Shute Shield 2013

[2bluesfan]

I thought you were Belly, the Parra GM 2BF....

Bzzzt. Nope. Not as good looking as Belly.

 

[2bluesfan]

ARU and NSWRU dont have the $$$ nor the desire to ensure the survival of the Shute Shield. Let's never forget, those two organisations are the epitomy of elitism.

what they'll do though, is gou out and find 8 or 10 multi millionaire dummies to fund clubs in a new 3rd tier comp and leave the sydney, brisbane and canberra comps in limbo.

Warren Livingstone will get what he wants, as money talks. I'm already hearing rumours negotiations are well advanced and include a merger between Balman and Eastwood.......

This forum needs a "Don't like but totally agree" button.
That's an interesting and plausible rumour but would Livingstone be happy in the Shute Shield - I suppose it would be a step towards the mooted third tier.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

This forum needs a "Don't like but totally agree" button.
That's an interesting and plausible rumour but would Livingstone be happy in the Shute Shield - I suppose it would be a step towards the mooted third tier.

I think he meant a merger to compete in his proposed competition.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I think he meant a merger to compete in his proposed competition.

Shouldn't all the teams be in full training for this by now, given that it is a Tier 3 standard competition? Perhaps they all are but are pledged to secrecy until the big launch extravaganza. I don't even know which of the obviously numerous bids for inclusion have been successful.

Sometimes I wish I had up-yours money, or a reputation for having it; and then I could announce I was going to do something like rebuilding the Titanic and become the focus of media attention for at least a day or so.
.

 

[Pete King]

Hearing about randwick pinching emus players does my head in. Seriously wicks, develop your own players FFs.
By the way I hear manly marlins just posted a profit of 200k for this year which gives the sea eagles a run for their money. Gordon are also dusting off the old foundation which is something every club needs to form. Sydney uni's foundation has 2 or 3 mil in it and the income forms part of the club's funding.

As a gordon Supporter did u seriously just throw shit on clubs poaching?

 

[the coach]

I've been away on leave with no Internet so I'm a bit out of date!
Do we know who's coaching Gordon next year yet?

 

[SackRobbie]

I'm already hearing rumours negotiations are well advanced and include a merger between Balman and Eastwood.......

I wouldn't think so. It doesn't make any sense for either of these Clubs to merge. Eastwood are one of the more financial Clubs with a good Board. Balmain have a good Board, appear to have the money to do things so it doesn't make sense but funnier things have happened.

Shouldn't all the teams be in full training for this by now, given that it is a Tier 3 standard competition? Perhaps they all are but are pledged to secrecy until the big launch extravaganza. I don't even know which of the obviously numerous bids for inclusion have been successful.

Sometimes I wish I had up-yours money, or a reputation for having it; and then I could announce I was going to do something like rebuilding the Titanic and become the focus of media attention for at least a day or so.
.

Maybe its not this year they are talking about Bruce. These things take time and I thought I remember seeing that it was for 2014 and going to run after Shute Shield so that's still 20 odd months away?

If it was Sydney Uni's idea then you'd be backing it with all guns but because someone other than the heavies at Parramatta Rd come up with an idea it is poo-pooed.

The Shute Shield is on its last legs. Its flawed and the quality of play is poor. Whether its a version of the old Tooheys New Cup, the Balmain solution, an abbreviated ARC or something else then I think most rugby fans apart from the odd Sydney Uni supporter agree that it needs to be done.

I think something along the lines of the MLS in the US would work. Start small, in small stadiums and once there is a TV deal and some legs then bring in marquee signings to take it to the next level. When was the last time we saw a marquee import at a Shute Shield level? Its just not going to happen. A shorter 6-8 week comp is more a chance of pulling someone like that in.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I wouldn't think so. It doesn't make any sense for either of these Clubs to merge. Eastwood are one of the more financial Clubs with a good Board. Balmain have a good Board, appear to have the money to do things so it doesn't make sense but funnier things have happened.



Maybe its not this year they are talking about Bruce. These things take time and I thought I remember seeing that it was for 2014 and going to run after Shute Shield so that's still 20 odd months away?

If it was Sydney Uni's idea then you'd be backing it with all guns but because someone other than the heavies at Parramatta Rd come up with an idea it is poo-pooed.

The Shute Shield is on its last legs. Its flawed and the quality of play is poor. Whether its a version of the old Tooheys New Cup, the Balmain solution, an abbreviated ARC or something else then I think most rugby fans apart from the odd Sydney Uni supporter agree that it needs to be done.

I think something along the lines of the MLS in the US would work. Start small, in small stadiums and once there is a TV deal and some legs then bring in marquee signings to take it to the next level. When was the last time we saw a marquee import at a Shute Shield level? Its just not going to happen. A shorter 6-8 week comp is more a chance of pulling someone like that in.

From my recollection it was mooted as possibly in August of 2013. Still plenty of time yet.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

The Shute Shield is on its last legs. Its flawed and the quality of play is poor. Whether its a version of the old Tooheys New Cup, the Balmain solution, an abbreviated ARC or something else then I think most rugby fans apart from the odd Sydney Uni supporter agree that it needs to be done..

Poor compared to Super 15? The best provincial comp in the world?
I think your being to absolute here in a bid to fuel your own point and agenda.
The Shute Shield may have some poor teams like the Emus but the competition as a whole is a pretty decent level, this final series was fantastic in my opinion with some great rugby. No one doubts that changes need to be made but to write off the whole comp as pathetic and sub-par is an overstatement. Trim the fat (struggling teams) and regulate player movements a little more and you improve the comp massively. Its never going to be the same as the Currie or ITM Cup, our sporting landscape is to different. People need to accept this and move on.
Learn lessons from the last ARC:
1. A pro(-ish) third tier can't be built overnight.
2. flaunting the established premier clubs is a big no no.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Poor compared to Super 15? The best provincial comp in the world?
I think your being to absolute here in a bid to fuel your own point and agenda.
The Shute Shield may have some poor teams like the Emus but the competition as a whole is a pretty decent level, this final series was fantastic in my opinion with some great rugby. No one doubts that changes need to be made but to write off the whole comp as pathetic and sub-par is an overstatement. Trim the fat (struggling teams) and regulate player movements a little more and you improve the comp massively. Its never going to be the same as the Currie or ITM Cup, our sporting landscape is to different. People need to accept this and move on.
Learn lessons from the last ARC:
1. A pro(-ish) third tier can't be built overnight.
2. flaunting the established premier clubs is a big no no.

I agree on the quality of some of the Rugby played in the Shield this season and on a whole I thought this season was much improved from the 2011 season. However, I do see and somewhat support the rationale behind the move to condense talent in some sort of third tier above club rugby and below Super Rugby. I often watched on and thought "Wow, the quality of Rugby is good" but at the same time ask the question of how much better it could be if the talent was more concentrated.

At the moment we have most of our talent spread across what 30 odd clubs across three competitions. That's too many teams spreading the talent too thin.

As for flaunting the established Premier comps, from the proposal presented previously the point was not to compete with the pre-existing structures. Furthermore, I cannot see the reasons why the existing club setups couldn't co-operate and develop relationships with teams in the the proposed competition. They would be the proving grounds for the talent looking to get a gig in the competition. They could even look to use club grounds and such.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

IMO cutting teams is fraught with danger. For one, it easier to destroy a club than it is to build one. I also think it is a delicate balance at the particpiation level of the game (albeit elite participation) between having greater concentration of players to raise standards versus a wider base that means there is more opportunity. Let's not forget that 1 member of the current Wallabies played Colts for Penrith.

 

[lily]

I wouldn't think so. It doesn't make any sense for either of these Clubs to merge. Eastwood are one of the more financial Clubs with a good Board. Balmain have a good Board, appear to have the money to do things so it doesn't make sense but funnier things have happened.



Maybe its not this year they are talking about Bruce. These things take time and I thought I remember seeing that it was for 2014 and going to run after Shute Shield so that's still 20 odd months away?

If it was Sydney Uni's idea then you'd be backing it with all guns but because someone other than the heavies at Parramatta Rd come up with an idea it is poo-pooed.

The Shute Shield is on its last legs. Its flawed and the quality of play is poor. Whether its a version of the old Tooheys New Cup, the Balmain solution, an abbreviated ARC or something else then I think most rugby fans apart from the odd Sydney Uni supporter agree that it needs to be done.

I think something along the lines of the MLS in the US would work. Start small, in small stadiums and once there is a TV deal and some legs then bring in marquee signings to take it to the next level. When was the last time we saw a marquee import at a Shute Shield level? Its just not going to happen. A shorter 6-8 week comp is more a chance of pulling someone like that in.

Cipriani for the Rats in 2011 and Anesi for 2Blues last year.

 

[qwerty51]

Well if Folau is going to the Tahs, he'll play for a Shute Shield club when not in the 22 won't he?

 

[SackRobbie]

At the moment we have most of our talent spread across what 30 odd clubs across three competitions. That's too many teams spreading the talent too thin.

As for flaunting the established Premier comps, from the proposal presented previously the point was not to compete with the pre-existing structures. Furthermore, I cannot see the reasons why the existing club setups couldn't co-operate and develop relationships with teams in the the proposed competition.

I think thats the point WCR. Existing teams finish their normal comp. A new comp starts after the Super season finishes and for a short period of competition there is a concentration of talent. Existing Clubs would then work with the new franchises.

Cipriani for the Rats in 2011 and Anesi for 2Blues last year.

Cipers agreed but I wouldnt consider Anesi a marquee signing that would bring people through the gates, would you? Remember he played at Hunters Hill the year before when he was dating the Presidents daughter.

Well if Folau is going to the Tahs, he'll play for a Shute Shield club when not in the 22 won't he?

Ha. Somehow I think not. Would be great though.

 

[It is what it is]

Well if Folau is going to the Tahs, he'll play for a Shute Shield club when not in the 22 won't he?

Why not, it was good enough for Lote, Wendell, Tahu, Giteau etc

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I think thats the point WCR. Existing teams finish their normal comp. A new comp starts after the Super season finishes and for a short period of competition there is a concentration of talent. Existing Clubs would then work with the new franchises

That's a big IF in my opinion. I think from Bruce's posts that Uni certainly won't be cooperating in any form. Would make sense in my opinion and would allow for nice little split up of Sydney with North, South, West and Central Sydney with a Canberran team. Clubs need to think about the players and offering opportunities to advance their ambitions.

 

[qwerty51]

Exactly, does live in the West? Would be great for the Two Blues

 

[Bruce Ross]

I wouldn't think so. It doesn't make any sense for either of these Clubs to merge. Eastwood are one of the more financial Clubs with a good Board. Balmain have a good Board, appear to have the money to do things so it doesn't make sense but funnier things have happened.

Maybe its not this year they are talking about Bruce. These things take time and I thought I remember seeing that it was for 2014 and going to run after Shute Shield so that's still 20 odd months away?

If it was Sydney Uni's idea then you'd be backing it with all guns but because someone other than the heavies at Parramatta Rd come up with an idea it is poo-pooed.

The Shute Shield is on its last legs. Its flawed and the quality of play is poor. Whether its a version of the old Tooheys New Cup, the Balmain solution, an abbreviated ARC or something else then I think most rugby fans apart from the odd Sydney Uni supporter agree that it needs to be done.

I think something along the lines of the MLS in the US would work. Start small, in small stadiums and once there is a TV deal and some legs then bring in marquee signings to take it to the next level. When was the last time we saw a marquee import at a Shute Shield level? Its just not going to happen. A shorter 6-8 week comp is more a chance of pulling someone like that in.

Welcome aboard, SackRobbie. It hasn't taken you long to find your feet or to join the band waggon of those who feel it obligatory to point out my not-exactly-concealed affiliation with Sydney Uni whenever they disagree with what I say.

I was pleased to read your report that "Eastwood are one of the more financial Clubs", putting paid to the rumours which constantly circulate about their financial position. Good for them.

I note your assessment that: "The Shute Shield is on its last legs. Its flawed and the quality of play is poor." It's remarkably similar to Warren Livingstone's view that "the Shute Shield's days are numbered". Let's have a look at the initial media report of Mr Livingstone's grand vision: [Key points highlighted; my comments in red]

A KERRY Packer-style revolution of rugby union is being planned, with Balmain Rugby Club in discussions with Channel Ten and Fox Sports about staging a new million-dollar competition. Both Channel Ten and Fox Sports were quick to deny any involvement or interest in the scheme.

Balmain president Warren Livingstone, who has previously brought internationals Sabastien Chabal, Drew Mitchell and Matt Giteau to play for the suburban rugby club, is behind the idea.

The founder of Aussie supporter group The Fanatics wants to establish a competition that bridges the gap between Super Rugby and the Shute Shield.

The eight-team competition would start after the Super Rugby season ended and include double-headers at Leichhardt Oval on Friday nights.

Teams would be made up of Super Rugby players not selected for the Wallabies, emerging young players, rugby league converts and international marquees. Would the Super franchises be prepared to release their players to a presumably unsanctioned competition where they would be playing under different rules [Laws?] designed "to make it more attacking"? And if it is intended to be a higher standard than the Shute Shield, how can you instantaneously blend "Super players","emerging young players" presumably plucked from the Shute Shield clubs, "rugby league converts and international marquees"?

Prizemoney of $1 million would be offered on a "winner-take-all" seven-week competition, which would be made up of Sydney clubs including Balmain. So the only definite participant in a "competition which bridges the gap between Super Rugby and the Shute Shield" would be a club whose highest level of participation thus far has been Second Division Subbies. And 7 of the 8 clubs would get precisely nothing for their participation.

Just as cricket changed when the World Series Cricket was started in 1977 - recently documented in Channel 9's Howzat: Kerry Packer's War - Livingstone said a similar revolution was needed in rugby. A "similar revolution"to World Series Cricket may possibly be "needed in rugby" but surely Mr Livingstone is not comparing his back-of-the-envelope proposal to the Big Fella being prepared to bet the family farm on his cricket revolution.

"This isn't supposed to be anti-establishment, but something new is needed," Livingstone said.

"The reality is something new needs to come along, because the Shute Shield's days are numbered." From the perspective of someone who watches lower division Subbies that may appear to be so, but it will be a long time dying.

Livingstone, who has helped guide Balmain from suburban fifth division in 2005 to promotion to first division next year, said the unnamed competition would look at rule changes to make it more attacking. There should be no reason why the IRB wouldn't be prepared to let Mr Livingstone rewrite the Laws of Rugby.

"It's got to be based on attacking rugby if it's on prime time," he said. "With the rugby league double-headers on Channel 9, we want to offer something to other networks to show." That's the spirit, Warren, attack the Mungoes where they're strongest.

 

[SackRobbie]

Dribble, dribble, dribble.

Haha. That's the spirit Ross - just because I dont agree with your views on Sydney Uni I am all of a sudden someone else that has promoted a different idea to you ie Warren Livingstone? I am not him but if that makes you feel better because its hard for you to believe there is more than one person that disagrees with your view then go ahead and think that.

I get the feeling that you like bullying on here so go ahead, it is water off a ducks back with me.

Its pretty easy to understand that a Shute Shield competition playing 18 rounds without Super Rugby players is flawed. I disagree that its dead as I think it has a place but its not what Australian rugby needs to produce players for Super Rugby. Hence why I think a competition with those players returning from Super rugby is also a good idea.

I know for a fact that Eastwood are financial and pay their players a considerable sum each year. Unlike other Clubs they are not late with payments each season. Disappointing as that may be to you...

 

[SackRobbie]

Why not, it was good enough for Lote, Wendell, Tahu, Giteau etc

Did Dell ever play play SS or in QLD? I cant remember him playing SS. I dont think NSW would risk Izzy in SS if he was to sign.