post Super Season, I do think this needs to be looked at but if clubs are doing the right things and achieving results - they should be followed, and not torn down.

I'm a big fan of Clubs working with and nurturing their grass roots - and if that results in a team of players filtering through that are S15 class why shouldn't they stay at the one club. The club should benefit, and it also assist future growth and development within that club.

 

[Done that]

Ultimately the "new" format will reduce the number of players in each club , & the number of teams.
Perhaps this is the unwritten agenda?
The consequences of having a reduced number of active members in a Rugby club,I believe,are predominantly negative.
Lower grade players will experience a disconnect with their club & go elsewhere ,e.g.subbies , or be reduced to sitting on the bench as reserves , or find something else to do on Saturday.

The bottom line is that you are separating the paid contracted players from the important enthusiastic amateurs each week with obvious consequences..Apparently some on this forum find this agreeable ,I don't.

 

[I like to watch]

Where is the benefit from the proposed changes?

 

[Dave Beat]

Ultimately the "new" format will reduce the number of players in each club , & the number of teams.
Perhaps this is the unwritten agenda?
The consequences of having a reduced number of active members in a Rugby club,I believe,are predominantly negative.
Lower grade players will experience a disconnect with their club & go elsewhere ,e.g.subbies , or be reduced to sitting on the bench as reserves , or find something else to do on Saturday.

The bottom line is that you are separating the paid contracted players from the important enthusiastic amateurs each week with obvious consequences..Apparently some on this forum find this agreeable ,I don't.

Hmm interesting thoughts.
Reduction in players - possibly. But a well run club my prevent this, I do understand why you think this though. I'm thinking there maybe some teething felt with clubs working out what works best. It sounded like the clubs were instrumental designing the proposed.

Done the right way it doesn't need to reduce numbers,
Ground 1 1sts / 2nds & Colts 1s & 2s.
Ground 2 3rd's / 4ths & Colts 3s & 4s (or an Under 17 / 18).

Going elsewhere - I do think each club will be different. Subbies have always been there, I think the majority of 3rd & 4th graders are playing with their club now because they like their club - not because they wont to be a First Grader. I think player retention will come down to club culture.

I do understand your initial thoughts though.

 

[Dave Beat]

Where is the benefit from the proposed changes?

I get to watch grade and colts now, rather that mainly grade.

 

[Cattledog]

Where is the benefit from the proposed changes?

From one sense if we view these proposed changes as being the creation of Premier Div 1 & Premier Div 2 it could be used quite well to grow the aspirational game.

Obviously there will be some clubs who will easily field teams in both Premier Div 1 (2 grades & a colts) & Premier Div 2 (2 grades & a colts) no problem. Eastwood - SUFC - Manly etc.

However, if a Premier club wished to only compete in Premier Div 1 then their spot in Premier Div 2 could be allocated to a club conveniently & geographically located in an area that the NSWRU or SRU wished to develop thus bringing premier rugby to a wider area.

Therefore if a couple of Premier Clubs only wished to focus their "finances & energies" on fielding teams in Premier Div 1 one could envisage that Premier Div 2 could become a really interesting competition & possibly include aspiring clubs from Wollongong, the Central Coast, Campbelltown, Newcastle, or even Bathurst.

Obviously the metropolitan clubs which didn't field teams in Premier Div 2 would need to form a relationship with a Subbies club to take their overflow and provide the replacements (they would obviously need over the season to cope with injuries) but this could be mutually beneficial.