Scotland v Wallabies at Murrayfield 12.40am Mon 25 Nov

[stillmissit]

We should have converted opportunity on at least a couple of ocassions in that first 30 min. BR discussion was not simply Skelton, but what impact that has leaving us without a reconised second primary jumper. I'd suggest that unexpected injuries impacted lineout as selected. Roughly as Skelton came off, Pollard came on, our third choice line out thrower?

The issue is not simply Skelton, but his lack of availability for training let alone the the full tour. In theory what we lose comes with gains - crossing the advantage line (bugger all of that today) and maul destruction (largely avoided by the Scots). You'd expect some more force in the scrum on TH side as well but there was more happening there than simply Skelton.

My response is not at all "anti-Skelton" but a recognition that the Scots found some downsides and the upsides were pretty quiet. In that game.

They planned well for our demise.

 

[Namerican]

So, Skelton is presumably back to La Rochelle now.

I think he's shown easily that he's worth bringing back for the Lions, any nay sayers?

I think he absolutely deserves it, but they need the right balance of players on the field with him.

 

[Namerican]

TSR, When the pack is not supporting the runner at speed and give the Scots 1 or 2 seconds to get into the breakdown before we arrive then you are asking for trouble. We had 3-4 breakdowns where nobody thought to step into the halfback role and they counter rucked us a couple of times. The pack were slow and out of touch, the Scots threw a lot into the breakdown whilst we stayed out a lot. Combine that with our poor defensive structure and their rush defence and we were bound to lose. I had us gone after 10-15 mins, the writing was on the wall.

I agree and this was my main takeaway from the game.

 

[Brumby Runner]

My comment was tongue in cheek, I referred to Hooper the younger, with zero super caps. I assume you actually meant Tom

Well, seeing that Tom is with the squad it was a reasonable assumption

 

[stillmissit]

This game showed up why we need to evolve to move further up the ladder. We have only 2 problems, one is our defensive patterns and the other is our breakdown work. In my opinion Schmidt appears supportive of the first and is working to improve the second.
If Lord Bucket has a good structure that is worth building on, what are the next steps?
Schmidt needs time, which we don't have, to impart this aspect as an automatic response and not something to think about before committing or not. What can he do to make us competitive in the RC and BIL?

 

[TSR]

TSR, When the pack is not supporting the runner at speed and give the Scots 1 or 2 seconds to get into the breakdown before we arrive then you are asking for trouble. We had 3-4 breakdowns where nobody thought to step into the halfback role and they counter rucked us a couple of times. The pack were slow and out of touch, the Scots threw a lot into the breakdown whilst we stayed out a lot. Combine that with our poor defensive structure and their rush defence and we were bound to lose. I had us gone after 10-15 mins, the writing was on the wall.

Sure - but we were worse against England in the first 20. Far worse in fact. But we improved over the course of 80 minutes and were more clinical over the course of the game in key moments when we opportunities.

I actually thought our game resembled England’s in some fashion in that in the first 20 we were winning collisions and dominating possession but then seemed to run ourselves out of steam. Scotland played rope a dope perfectly. The difference between us and England was that at least they took points in the first 20.

 

[TSR]

This game showed up why we need to evolve to move further up the ladder. We have only 2 problems, one is our defensive patterns and the other is our breakdown work. In my opinion Schmidt appears supportive of the first and is working to improve the second.
If Lord Bucket has a good structure that is worth building on, what are the next steps?
Schmidt needs time, which we don't have, to impart this aspect as an automatic response and not something to think about before committing or not. What can he do to make us competitive in the RC and BIL?

I don’t agree we only have two problems. Our set piece work has been inconsistent, as has our mauling - which is crucial at test level - and our kick and kick chase both below par. On the weekend our discipline was poor. Out defensive pattern needs to improve but all three weekends we have missed 1 on 1 tackles we should be making. Our depth again is not where it needs to be - in the England & Wales game our bench came on and made a positive impact. Not so on the weekend.

But, despite the weekend, I think Schmidt has us on the right trajectory and he’s actually made quite a lot of improvement to our breakdown work - despite the Scots being too good there on the weekend and us not adapting to the ref. Schmidt has also been quite vocal about trying to build squad depth and I believe he has made genuine progress there. At the start of the tour most had us at 1 from 4 at best. The Scots were always going to be a tough test and with margins so fine the lack of prep work this week as well as the 2 late withdrawals and early injury are going to impact performance.

Look forward to this weekend. Ireland will be very tough but I’m hopeful we’ll see a strong bounce back.

 

[Strewthcobber]

What can he do to make us competitive in the RC and BIL?

Main thing he can (or can't) do is keep the first team on the paddock.

The same lessons of past Nov tours. Our top team can be competitive. If we rest players, or have injuries, we can't.

Kellaway having to attempt 22 tackles in the mid-field when it's clearly not his game is a case in point. Wrong player in the wrong position.

Re Skelton....same issue. For various reasons we took to the field against Scotland without a lineout caller. That's the real issue

 

[stillmissit]

but we were worse against England in the first 20

I disagree, I thought our first 20 was more like the first 20 v AB's before we fell away. The advantage we had was the English were poor at the breakdown and we were aggressive and committed.
In the Scotland game I expected the focus and attitude would change after halftime but they continued in the same fashion. I think there was nothing we could do to counter their rush D, countered by poor chip kicks and excellent breakdown work.
Ireland has been given a simple formula to beat us next week and Schmidt would know it. It will be very interesting how he approaches this game as he knows them well. I am thinking very close, possibly a win.

 

[stillmissit]

I don’t agree we only have two problems. Our set piece work has been inconsistent, as has our mauling - which is crucial at test level - and our kick and kick chase both below par. On the weekend our discipline was poor. Out defensive pattern needs to improve but all three weekends we have missed 1 on 1 tackles we should be making. Our depth again is not where it needs to be - in the England & Wales game our bench came on and made a positive impact. Not so on the weekend.

But, despite the weekend, I think Schmidt has us on the right trajectory and he’s actually made quite a lot of improvement to our breakdown work - despite the Scots being too good there on the weekend and us not adapting to the ref. Schmidt has also been quite vocal about trying to build squad depth and I believe he has made genuine progress there. At the start of the tour most had us at 1 from 4 at best. The Scots were always going to be a tough test and with margins so fine the lack of prep work this week as well as the 2 late withdrawals and early injury are going to impact performance.

Look forward to this weekend. Ireland will be very tough but I’m hopeful we’ll see a strong bounce back.

Agree that we have issues in scrum consistency, maul defence and attack and agree with most you write in this post.
The things you highlight we have been good at sometimes and therefore we know we can do it we just have to become more consistent.
Our defence has never been good and our breakdown work has never been near the top teams. That is why I think the D and BD are the two important things, in the D we must change the structure and in the BD learn how to compete across the whole squad as there is not enough time to leave it up to forwards.
Re D, someone could have been a mate of mine, noted that our D has too many elbows.

 

[HogansHeros]

Finally going to give my 2 cents now the hysteria seems to have settled a bit.

First 20 looked like we were continuing the good form from the last 2 games. However as others have stated we really needed to convert the opportunities we had.
I think if we stuck to that game plan of sustaining preassure we may have been in a better spot come half time. However we decided to change tactnand just go with 3 phases and aimlessly kick behind and pray we get a bounce. Dont remember it working once, yet we stuck at that plan for the rest of the game.

Sure the ref didnt help us build pressure as we had the last 2 games, but certainly cant be the one we blame. As others stated, we got frustrated with the calls, bought into the niggle and all discipline went out the window, and we just let the scots in, defending for the majority of the game.

Not sure whose call it was to change our exit stratergy (maybe because the centres changed?) But i really had enjoyed watching the fellas bringing back the running rugby, even from inside our 22. I think we attempted it once, then we got caught up in the kick battle with Finn, which was ultimately lost.

Lots of talk about how much we missed Mcreight, but not sure with the style of footy we played he could have had a huge impact. Thought Tizzano certainly put in a decent shift.

Cant see Kellaway being dropped after 1 game where he played a good chunk out of position. Was only the other week everyone was singing his praises. If certain people on here were selectors there would be no one left in Aus to play for the Wallabies, cant bin everyone after a poor showing. Hopefully we can keep building the combinations within this squad.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yes, understand the law regarding the kick putting him onside. Just curious at the scenario for 10.11 which comes into effect when you are put onside. What is this accounting for then?

Are you retiring with undue delay if you are aware of a kick across the field.

Tuipulotu was retiring. He never got there and would have been offside if McDermott hadn't kicked but he did.

I think that 10.11a law about "Fails to retire without undue delay and benefits from being put onside in a more advantageous position;" would be more about someone who is offside not making any attempt to get back onside because they know their team will kick it a phase or two later and someone will run them onside. This is the scrum/lineout/maul equivalent to 10.1.d that you can't loiter in an offside position in open play.

 

[JRugby2]

Is 10.11 not a consideration? Because if you're genuinely retiring wouldn't your back be to the kick in the first place?

a. Fails to retire without undue delay and benefits from being put onside in a more advantageous position

Irrespective it wasn't a great kick.

Maybe? This law can loosely be translated to

10.11. Don't take the piss

Merely moving backwards is enough here, especially with the context of a hoove down field followed by a line break that collectively shifts the pill 75m up field in 10 seconds. The fact that Sione is remotely close would be enough to have a solid argument that he wasn't retiring without undue delay

 

[stillmissit]

Maybe? This law can loosely be translated to

10.11. Don't take the piss

Merely moving backwards is enough here, especially with the context of a hoove down field followed by a line break that collectively shifts the pill 75m up field in 10 seconds. The fact that Sione is remotely close would be enough to have a solid argument that he wasn't retiring without undue delay

I think this argument is done and the law is clear enough considering it is rugby.

 

[wamberal99]

Tom Wright has been our best attacking weapon for yonks. He seemed to be off his game, for some reason.

 

[Tomthumb]

Tom Wright has been our best attacking weapon for yonks. He seemed to be off his game, for some reason.

We never had any sustained front foot ball for the backs to work off

 

[Derpus]

We never had any sustained front foot ball for the backs to work off

I thought we did, actually. We had multiple opportunities in their half where we kept it tight and made good gainline ball. We just didn't use any variation after that and it became easy to defend.

We really only looked to attack through the backs from our own half and then it was typically just a midfield chip. I think Ikitau also did a nothing kick through in their 22 once.

It was clearly a tactic because we didn't do it against either Wales or England. Guessing they probably won't look to rely on the chip kick quite so heavily in future.

 

[HogansHeros]

I thought we did, actually. We had multiple opportunities in their half where we kept it tight and made good gainline ball. We just didn't use any variation after that and it became easy to defend.

We really only looked to attack through the backs from our own half and then it was typically just a midfield chip. I think Ikitau also did a nothing kick through in their 22 once.

It was clearly a tactic because we didn't do it against either Wales or England. Guessing they probably won't look to rely on the chip kick quite so heavily in future.

100%, It was a tactic we used a couple times against england with JAS securing it back again. We decided it was our best option for some reason even when JAS wasnt on the field.... looked like they had forgotten what had won them the last 2 games.

 

[stillmissit]

Derpus, those chip kicks were killers and was our only defence against their rush defence but our pack were done like a dinner. Some good gainline wins but nothing came of them.

 

[Tomthumb]

I thought we did, actually. We had multiple opportunities in their half where we kept it tight and made good gainline ball. We just didn't use any variation after that and it became easy to defend.

We really only looked to attack through the backs from our own half and then it was typically just a midfield chip. I think Ikitau also did a nothing kick through in their 22 once.

It was clearly a tactic because we didn't do it against either Wales or England. Guessing they probably won't look to rely on the chip kick quite so heavily in future.

Really? Apart from the first 15 minutes and the last 10 minutes when the game was well and truly over, Scotland was well and truly in control of territory and ruck speed

Only time the Wallabies got down there in the middle 60 was from penalties and then they proceeded t either lose the lineout or get held up and turned over