Shute Shield 2013

[Hugh Jarse]

Interested to know if clubs run there own BBQ/ canteen and make any good profits from this? The Wicks have previously outsourced this to junior clubs to raise money but are looking at running it themselves and going 50/50 with junior clubs in 2013. How good are the emu burgers at Penrith!!!

Hi Pete, I have a degree in fundraising BBQ for schools and clubs, rugby and nippers, with post graduate diploma in BBQ eating.

Junior clubs running the BBQ at SS games can result in inconsistent quality from week to week depending on the roster. Standards vary depending on the volunteers that the junior clubs manage to motivate to do the BBQ. I have experienced this at Coogee Oval. Mostly the product and serivce is good and I tolerate inconsistency cause I know that the funds are all heading back to the grass roots clubs.

Easts have out sourced their BBQ to a commercial entity. It is consistent but expensive and I always feel a little reluctant buying product because I am not sure how much of my money is going to end up in the hands of the kids clubs that are the future of our game.

If the SS club is to run their own BBQ, they need to ensure that they have plenty of volunteers available to run the BBQ effectively and efficiently. I hate having to queue up for 10 minutes at 1/2 time for a sherbert and cold or undercooked sausage Sanger. The pool of keen volunteers is limited in most clubs, and BBQ Will take 3 people to run and 2-3 in the canteen. 5 volunteers who will do the do from 11am 4th grade to 5pm 1st grade can be difficult to find.

If the Junior clubs have been accustomed to getting revenue from canteen/BBQ, and this year they receive only 50% profit share (albeit that they now do not have to run their rostered BBQ's on game day), I can almost guarantee that they will have their hand out for more revenue. Not a good place to be. The extra revenue gained by Randwick may end up being redirected to prop up the Junior Clubs anyway, and dilute the overall volunteer game day efforts.

I would not recommend that you go the way of Easts and totally commercialise the BBQ. I would rather go without than fund a commercial organization. Bad quality product from a Junior club or SS club is seen as a donation to the grass roots.

Proceed with caution and don't spring too many surprises on the kids clubs. The marginal gains may not be worth it in the long term.

 

[en_force_er]

The extra revenue gained by Randwick may end up being redirected to prop up the Junior Clubs anyway, and dilute the overall volunteer game day efforts.

Still better to have funds to play with (even if they end up doing the same thing) rather than funds already committed.

 

[the coach]

Interesting thoughts from Simon Poidevin and Chris Roche about the 3rd tier:
http://www.randwickrugby.com.au/news/2013-news/1956-clubs-the-key-to-third-tier-says-simon-poidevin

 

[the coach]

On the subject of BBQs I'll probably get shot down in flames, but I've always thought the sausage sandwiches were way overpriced at Chatswood and that the locals got an extra sausage!
Maybe I should take my Randwick cap off next time I'm buying

 

[senior]

On the subject of BBQs I'll probably get shot down in flames, but I've always thought the sausage sandwiches were way overpriced at Chatswood and that the locals got an extra sausage!
Maybe I should take my Randwick cap off next time I'm buying

where do I start.....

 

[Blackers13]

Did anyone read the Brett Harris article in The Australian today? http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/rugby-union

It quotes Simon Poidevin (Randwick) and Chris Roche (Brisbane Norths) promoting the concept of a Heineken Cup style Club Competition, featuring the existing Sydney and Brisbane Grade plus other such as Canberra Vikings. The thrust is that the ARU should be looking to fund and resource the existing system rather than attempt another ARC type debacle.Hallelujah to that! No mention of how it would work but I could see a conference style featuring all clubs followed by a 'national championship' from the top 5 Sydney, 4 Brisbane and 1 ACT clubs.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

On the subject of BBQs I'll probably get shot down in flames, but I've always thought the sausage sandwiches were way overpriced at Chatswood and that the locals got an extra sausage!
Maybe I should take my Randwick cap off next time I'm buying

Im sure they add something to make up for the sausage you're missing out on

 

[lily]

Wouldn't there be a danger of everyone who is a fringe player gravitating to one of the usual suspects. The Shute Shield final 5 doesn't change very often. Players would see an opportunity to be on a bigger stage therefore weakening all non top 5 clubs. Another problem would be the wealthy benefactor that uses one of the also rans as his own franchise, answerable to no-one. This cashed up benefactor would not be seen as a problem at all by the powers that be.
Might be shortsighted but just putting it out there.

 

[the coach]

Im sure they add something to make up for the sausage you're missing out on

But what do they add....that's the question?
Can't beat the Emu burgers....real value for money and the meat (and gravy) covers the whole bun!
Makes the trip to Nepean well worth the effort

 

[Blackers13]

Wouldn't there be a danger of everyone who is a fringe player gravitating to one of the usual suspects. The Shute Shield final 5 doesn't change very often. Players would see an opportunity to be on a bigger stage therefore weakening all non top 5 clubs. Another problem would be the wealthy benefactor that uses one of the also rans as his own franchise, answerable to no-one. This cashed up benefactor would not be seen as a problem at all by the powers that be.
Might be shortsighted but just putting it out there.

Possibly, I just tossed up a suggestion, the critical thing is the ARU funding a tier 3 competition through the existing club base. It could be just a boosting of funding at club level, subject to audited criteria, and a genuine plan to market the local comps through an FTA or Pay TV deal.

 

[Dave Beat]

Possibly, I just tossed up a suggestion, the critical thing is the ARU funding a tier 3 competition through the existing club base. It could be just a boosting of funding at club level, subject to audited criteria, and a genuine plan to market the local comps through an FTA or Pay TV deal.

Why not 3 or 4 must be geographic rep teams

 

[Blackers13]

Why not 3 or 4 must be geographic rep teams

No, that defeats the purpose and was part of the reason for the ARC failure, no one identified with the teams so no one went to the games. My view is the ARU needs to fund the clubs so that they can deliver on a set of minimum standards in coaching, junior development and business model, perhaps even a salary cap. Through their own devices, clubs could supplement the base grant to fund additional resources but all clubs would be subject to an audit process to ensure the grant money was being used appropriately. The clubs are in the best position to identify and develop talent, so put in the structure, give us the funding and we could run a very successful third tier. We do a pretty fine job now with the thruppence hapenny the ARU make us beg for now.

 

[Dave Beat]

No, that defeats the purpose and was part of the reason for the ARC failure, no one identified with the teams so no one went to the games. My view is the ARU needs to fund the clubs so that they can deliver on a set of minimum standards in coaching, junior development and business model, perhaps even a salary cap. Through their own devices, clubs could supplement the base grant to fund additional resources but all clubs would be subject to an audit process to ensure the grant money was being used appropriately. The clubs are in the best position to identify and develop talent, so put in the structure, give us the funding and we could run a very successful third tier. We do a pretty fine job now with the thruppence hapenny the ARU make us beg for now.

Didn't the ARC have players from one Shute Shield club, playing at varying ARC teams, that concept didn't work.

 

[Andrew B Cox]

Wouldn't there be a danger of everyone who is a fringe player gravitating to one of the usual suspects. The Shute Shield final 5 doesn't change very often. Players would see an opportunity to be on a bigger stage therefore weakening all non top 5 clubs. Another problem would be the wealthy benefactor that uses one of the also rans as his own franchise, answerable to no-one. This cashed up benefactor would not be seen as a problem at all by the powers that be.
Might be shortsighted but just putting it out there.

Perhaps if teams that qualify could recruit a set number of players from non- qualifying clubs on short term contracts. The advantage for star players in lower ranked clubs is that they can shop themselves around without being accused of disloyalty. It actually gives them more choice.

They used to do it in netball in the early days of the national league and it worked fine. Players like Carissa Tombs could basically pick and choose who she played for, and then go back to Manly for State league.

As for cashed up benefactors - clubs have always been under the influence of their major sponsor. Some more than others. Why should it change?

 

[lily]

What I was getting at was that most fringe players need exposure. They don't get it playing for the lower teams because of an unwillingness of some to show them on television. What stops the player who as you say is on loan not staying at this new club. He now knows that he has been discovered and as quick as you can say ........ he spends the next year in their second grade team.
As for cashed up benefactors I was thinking of somebody new, say somebody from a 2nd division club or somewhere else who wanted to use a struggling club as an exercise in selfish, vain behaviour.

 

[Blackers13]

We've seen what can be achieved in a short period of time when a national body decides to get behind something. Go to a T20 Big Bash and see the thousands supporting pretty much tier 2/3 cricketers in tribal teams. The Western Sydney Wanderers regularly pull 20,000 to home games and the Giants are building and will get bigger when they win. If the ARU is serious about a third tier, fund the clubs who have the existing infrastructure, players, juniors and staff. Crowds at present are poor but will swell if we make local heroes of the boys playing for their District clubs and we get our share of media coverage. The answer is there. It's Shute / Hospital Shield. Just fund it, administer it and let it grow.

 

[en_force_er]

Perhaps if teams that qualify could recruit a set number of players from non- qualifying clubs on short term contracts. The advantage for star players in lower ranked clubs is that they can shop themselves around without being accused of disloyalty. It actually gives them more choice.

They used to do it in netball in the early days of the national league and it worked fine. Players like Carissa Tombs could basically pick and choose who she played for, and then go back to Manly for State league.

As for cashed up benefactors - clubs have always been under the influence of their major sponsor. Some more than others. Why should it change?

I think the answer is a Barbarians side of the players from left over clubs. Get coaches from the Tah's hierarchy to coach this Babas team.

Why? Because this gets players from weaker clubs on a first name basis with influential coaches, thus mitigating the threat of players all lining up at the state's top 2-3 clubs.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Interesting thoughts from Simon Poidevin and Chris Roche about the 3rd tier:
http://www.randwickrugby.com.au/news/2013-news/1956-clubs-the-key-to-third-tier-says-simon-poidevin

Do Poido and Rochie read/contribute to Gaggerland under noms de plume (or is it nom de plumes or noms des plumes?).

Much of what they say in that article is similar to various thread contributions on these boards.

 

[Blackers13]

Do Poido and Rochie read/contribute to Gaggerland under noms de plume (or is it nom de plumes or noms des plumes?).

Much of what they say in that article is similar to various thread contributions on these boards.

That's because it makes sense and is the obvious way to go.

 

[Glen Christini]

Yup - 3rd tier already exists and just needs tweaking, and if they are smart they will work it that every side playing in Brisbane and Sydney at least starts the year with the opportunity to play in any new comp equally. This will ensure equality across the board - if they keep ignoring large chunks of the rugby landscape the game will fade to the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney and die a natural death.

By the way, outstanding contribution and honesty from Andrew Cox, well done mate, would be good to have coffee one day so I can learn something.