Selection politics and bias, Gold Squads unfairness etc.

[Jasdec]

The ARU have finally got off their arse in the last few years and have tried to entice the talented fringe league players from the CCC and CHS systems.

Anyway, still does not get away from the elitism of a post whinging about the JGS timetable interfering with the "head of the river" and GPS school holidays. WTF.

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism n.
1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2.
a. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
b. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

Dear Whatever, Thought i'd add the above just to make sure we are on the same page. I do believe that you are reading a whole lot more into the posts than what is actually trying to be relayed. My chat was about:
1) How some schools will react to rowers playing full contact rugby the week before the HOR.
2) How JGP participants can make a full commitment when they are boarders and live over 5 hrs from Sydney or have transport difficulties.

I do recognise that the above scenarios will only affect a small portion of kids across the three centres in Sydney and is probably no big deal, however it is a big deal to Junior Jasdec who is spending his first year at a boarding school in Sydney.

In regard to the JGP we declined to submit an application because of the above concerns. It was suprising to receive an offer of a place later by mail and after some discussion around commitment and flexibility, JJ accepted the position and is extremely happy he did.

I am not suggesting or infering for one moment that they move the HOR or provide return airfares, (or should that be change the JGP timetable), so he won't miss three sessions, however my comments were around practicality, logistics and commitment to a new school and were certainly not elitist. I could go on .... and on however i have to get back to work to try and increase my financial resources otherwise JJ will be back in the state system from whence he came.

 

[whatever]

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism n.
1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2.
a. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
b. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

Dear Whatever, Thought i'd add the above just to make sure we are on the same page. I do believe that you are reading a whole lot more into the posts than what is actually trying to be relayed. My chat was about:
1) How some schools will react to rowers playing full contact rugby the week before the HOR.
2) How JGP participants can make a full commitment when they are boarders and live over 5 hrs from Sydney or have transport difficulties.

I do recognise that the above scenarios will only affect a small portion of kids across the three centres in Sydney and is probably no big deal, however it is a big deal to Junior Jasdec who is spending his first year at a boarding school in Sydney.

In regard to the JGP we declined to submit an application because of the above concerns. It was suprising to receive an offer of a place later by mail and after some discussion around commitment and flexibility, JJ accepted the position and is extremely happy he did.

I am not suggesting or infering for one moment that they move the HOR or provide return airfares, (or should that be change the JGP timetable), so he won't miss three sessions, however my comments were around practicality, logistics and commitment to a new school and were certainly not elitist. I could go on .. and on however i have to get back to work to try and increase my financial resources otherwise JJ will be back in the state system from whence he came.

Good luck to JJ, I hope he achieves all his sporting dreams in the future.

My posts were to ensure that readers realised that JGS and NGS were totally separate entities from the GPS (private) schools. An attempt by the ARU to increase the pool of talented players available at the senior level.

You will find that a number of the participants in the squads will become unavailable in January, as HM & Sg Ball trials start in early to mid January and are normally played on Sundays with these comps beginning in early February.

I hope that the numbers are still there to make up composite teams (U14-15, U16-17) to play the other centres.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism n.
1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2.
a. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
b. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

Dear Whatever, Thought i'd add the above just to make sure we are on the same page. I do believe that you are reading a whole lot more into the posts than what is actually trying to be relayed. My chat was about:
1) How some schools will react to rowers playing full contact rugby the week before the HOR.
2) How JGP participants can make a full commitment when they are boarders and live over 5 hrs from Sydney or have transport difficulties.

I do recognise that the above scenarios will only affect a small portion of kids across the three centres in Sydney and is probably no big deal, however it is a big deal to Junior Jasdec who is spending his first year at a boarding school in Sydney.

In regard to the JGP we declined to submit an application because of the above concerns. It was suprising to receive an offer of a place later by mail and after some discussion around commitment and flexibility, JJ accepted the position and is extremely happy he did.

I am not suggesting or infering for one moment that they move the HOR or provide return airfares, (or should that be change the JGP timetable), so he won't miss three sessions, however my comments were around practicality, logistics and commitment to a new school and were certainly not elitist. I could go on .. and on however i have to get back to work to try and increase my financial resources otherwise JJ will be back in the state system from whence he came.

Jasdec - this is a very interesting post.
It appears that some applied knowing that they would not be able to attend 4 sessions. This had nothing to do with boarding or the tyranny of distance but merely with the fact that they play district rep cricket on Sundays.
My only point about that is that, as ever, some in the know get a rails run: i am sure other boys, like yours, did not apply because they thought they could not/should not take a spot from someone who could go to every session.
You were lucky/deserving in that they had obviously spotted your son so he didn't suffer because of you not being "in the know".
This type of inside knowledge being available to some does not lend credibility to the program.

 

[sarcophilus]

Was it an application or invitation process or were some invited to apply was it the same in club land as for schools or did everyone get the note that they were being invited to apply two days before the closing date that wasn't really a closing date as I have seen invitation letters with different closing dates
Mon Dieu! If conspiracy theories are bacteria Mr Pasteur you can use this dogs breakfast as your next incubator.

 

[Quick Hands]

The last couple of pages of posts demonstrate a couple of things:

1. The lack of investment in any sort of infastructure by NSWRU and ARU. They have to use the facilities of private schools because they don't have access to enough comparable facilities of their own.

2. While it is entirely appropriate and welcome that the ARU is running programmes such as NGS and JGS, is it a good thing to be encouraging 15/16/17 year old boys to forsake other worthwhile activities to conentrate on rugby alone?

Point 1 is yet another piece of evidence which points to the total failure of NSWRU to develop and expand the game in Sydney and regional NSW in the past 40-50 years. This extent of this failure has no equal in any major Australian sport and was born from the idea that the private system would do all the work and NSWRU could sit back and do next to nothing. Worked (just) in the amateur era, but chickens are coming home to roost now.

Re point 2: I would also suggest that well-rounded citizens and sportsmen should be exposed to a range of activities during the adolescent years. It's actually good for them to play sport and socialise with boys their own age who don't live and breathe rugby. I'd suggest that part of the reason that professional footballers from other codes display little or no social graces in public is that because from 14-15 years of age they spend most of their time with other footballers and so have no real idea as to how the rest of society functions.

Regardless whether it's the Head of the River or a major cricket tournament or a major surf carnival, there should be some flexibility to accomodate people who show a genuine committment to the programmes, but also are involved in other sports or interests. It's a difficult one - how to maintain the integrity of your programme while at the same time offering flexibility where appropriate.

They'll never get it 100% right, but I hope that they at least try.

 

[whatever]

The last couple of pages of posts demonstrate a couple of things:

1. The lack of investment in any sort of infastructure by NSWRU and ARU. They have to use the facilities of private schools because they don't have access to enough comparable facilities of their own.

2. While it is entirely appropriate and welcome that the ARU is running programmes such as NGS and JGS, is it a good thing to be encouraging 15/16/17 year old boys to forsake other worthwhile activities to conentrate on rugby alone?

Point 1 is yet another piece of evidence which points to the total failure of NSWRU to develop and expand the game in Sydney and regional NSW in the past 40-50 years. This extent of this failure has no equal in any major Australian sport and was born from the idea that the private system would do all the work and NSWRU could sit back and do next to nothing. Worked (just) in the amateur era, but chickens are coming home to roost now.

Re point 2: I would also suggest that well-rounded citizens and sportsmen should be exposed to a range of activities during the adolescent years. It's actually good for them to play sport and socialise with boys their own age who don't live and breathe rugby. I'd suggest that part of the reason that professional footballers from other codes display little or no social graces in public is that because from 14-15 years of age they spend most of their time with other footballers and so have no real idea as to how the rest of society functions.

Regardless whether it's the Head of the River or a major cricket tournament or a major surf carnival, there should be some flexibility to accomodate people who show a genuine committment to the programmes, but also are involved in other sports or interests. It's a difficult one - how to maintain the integrity of your programme while at the same time offering flexibility where appropriate.

They'll never get it 100% right, but I hope that they at least try.

Good post, but the highlighted - c'mon; are you saying rugby union players don't get into or cause trouble. Doubt that.

I would say it all comes down to the personality of the child/player and the parenting they receive. Trying not to boast but my two boys are, what would be described as talented sportsmen but their best friends/mates have never been from the jock group/s but just ordinary kids - some with sport talents and others with zero.

 

[CTPE]

Good post, but the highlighted - c'mon; are you saying rugby union players don't get into or cause trouble. Doubt that.

I would say it all comes down to the personality of the child/player and the parenting they receive. Trying not to boast but my two boys are, what would be described as talented sportsmen but their best friends/mates have never been from the jock group/s but just ordinary kids - some with sport talents and others with zero.

Well said - I know of a couple of boys in the JGS who have also had lead and major supporting roles in their School's 2012 musical and most recent dramatic production.

 

[Gooner]

Good luck to JJ, I hope he achieves all his sporting dreams in the future.

My posts were to ensure that readers realised that JGS and NGS were totally separate entities from the GPS (private) schools. An attempt by the ARU to increase the pool of talented players available at the senior level.

You will find that a number of the participants in the squads will become unavailable in January, as HM & Sg Ball trials start in early to mid January and are normally played on Sundays with these comps beginning in early February.

I hope that the numbers are still there to make up composite teams (U14-15, U16-17) to play the other centres.

My boy has two trials organised for Harold Matts. Both on Saturday with the first on December 15th. This works well with the JGP. He hopes to attend all sessions.

The JGP is really the only legitimate pathway to keep my boy (CCC) playing rugby union. Next years U16 village club rugby scene will not be as attractive as playing league at an elite level.

 

[whatever]

Well said - I know of a couple of boys in the JGS who have also had lead and major supporting roles in their School's 2012 musical and most recent dramatic production.

Great stuff - break the stereotypically view of sportspeople.

 

[whatever]

My boy has two trials organised for Harold Matts. Both on Saturday with the first on December 15th. This works well with the JGP. He hopes to attend all sessions.

The JGP is really the only legitimate pathway to keep my boy (CCC) playing rugby union. Next years U16 village club rugby scene will not be as attractive as playing league at an elite level.

You might find these trials are to reduce the 'train on' squad down to the final 25. They will have trials leading up to the start of the competition - usually, two trials pre the comp officially starting.

 

[Quick Hands]

Good post, but the highlighted - c'mon; are you saying rugby union players don't get into or cause trouble. Doubt that.

I would say it all comes down to the personality of the child/player and the parenting they receive. Trying not to boast but my two boys are, what would be described as talented sportsmen but their best friends/mates have never been from the jock group/s but just ordinary kids - some with sport talents and others with zero.

Not saying at all that rugby players don't do foolish things or behave poorly from time to time as do young men from all walks of life. I think, however, when you look at league and AFL, some of their incidents are on a large scale and appear to have been a result of a mindset within a particular club or clubs. English soccer has experienced similar incidents. I don't think that it exists to that extent in rugby, rowing, cricket, water polo or other less high profile sports at the moment. One of the reasons that I believe that this is so is because players in those sports haven't been separated from society and their peers.

No I didn't go to a private school and I don't think rugby players are any better than anyone else.

I'd think that you'd find that most of the league/aussie rules players who are serial offenders would have had very little contact with non-footballers during their adolescence.

 

[whatever]

Not saying at all that rugby players don't do foolish things or behave poorly from time to time as do young men from all walks of life. I think, however, when you look at league and AFL, some of their incidents are on a large scale and appear to have been a result of a mindset within a particular club or clubs. English soccer has experienced similar incidents. I don't think that it exists to that extent in rugby, rowing, cricket, water polo or other less high profile sports at the moment. One of the reasons that I believe that this is so is because players in those sports haven't been separated from society and their peers.

No I didn't go to a private school and I don't think rugby players are any better than anyone else.

I'd think that you'd find that most of the league/aussie rules players who are serial offenders would have had very little contact with non-footballers during their adolescence.

Might have more to do with the actually number of high profile players in each sport - league and AFL have more (15/16 sides); where as, rugby has 5 teams at that level.

Slightly off the subject, I would guess the St John's boys at Syd Uni play or attempt to play or support rugby.

I will put my hand up and say I'm no clean skin with regard to outrageous behaviour at uni (country) and drinking sessions after games (pre, at and post uni) but putting a female fresher in hospital and not accepting the consquences - WTF. Then attempting to take over the running of the college with their mummy and daddys' help - sweet jesus, at a minimum they should have been expelled from the college and booted up the arse by mum and dad. Hope these guys are not Joey and Iggy's old boys.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Well said - I know of a couple of boys in the JGS who have also had lead and major supporting roles in their School's 2012 musical and most recent dramatic production.

That's always been the way: good way to meet chicks!


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[Inside Shoulder]

Might have more to do with the actually number of high profile players in each sport - league and AFL have more (15/16 sides); where as, rugby has 5 teams at that level.

Slightly off the subject, I would guess the St John's boys at Syd Uni play or attempt to play or support rugby.

I will put my hand up and say I'm no clean skin with regard to outrageous behaviour at uni (country) and drinking sessions after games (pre, at and post uni) but putting a female fresher in hospital and not accepting the consquences - WTF. Then attempting to take over the running of the college with their mummy and daddys' help - sweet jesus, at a minimum they should have been expelled from the college and booted up the arse by mum and dad. Hope these guys are not Joey and Iggy's old boys.

Which schools do you hope they went to?
If they can afford Johns I'm betting it was not the local high school.
This shits been going on for years - in fact it reminds me of grading night!!!
The ARUs attempt to solve the problem, at JGP/ngs level, is to assess the whole individual.
Most of the problem players in league and Union lacked a stable home life and worthy role models: just as in is statistically the case in the community at large.
I understand that if the ARU are seriously interested they have a look at this - but their role can never be primarily pastoral.




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[whatever]

Which schools do you hope they went to?
If they can afford Johns I'm betting it was not the local high school.
This shits been going on for years - in fact it reminds me of grading night!!!
The ARUs attempt to solve the problem, at JGP/ngs level, is to assess the whole individual.
Most of the problem players in league and Union lacked a stable home life and worthy role models: just as in is statistically the case in the community at large.
I understand that if the ARU are seriously interested they have a look at this - but their role can never be primarily pastoral.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Don't know I want them to be old boys from any school and far from criticizing their day to day behaviour (maybe, to justify some of mine and my mates antics while at uni, many years ago); it is the failure to accept the consquences and their attempt (with support from mummy and daddy) to take control and run the show that irks me.

 

[whatever]

Anyone seen the participants list for the NGS and Sydney JGS?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I know of a large number of lads who are in the Sydney NGS and JGP programmes, and have faith in the ARU that they will eventually publish the list/s. In the interim just accept that "they" have more or less got it right regarding who is in and who is out. IMHO I would not make too many changes.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I know of a large number of lads who are in the Sydney NGS and JGP programmes, and have faith in the ARU that they will eventually publish the list/s. In the interim just accept that "they" have more or less got it right regarding who is in and who is out. IMHO I would not make too many changes.

I can actually see publishing the list creating many more issues than it could ever solve

 

[whatever]

I can actually see publishing the list creating many more issues than it could ever solve

It would just be a list/s. Some players might not have applied, some might have refused the offer, some might have wanted a break through summer. Shouldn't be who is in, who is out - therefore, it should not be an issue.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I was speaking to a Dad on the weekend who's boy has been confirmed as being in one of the Shute Shield district academies for the summer development programmes.

The interesting thing is that the family did not apply for a position in the academy for "their precious" and the District has never communicated with the family to say that they were considering that child as an applicant for the academy, nor that they had decided to accept that athlete into the academy (in the absense of any application to join the academy).

So the kid is in the academy despite never applying for it.
The non-application was successful.
The boy and the family do not know that their boy has been accepted into an academy programme thay did not apply for.
The administrators of the academy programme have not contacted the family or the boy to confirm that their choild has been accepted into the District academy despite the family not applying for a position in the academy.

Go figure.

And we wonder why the grass roots are disillusioned with the rhetoric from all levels about what a great job they are doing to grow Heavensgame.