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I don't want to start a huge blow-up, but results suggest Uni does develop players better than any other club. Maybe it is because they get the best young players in the door, but still they have an outstanding track record of preparing players for higher honours. The fact that they are high on the ladder with what is a very young side speaks volumes to that IMO.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
How good were Eastwood on the weekend? That defence was just outstanding and they gave Uni absolutely no peace at any stage. They also counter attacked brilliantly. Pretty easy to see now why they are undefeated.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
It would be interesting to see the breakdown of which club the Super rugby players came through. Then we'd have some sort of basis for a debate on the value or otherwise of Uni's player development programme. This sort of thing happens in all eras though, where the dominant club/franchise/province produces more players than it probably should at the next level up. Look at the the number of Crusaders who played for the All Blacks who were journeymen at best. I'm sure we could point to some Randwick players in the past who fitted into the same category as well.
U
Upright
Guest
Went to Millner on Saturday with two friends of mine both former Waratahs. We sat among the uni supporters. General feeling was - excellent crowd, Eastwood were great (in both 1 and 2nds) and deserved their wins. Of greater interest - detected siginificant unrest at Uni due to selections (Super 15 players in 2nds are not happy campers), significant unrest at coaches constant references to "when we get our proper team back" as current guys not happy with that view and thirdly if the Uni 10 on Saturday is meant to be the Waratah 10 next year God help us! That said will Uni win the comp - probably but at what cost!!!! Clearly not all roses at the Camperdown Rugby Club.
H
high tower
Guest
Similar arguement to when Salesi left Manly, not sure that Cummins credentials for developing front rowers are better than Mark Holmes and Rick Blacks, the youngsters i have noticed getting a go @ Manly are mostly in Super 15 set ups already, favourite sons of old boy dads, the others barely getting a go unless everyone else is resting - be interested to see how this works out if everyones fit.
The entire hill, that would be the manly third of the hill and we generally ignore you guys, Saturday was no different.
I think we were neighbors Upright
Yeah Foley didn't look a quality starting 10 on Saturday.
He does nice things running to the line in traffic, but doesn't look like he understands game management yet
Eastwood just took their opportunities and played positively on counter, Uni were clueless and slow on counter attack.
Tim Bennetts looked very good & quick. Grant looked pretty good ball in hand & defense, but a bit clueless under the high ball. Locky McCaffrey has put on some bulk and did pretty well and Nic White had a lot of time - a very good sign for a young 9.
Yeah Foley didn't look a quality starting 10 on Saturday.
He does nice things running to the line in traffic, but doesn't look like he understands game management yet
Eastwood just took their opportunities and played positively on counter, Uni were clueless and slow on counter attack.
Tim Bennetts looked very good & quick. Grant looked pretty good ball in hand & defense, but a bit clueless under the high ball. Locky McCaffrey has put on some bulk and did pretty well and Nic White had a lot of time - a very good sign for a young 9.
blindsider
Billy Sheehan (19)
Tilse was playing 2's only 3-4 weeks ago when called up to the 'Tahs....
rugbyvet
Chris McKivat (8)
Im just speculating but perhaps Uni don't develop the best players but for some reason their players seem to get oppurtunities at Super 15 level as apposed to other clubs (for what reason I am not sure but I am sure some people will have their theories) and thus is appears they develop players. Being a Eastwood fan I suggest that if Hugh Perret gets picked over Pat McCuthchon (sorry spelling), Tim Bennets gets picked over Tom Kingston or John Grant gets picked over Peter Betham then they to could shine at Super 15 level and thus people would think Eastwood have a great development program. I would suggest in all three cases the players are of similar ability yet the Uni player gets the contract. The question is why?
W
waves
Guest
Time will only tell amongst selections at Sydney University this week as they have another big clash against Easts who are in some what of the same position as Uni with players coming back, should be interesting to see team lineups.
blues recovery
Billy Sheehan (19)
Had the misfortune to be at the basketball match at Coogee. Referee Moyes should be ashamed of himself for single handily destroying the game. Parra led 40 33 with 25 minutes left. at this point after an all in brawl that followed a Randwick knock on, he somehow finds a penalty for Randwick despite Maxwell throwing the first punch( dont know why I find this surprising ). Then bins the Parra captain for repeated infringements ( was his second of the day ) . Randwick score three tries against 14 men and the penalty count for the last 25 minutes 9 - 1 to Randwick. Even Randwick supporters start laughing at the decisions. Well done randwick for exploiting your opportunities. Parra the game goes for 80 minutes and more than 3 blokes are supposed to tackle.
lily
Vay Wilson (31)
If SU are perceived by S15 coaches as the only place to grab players what stops everybody in the Shute Shield going there. They hated the idea of the ARC and because of some aiding and abetting by the powers they have been able to enter a S15 team in the SS comp. With Hill the new coach at the Rebels game over for transparency in the offering of contracts. Apparently the 4th grade winger goes OK maybe he can be Smiths replacement at the Force.
This is a sarcastic rant but surely concerns should be expressed.
This is a sarcastic rant but surely concerns should be expressed.
I think you are going a bit far Lily. Look at the players drafted into Super sides this year when teams were hit by injuries- Ben Batger, Hugh Perrett, Chris Cottee, Paddy Dellitt, Elvis Taione, Elvis Levi. Not a blue and gold jersey among them.
A lot of the supposed uni bias comes in the acadamies, and is explained by the fact that most top schoolboys end up at Uni. So guys will enter the NSW/ACT/QLD systems at the same time they enter the Uni system. They rise through the ranks and end up in the starting XV. Paddy Ryan is a prime example. Yes there are probably better props than him in the Shute Shield, but he came into the Waratahs straight out of school. He was picked more because of his Aus Schoolboy credentials than his Sydney uni credentials.
I am not suggesting that Uni are not over-represented, because they are. But if you look at the SS now there are no incredibly talented players running around who have been overlooked solely because of their club jersey. And there are no woeful SU players playing S15.
A lot of the supposed uni bias comes in the acadamies, and is explained by the fact that most top schoolboys end up at Uni. So guys will enter the NSW/ACT/QLD systems at the same time they enter the Uni system. They rise through the ranks and end up in the starting XV. Paddy Ryan is a prime example. Yes there are probably better props than him in the Shute Shield, but he came into the Waratahs straight out of school. He was picked more because of his Aus Schoolboy credentials than his Sydney uni credentials.
I am not suggesting that Uni are not over-represented, because they are. But if you look at the SS now there are no incredibly talented players running around who have been overlooked solely because of their club jersey. And there are no woeful SU players playing S15.
K
Keithy
Guest
Plenty of SU players were in Aust Schoolboys teams so they would always be in the picture for S15 selections. I would have thought an ex-Eastwood coach would select Eastwood players ie Bennets over Kingston. Maybe Eastwood supporters should ask Hickey why SU are the preferred club.
Empire
Syd Malcolm (24)
It seems to be a fairly consistent theme regarding the ongoing success of Sydney Uni. Personally, I'm not averse to clubs developing programs and facilities that draw players to join their ranks, with the caveat that these are sustainable in nature. Sydney Uni's programs have brought success over a number of years, and seem pretty sustainable. It's an example that should be replicated across the nation.
My club years ago (I was still in primary school at the time) wasted the better part of nearly 900k on unsustainable expenditure over a few years. Reading the bank statements when cleaning out some filing was certainly sobering. This kind of unsustainable waste has left our club weakened for quite a while (with '08 excepted). The talk of increased player payments and clubs having severe financial difficulties comes across ominously.
That said, the powers above Sydney Uni et al should really be focusing on developing the other clubs and investing in facilities and programs that will facilitate the growth and promotion of Rugby across Sydney, and perhaps, the other competitions around the country. Unfortunately, with the failure of a true third tier, there is going to be a consolidation of top players at the clubs that have, versus those that have not. The majority of those clubs are in Sydney. Until proper management and leadership from above comes along, this will stay the same.
My club years ago (I was still in primary school at the time) wasted the better part of nearly 900k on unsustainable expenditure over a few years. Reading the bank statements when cleaning out some filing was certainly sobering. This kind of unsustainable waste has left our club weakened for quite a while (with '08 excepted). The talk of increased player payments and clubs having severe financial difficulties comes across ominously.
That said, the powers above Sydney Uni et al should really be focusing on developing the other clubs and investing in facilities and programs that will facilitate the growth and promotion of Rugby across Sydney, and perhaps, the other competitions around the country. Unfortunately, with the failure of a true third tier, there is going to be a consolidation of top players at the clubs that have, versus those that have not. The majority of those clubs are in Sydney. Until proper management and leadership from above comes along, this will stay the same.
Slash
Bill Watson (15)
I don't think anyone is denying the Uni programs are effective or the facilities aren't first class. However, the playing field is uneven. All of those facilities at Uni are funded by the tax payers dollar. Bruce will deny this til the cows come home, however the fact of the matter is that federal funds bankroll the creation of and improvements to their facilities. Then, with the aid of the funding, they have the ability to employ expert coaches for specific roles. And good on them for seizing the opportunity. You are correct, this program should be rolled out nationwide, maybe the carbon tax will help pay for it...........
But for mine, the dominance of Uni is killing the competition. Back in my day (god I hate typing that!!) the Shute Shield received great coverage in the print media and the saturday and sunday night 6pm tv news posted the results during their sport round up. Now, the Bowls coverage is larger than the club rugby coverage. Super Rugby killed the media exposure of the club comp, however the dominance of one club is rotting the carcus left behind.
In the mid 60's after St George had dominated for more than a decade, the NSWRL had the courage to change the rules because they could see that the dominance was killing the comp. Its a sad indictment and a serious concern that none of the decision makers at either the NSWRU or the ARU over the years have had the foresight or the balls to make similar decisions.........................
And finally, no decision will ever be forthcoming................look at where JON played!
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
I choose not to respond to the disinformation that is continually spread about Sydney Uni but this outrageous falsehood written by someone who claims an affiliation with the Club should not go unchallenged.
The truth is that no "tax payers dollar
Let me restate that. There has not been one dollar of tax payers' money or federal funds provided for sporting facilities or any other sporting purpose at the University in the decades I have been associated with the Sydney University Football Club or its parent body of which I have been President for over 20 years.
Not one dollar.
I challenge you, Slash, to prove otherwise. Put up or shut up.
S
shinsplits
Guest
Bruce
Please can you spend some money on the pitch. Worst field in Rugby, surely there is something that can be done.
Please can you spend some money on the pitch. Worst field in Rugby, surely there is something that can be done.
B
bmmckeon
Guest
Seriously, Sydney Uni bashing is tiresome. They have best set up and will keep on attracting the lion’s share of top talent, whilst also placing themselves in the best position to sustain this for the immediate future. I think we need to look at the bigger issue, and that is the management of rugby in NSW at both the NSWRU and club level.
Each club in Sydney has legitimate grounds and support to be strong. It’s always baffled me that Gordon has the biggest junior competition in the southern hemisphere (I think this is still the case), but can’t retain even half of them for colts, let alone grade. Some of the clubs have strong licensed premises behind them, but consistently pay over hyped players too much to be mediocre. Southern Districts has all the gear and no idea, and if Penrith could steal some kids away from League (or even retain some that go to play for different clubs), imagine what a different situation a trip out to Nepean would be.
I think everyone is quick to critics Uni whilst failing to look in their own backyards. The NSWRU (as the overarching body) seems to throw good money after bad without really appearing to ask the tough questions of the clubs, and in the professional era (which we have to accept, there is no way you can go backwards), you can’t avoid the tough conversations forever. This is not to say that the situation is hopelessly dire (though there are a few clubs with their backs against the wall), but why can’t we be a bit more proactive rather than reactive when it comes to deciding the best way to build up the rest of the comp to take it to Uni?
Each club in Sydney has legitimate grounds and support to be strong. It’s always baffled me that Gordon has the biggest junior competition in the southern hemisphere (I think this is still the case), but can’t retain even half of them for colts, let alone grade. Some of the clubs have strong licensed premises behind them, but consistently pay over hyped players too much to be mediocre. Southern Districts has all the gear and no idea, and if Penrith could steal some kids away from League (or even retain some that go to play for different clubs), imagine what a different situation a trip out to Nepean would be.
I think everyone is quick to critics Uni whilst failing to look in their own backyards. The NSWRU (as the overarching body) seems to throw good money after bad without really appearing to ask the tough questions of the clubs, and in the professional era (which we have to accept, there is no way you can go backwards), you can’t avoid the tough conversations forever. This is not to say that the situation is hopelessly dire (though there are a few clubs with their backs against the wall), but why can’t we be a bit more proactive rather than reactive when it comes to deciding the best way to build up the rest of the comp to take it to Uni?
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
I am in total agreement with you, shinsplits, and there is a huge amount of effort being put into working out and then achieving a resolution of the problem
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