Crazy Legs
Bob McCowan (2)
Best leave it to the experts then! I would be surprised if the ARU kicked it to the kerb, although I read about a Junior Gold Cup recently which aroused my inquisitive nature
- Status
strokeside
Larry Dwyer (12)
All I said was that NGS was cancelled LAST Monday, only. During the rugby season it's only on Moday's. It was just a co-incidence that it was cancelled the day they also cut the acadamies.
strokeside
Larry Dwyer (12)
As I've mentioned on other threads both Pulver and Cheika have recently spoken positively about the expansion of the new INDIVIDUAL state franchise academies.(not run by the ARU) the sooner the better of course, to give the boys a clear, defined state based pathway.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Where?
if you dont start providing answers i'll aks some question about you avatar - like what brand of boat it is?
strokeside
Larry Dwyer (12)
You got me on the Pulver one, but he did also talk it up at the presentation after the recent National Champs. I hope all the boys were listening.
Sideline Eye
Darby Loudon (17)
Rowing boat manufacturers - mmmm, trying to drag the names out of the dim dark recesses from my day... were there racing shell makers called Townsend? Croaker? B&B? And there was one next to the SGS boatshed, opposite Shore's shed, in Wharf St Gladesville, but I just can't drag the name out at this time of night. Anyone...?
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
strokeside
Larry Dwyer (12)
B&B ?? Bed&Breakfast
I think it was S&B, Sargent&Burton. all beauitful timber boats, real craftsmanship.
I think it was S&B, Sargent&Burton. all beauitful timber boats, real craftsmanship.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
B&B ?? Bed&Breakfast
I think it was S&B, Sargent&Burton. all beauitful timber boats, real craftsmanship.
3rd IV and a junior VIII were S&Bs: Wasn't the Don Craig an S&B?
Sideline Eye
Darby Loudon (17)
Yes, that's was it! But what did they call their boats - I don't think it was Towns...? [also, wondering how long the moderator will allow this indulgence into a rowing reverie sideline discussion on a rugby thread...]
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Geo Towns & Son?
Crazy Legs
Bob McCowan (2)
So folks in the know, what is the fate of the NGS & JGS?
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Good question, and I suspect the answer is work as usual for the NGS, and a slight broadening of the criteria for JGS.
Interesting that the interns at ARU have been rather secretive about who is in the the JGS and NGS programmes this year.
Previously the names have been published on the ARU web site. Not so this season.
It makes it a little tricky for all the keyboard selectors and tipsters if the lists are not published. You have to rely on watching who is wearing what track suit at training to work out who is in the programme and who is not.
Interesting that the interns at ARU have been rather secretive about who is in the the JGS and NGS programmes this year.
Previously the names have been published on the ARU web site. Not so this season.
It makes it a little tricky for all the keyboard selectors and tipsters if the lists are not published. You have to rely on watching who is wearing what track suit at training to work out who is in the programme and who is not.
strokeside
Larry Dwyer (12)
During the rugby season Sydney NGS is only on, on Monday's. As far as I know, all up and running last Monday.
If I recall my boys received the invitation for the JGS in late September last year and the person whom I know is involved in the selection process was at our U16's village game on Saturday. He was then off to watch another U16's game a little later. Putting 2 and 2 together it appears the selection process has commenced up this way.
Crazy Legs
Bob McCowan (2)
Still hearing plenty whispers on some major changes the ARU program. From what I understand there will coaches appointed at Zone level for the U15 & U17 to compete in a National style competition and my Secret Squirrel had indicated it is all officially "unofficial". Will this now see the demise of the Sydney Juniors & Country Juniors pathway to a NSW jersey leaving this ARU controlled competition & Schoolboys as the "Pathway to Gold?"
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
So, for an u16 in 2014 in Sydney he would have to compete with u17s for a position in a zone squad limited to 30 places.
Correct?
Similarly, for an u16 in 2015 and thus there is a very real likelihood that kids will have 1 year in and then be left to their own devices and then come back in at u 17.
Correct?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Correct?
Similarly, for an u16 in 2015 and thus there is a very real likelihood that kids will have 1 year in and then be left to their own devices and then come back in at u 17.
Correct?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
The way I read this is that the U16 cohort development will be left to the Schools system (and the Juniors via NSW State Championships) - pretty much the same as now.
Left to their own devices is one way of looking at it from an ARU perspective. Those devices will be the existing mishmash of the Village club system for National champs (with all the loopholes and qualification criteria rorting for the Ghost players), and the NSW SRU Presidents teams, CAS, ISA, CCC, Country Schools, CHS, and AICES development "machines".
Obviously the ARU talent staff will monitor the Junior Gold Cup Boys in the "year off" because they will be invited back into the programme for the U17 JGC in the November of their U16 year.
It seems that NGS will work in parallel with this revised Junior Gold pathway for the "elite", and they will probably have 16 and 17 y/o intakes with the odd 15 year old in the programme as well.
In summary, a boy will be identified in their U14's year for entry into the U15 JGC to be played in the Autumn of their U15 year. They play club and/or school for the U15's with no ARU development in that Summer (unless that are parachuted into NGS). There appears to be a June Long weekend NSWJRU State Champs to look forward to, and Sydney vs Country U15 for the lucky ones. There will be no ARU investment in the boys in the summer of their U15/U16 year.
In their U16 year, the boys will be competing for Juniors State Championships and Schools Championships (not sure what form the National U16's will take - change is in the wind), and for an invitation into the U17 JGC programme for the Summer of the U16/U17 year.
In their U17 year, after the JGC games in the Autumn, the boys will be "lost" to the ARU development (unless they are selected into NGS. Lucky ones may play Opens schoolboys reps in that year (typically Year 11). Some others may play district reps with the NSW JRU State champs and the Sydney vs Country matches, remembering that many if not all of the previous years U16 Ghost players do not turn up in the Juniors U17 championships.
In the summer of their U17/U18 year, there is only NGS programmes run. In the U18 year, there is only Schoolboys reps for development (and NGS). Most of the advanced/elite kids not in AAGPS/CAS/ISA 1st XV programmes will be in the Colts rather than Juniors.
I kind of like the proposal but forsee the following issues:
Cost: $600 plus is still a fair amount for some battler families. I hope that there will be a case to wave fees in the event of genuine hardship, or we will miss out on some good talent.
Timing: The arms race has resulted in 1st XV's training over Summer, and unconfirmed some 16A's. If the intention is to capture the best, then some kids will be forced to decide "Do you want a slot in the school team, or the ARU programme - you can't do both". The answer will be obvious for those Boys with a commercial relationship with their Education providor. Scots have pulled their boys out of the NGS this year. Joeys allows their boys to do JGS but not NGS.
If the intent is to spread the development net wider than the elite Private schools, then this timing choice may achieve its intent.
Competition with other sports. Many kids actually do summer sports, some at an elite level. They will be forced to chose, fun stuff with their mates at Cricket, Not so Little Athletics, Nippers Colts, swimming or whatever vs the JGC.
U17's. With all the development over the summer of the U16/U17 year, I still can't see this resulting in too many kids remaining in the SJRU and Country JRU U17 club competitions. Most of the "elite" will be locked up in the school 1st XV system, and it is well known that the physicality of the 1st XV games is such that many kids can not back up for Club on Sundays like they used to be able to do in the U13's and U14s. The better kids from Non-Rugby schools will continue to play Colts over Juniors at U17 and opens.
Immaturity. The concept is full of sport buzzwords and fancy almost Deansesque gobbledegook, wishes and dreams rather than concrete cold hard facts. It seems to have been cobbled together in a hurry. Given that we are almost at the end of August, and there are milestones that should have been achieved in August, I think that the 2014 JGC will be a Dingoesque "play what is in front of you" arrangment with quite a few changes to be made to the final product for 2015 and beyond.
Numbers in the programme. I think that there are too few positions available for Sydney Metro in the U15 programme, and too many slots in the U17 programme.
This seems to be the death sentence for the Australian JRU, and could even put the State JRU's out of business. Not that that would be a bad thing.
I do like the provision for the smaller states (TAS, NT, and SA) to be involved. This will take years to bear fruit but if it isn't done, there will be no significant growth in these States and territories.
Left to their own devices is one way of looking at it from an ARU perspective. Those devices will be the existing mishmash of the Village club system for National champs (with all the loopholes and qualification criteria rorting for the Ghost players), and the NSW SRU Presidents teams, CAS, ISA, CCC, Country Schools, CHS, and AICES development "machines".
Obviously the ARU talent staff will monitor the Junior Gold Cup Boys in the "year off" because they will be invited back into the programme for the U17 JGC in the November of their U16 year.
It seems that NGS will work in parallel with this revised Junior Gold pathway for the "elite", and they will probably have 16 and 17 y/o intakes with the odd 15 year old in the programme as well.
In summary, a boy will be identified in their U14's year for entry into the U15 JGC to be played in the Autumn of their U15 year. They play club and/or school for the U15's with no ARU development in that Summer (unless that are parachuted into NGS). There appears to be a June Long weekend NSWJRU State Champs to look forward to, and Sydney vs Country U15 for the lucky ones. There will be no ARU investment in the boys in the summer of their U15/U16 year.
In their U16 year, the boys will be competing for Juniors State Championships and Schools Championships (not sure what form the National U16's will take - change is in the wind), and for an invitation into the U17 JGC programme for the Summer of the U16/U17 year.
In their U17 year, after the JGC games in the Autumn, the boys will be "lost" to the ARU development (unless they are selected into NGS. Lucky ones may play Opens schoolboys reps in that year (typically Year 11). Some others may play district reps with the NSW JRU State champs and the Sydney vs Country matches, remembering that many if not all of the previous years U16 Ghost players do not turn up in the Juniors U17 championships.
In the summer of their U17/U18 year, there is only NGS programmes run. In the U18 year, there is only Schoolboys reps for development (and NGS). Most of the advanced/elite kids not in AAGPS/CAS/ISA 1st XV programmes will be in the Colts rather than Juniors.
I kind of like the proposal but forsee the following issues:
Cost: $600 plus is still a fair amount for some battler families. I hope that there will be a case to wave fees in the event of genuine hardship, or we will miss out on some good talent.
Timing: The arms race has resulted in 1st XV's training over Summer, and unconfirmed some 16A's. If the intention is to capture the best, then some kids will be forced to decide "Do you want a slot in the school team, or the ARU programme - you can't do both". The answer will be obvious for those Boys with a commercial relationship with their Education providor. Scots have pulled their boys out of the NGS this year. Joeys allows their boys to do JGS but not NGS.
If the intent is to spread the development net wider than the elite Private schools, then this timing choice may achieve its intent.
Competition with other sports. Many kids actually do summer sports, some at an elite level. They will be forced to chose, fun stuff with their mates at Cricket, Not so Little Athletics, Nippers Colts, swimming or whatever vs the JGC.
U17's. With all the development over the summer of the U16/U17 year, I still can't see this resulting in too many kids remaining in the SJRU and Country JRU U17 club competitions. Most of the "elite" will be locked up in the school 1st XV system, and it is well known that the physicality of the 1st XV games is such that many kids can not back up for Club on Sundays like they used to be able to do in the U13's and U14s. The better kids from Non-Rugby schools will continue to play Colts over Juniors at U17 and opens.
Immaturity. The concept is full of sport buzzwords and fancy almost Deansesque gobbledegook, wishes and dreams rather than concrete cold hard facts. It seems to have been cobbled together in a hurry. Given that we are almost at the end of August, and there are milestones that should have been achieved in August, I think that the 2014 JGC will be a Dingoesque "play what is in front of you" arrangment with quite a few changes to be made to the final product for 2015 and beyond.
Numbers in the programme. I think that there are too few positions available for Sydney Metro in the U15 programme, and too many slots in the U17 programme.
This seems to be the death sentence for the Australian JRU, and could even put the State JRU's out of business. Not that that would be a bad thing.
I do like the provision for the smaller states (TAS, NT, and SA) to be involved. This will take years to bear fruit but if it isn't done, there will be no significant growth in these States and territories.
Rugby Mum
Watty Friend (18)
http://www.sportspeople.com.au/sp/position/PositionDisplay.asp?ID=25089
Positions are currently advertised. Good to see the qualifications required to fill these roles, ensuring the coaching staff is qualified to run these program.
Positions are currently advertised. Good to see the qualifications required to fill these roles, ensuring the coaching staff is qualified to run these program.
- Status