Selection politics and bias, Gold Squads unfairness etc.

[Almost 2 old]

@quickhands.... The ARU policy is called the "2 year window policy" and it may well seem quite simple for # 6 to 15 ,but, read carefully as # 1 to 5 have another paper to be filled out and another set of criteria to be met. It is quite detailed if done correctly.... As for anyone who complains about competition bias & school politics spare a thought for 2 boys from Wagga who played in the 2011 ACT U 17's and 2012 ACT Aust Schools Championships Team. These boys overcame the politics & bias to make the teams but had the extra tyrany of training and playing in Canberra 39 times over the 2 years(without touring included) which equates to roughly 21500 km's of travel. Their time line was a 1.00pm leave from Wagga ,4.30pm to 7.30pm training in Canberra, 11pm back in Wagga. I know as I was the driver for 1/2 of the journies. The Schools system can be very unforgiving wherever you are and the inability for the ARU and School systems to co habitate in Rugby makes it very difficult, but, if the boys are good enough and have good enough support they will achieve. By the way I am not from a proffesion who have the ability to shift their work hours, I come from the "Noble Trade" of shearers. Incidentally both boys will go well in their HSC. Tell your boys ...."Don't give up on your goals".....

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Almost 2 old, Welcome to Gaggerland.

Good first post. Your km travelled makes my whinging about Sydney traffic seem trivially insignificant.

I wish Almost 2 old jnr the best in HSC and for his future as a footy player.

You can also quote the boys from Vic and WA that are starting to make it into Aust Schoolboys teams as further examples of boys making it from outside the Brissie and Sydney GPS system.

Rugby needs both a healthy NSW and QLD GPS system AND plenty of opportunities for quality athletes from outside those two competitions.

 

[Quick Hands]

@quickhands.. The ARU policy is called the "2 year window policy" and it may well seem quite simple for # 6 to 15 ,but, read carefully as # 1 to 5 have another paper to be filled out and another set of criteria to be met. It is quite detailed if done correctly.. As for anyone who complains about competition bias & school politics spare a thought for 2 boys from Wagga who played in the 2011 ACT U 17's and 2012 ACT Aust Schools Championships Team. These boys overcame the politics & bias to make the teams but had the extra tyrany of training and playing in Canberra 39 times over the 2 years(without touring included) which equates to roughly 21500 km's of travel. Their time line was a 1.00pm leave from Wagga ,4.30pm to 7.30pm training in Canberra, 11pm back in Wagga. I know as I was the driver for 1/2 of the journies. The Schools system can be very unforgiving wherever you are and the inability for the ARU and School systems to co habitate in Rugby makes it very difficult, but, if the boys are good enough and have good enough support they will achieve. By the way I am not from a proffesion who have the ability to shift their work hours, I come from the "Noble Trade" of shearers. Incidentally both boys will go well in their HSC. Tell your boys .."Don't give up on your goals"...

Makes sense that tight 5 have additional requirements and that there would be a more complex set of criteria so that boys are not put into an unsafe environment. I've only ever been involved in assessing backs and loose forwards and have worked off the paperwork provided by competition organisers.

You have my admiration for your efforts at transporting those boys to their games and training sessions. I'm sure that they appreciated it. With that sort of committment to hard work they sound like fine young men who deserve success in sport, career or study.

 

[Gooner]

Perfect start to the JGP at Scott's. Fantastic weather to match the fantastic location. My lad who is the U16s was one of three who trained with the U17s. Good structured program broken into catch pass drills, tackling drills and small sided games.

As per a previous post this program is welcomed since it is provides a pathway to keep playing union if you are not in a private school.

Not sure how viable the U16 village comp will be next year. Discussions with a couple of dads today telling me they will focus purely on school football (GPS CAS) next year. Another father indicated they were close to getting an U17/18 colts comp going next year.

Anyway - look at that next year. The focus now is to do well in the JGP and the Harold Matts training.

Does anyone have any feedback on the NGS program. How often do they train?

What % of GPS / CAS players also play village club football in the U15 / U16 and U17s.

 

[CTPE]

Does anyone have any feedback on the NGS program. How often do they train?

What % of GPS / CAS players also play village club football in the U15 / U16 and U17s.

NGS train 3 afternoons during the week.

Plenty of GPS and CAS boys play village club rugby on Sundays in the U15 and U16 comps but the participation drops off markedly at the U17 level especially among the higher level players with many schools having policies that restrict their 1st and 2nd players playing club rugby. My experience as an observer was that even by U16As level the game was getting much more physical and it was difficult for boys to perform at their peak the very next day in a club game particularly if they were carrying niggling injuries or bumps and bruises not 24 hours old. The jump from 16As to 1st's GPS is physically very significant and Sunday has to be a pure recovery day.

 

[Sydneybra]

Perfect start to the JGP at Scott's. Fantastic weather to match the fantastic location. My lad who is the U16s was one of three who trained with the U17s. Good structured program broken into catch pass drills, tackling drills and small sided games.

As per a previous post this program is welcomed since it is provides a pathway to keep playing union if you are not in a private school.

Not sure how viable the U16 village comp will be next year. Discussions with a couple of dads today telling me they will focus purely on school football (GPS CAS) next year. Another father indicated they were close to getting an U17/18 colts comp going next year.

Anyway - look at that next year. The focus now is to do well in the JGP and the Harold Matts training.

Does anyone have any feedback on the NGS program. How often do they train?

What % of GPS / CAS players also play village club football in the U15 / U16 and U17s.

Interesting you say he was one of the boys from U16s picked to join the U17s group, I was under the impression (judging from what one of the JGS staff members said) they picked the first 3 to even out the numbers and put an U15s NSW player in the age below to do the same thing, do you know if they were doing different drills or everyone was rotating through the same stuff

 

[whatever]

Any list/s of the participants at the Sydney centres, yet?

 

[Gooner]

Interesting you say he was one of the boys from U16s picked to join the U17s group, I was under the impression (judging from what one of the JGS staff members said) they picked the first 3 to even out the numbers and put an U15s NSW player in the age below to do the same thing, do you know if they were doing different drills or everyone was rotating through the same stuff

Didn't say he was picked to train with the U17 (implying he was exclusively picked) just that he was one of three who trained with the U17.

Anyway they appeared to all cycle through the various drills although my lad didn't get a chance to do the drill wearing the padded shirts. They looked pretty good.

 

[Sydneybra]

Didn't say he was picked to train with the U17 (implying he was exclusively picked) just that he was one of three who trained with the U17.

Anyway they appeared to all cycle through the various drills although my lad didn't get a chance to do the drill wearing the padded shirts. They looked pretty good.

Ahh I see what you mean now, yes Scots have some great training equipment to muck around with

 

[Rugby Mum]

Perfect start to the JGP at Scott's. Fantastic weather to match the fantastic location. My lad who is the U16s was one of three who trained with the U17s. Good structured program broken into catch pass drills, tackling drills and small sided games.

As per a previous post this program is welcomed since it is provides a pathway to keep playing union if you are not in a private school.

Not sure how viable the U16 village comp will be next year. Discussions with a couple of dads today telling me they will focus purely on school football (GPS CAS) next year. Another father indicated they were close to getting an U17/18 colts comp going next year.

Anyway - look at that next year. The focus now is to do well in the JGP and the Harold Matts training.

Does anyone have any feedback on the NGS program. How often do they train?

What % of GPS / CAS players also play village club football in the U15 / U16 and U17s.

I didn't realise the boys are chosen in age groups. The regional centres select boys on potential and the 15 s 16 s and 17 s all train together. I believe when these JGS meet to play games they will be mixed up to make teams to play each other... As teams have not been selected but individual players not based on position but ability. But then again there are some 200 plus In the Sydney program's.

 

[CTPE]

I didn't realise the boys are chosen in age groups. The regional centres select boys on potential and the 15 s 16 s and 17 s all train together. I believe when these JGS meet to play games they will be mixed up to make teams to play each other. As teams have not been selected but individual players not based on position but ability. But then again there are some 200 plus In the Sydney program's.

I think you'll find that there are not that many U17s (turned 17 in 2012) in the programme. They run the U16 and U17's together and I think they may do the same for the U14s and U15's depending on the number at each venue. They have in the past also split the players into backs and forwards within the age groups depending on the drills being conducted.

Last year was the first year that they ran a whole of Sydney programme with venues in the North, East and West but no games were conducted at the end of the programme. Prior to that the programme was Western Sydney centric and was conducted under the Junior Gold Regional Talent Centre banner at 5 Western Sydney venues. A weekend camp was held in the middle of the programme at the end of January with games being conducted between the three venues.

I've heard that there may be some games between the three Sydney venues age groups at the end of the 2012/13 programme.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Games are scheduled in the last 2 or 3 weeks from what I hear.


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[Jasdec]

Oh Goody, the second last weekend of the program is the head of the river. I wonder how many particpants will be up for a game the weekend before if they are also in their Schools rowing program?
Approximately 60 boys were at the JGP at Scots last weekend across all age groups and split into 4 groups. 2 groups did one set of drills whilst the other two did different sets. It was an interesting couple of hours watching the skill levels.

 

[whatever]

Oh Goody, the second last weekend of the program is the head of the river. I wonder how many particpants will be up for a game the weekend before if they are also in their Schools rowing program?
Approximately 60 boys were at the JGP at Scots last weekend across all age groups and split into 4 groups. 2 groups did one set of drills whilst the other two did different sets. It was an interesting couple of hours watching the skill levels.

Why would an ARU run program for talented rugby players be concerned about overlapping with an exclusive GPS rowing event?

I feel they would be more concerned about a number of participants having HM and SG Ball league trials on those weekends.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Some schools won't let their rowers go to these programs, presumably for fear of injury.
But also I gather there is some flexibility if a kid can't make some sessions.
On the other hand give the spot to a kid from outside GPS and you've solved 2 issues.


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[Hugh Jarse]

Good plan 99. As well asthe opportunity to give spots to non GPS kids that you have mentioned Inside Shoulder, I have been told the Joeys will not release their boarders to participate in the NGS programmes. Not sure that the same applies to JGP but I think that is also the case.

 

[Jasdec]

And this is the issue that both ARU and Schools have to deal with. The kids in these programs are usually good at something else beside Rugby - League, Basketball, Swimming, Rowing. At 15/16 they are being asked to make a commitment to one sport? I don't think that is feasible and especially for boarders in GPS/CAS who have traditionally been the backbone of their respective Schools sporting programs. A happy medium is desired and the JGP has been trying to find that in allowing kids to miss some sessions ......... with a note from their Mother.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Jasdec they are specifically not being asked to commit to rugby in JGP.

 

[Hugie]

Whilst I feel some small amount of flexibility is needed/OK remember there are a lot of boys who are very disappointed that they didn't get into the JGS. I know one here in the Illawarra who I feel should have got in and is very disappointed (that's life, I think the selectors got the rest right).

The boys who got in have an obligation to those that didn't.

 

[Jasdec]

Jasdec they are specifically not being asked to commit to rugby in JGP.

They are being asked to commit to rugby in JGP. I didn't see any other sports being played last week.
They have been told as a group, and some individually, that if they are not committed to the program over the 16-17 sessions then they should not sign up. Let someone else have a go who is willing to commit the time and effort required.
As for boarders in the program, there are two sessions held before/after they break up for Christmas which would require a trip back to Sydney which may be difficult for the families involved. I assume that this has been worked out with the ARU for the boys that it would affect. (Hugie = Flexibility)