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Scotland v Wallabies at Murrayfield 12.40am Mon 25 Nov

LeCheese

LeCheese

Greg Davis (50)
TSR said:
I have pretty limited experience here but my experience is even when you get a stinger it is pretty obvious the issue is in your shoulder not your wrist.
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You can get pretty gnarly burning/tingling in the hand and wrist - so even if his whole arm went dead, the worst of the pain might've been in his hand/wrist.
 
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Brumby Runner

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
Derpus said:
Care to expand? He even took a lineout last match. Yeah I guess we can't have all our carry oriented players in one starting line up but I think it'd be crazy not to include him in the squad.
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I gave my reasons a page or two back. You are welcome to go back and have a read D.

TLDR he caused our lineout to be totally inadequate and the loss of possession, territory and game flow cost us the game.
 
Derpus

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Brumby Runner said:
I gave my reasons a page or two back. You are welcome to go back and have a read D.

TLDR he caused our lineout to be totally inadequate and the loss of possession, territory and game flow cost us the game.
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He caused it alone? the other 7 forwards were also part of that line out.
 
Derpus

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Seems crazy to blame the failure of an 8 man operation on one bloke. Its an obvious weakness of his but its not his fault we didn't set up the team to deal with it.

Far as I could tell Schmidt was experimenting to see if it would work with Wilson, Valetini and Skelton - it didn't.
 
Brumby Runner

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
Derpus said:
Seems crazy to blame the failure of an 8 man operation on one bloke. Its an obvious weakness of his but its not his fault we didn't set up the team to deal with it.

Far as I could tell Schmidt was experimenting to see if it would work with Wilson, Valetini and Skelton - it didn't.
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As I said above D, go back to see my reasons for saying the lineout troubles were all Skelton's issues.
 
Derpus

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Brumby Runner said:
Have to disagree with your takes on the lineout Wilson. Skelton had a massive detrimental affect for us. The Scots just looked where he was standing in the lineout and threw it there as they knew they would be uncontested. On our own throw, they made sure they had their best jumpers competing with LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and Wilson (which to be fair wasn't hard for them - Wilson definitely is not a premier lineout jumper) because they knew we were not going to Skelton. The result was that for the whole time Skelton was on the field, the Scots had clean ball from their lineouts and we had rubbish if we even won possession. That situation led to the second part of the first half and well into the second half, we were starved of possession. That was where the game was won and lost.

Incidentally, after Frost replaced Skelton, we actually won a couple of their lineout throws.

Otherwise, Skelton was little more than a penalty magnet. From my recollection, he gave away three very early penalties in the first half which gifted territory, possession and flow of the game to the Scots. And for all of his reputation at the maul, we lost possession from our rolling maul on at least two occasions while Skelton was on the field. Cummins made a mess of our mauls while Big Willy never had an impact.
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I mean... if it were that simple surely the hooker would just throw it to where a prop is standing, no? Or Valetini for that matter. I doubt Skelton was tasked with marking their primary jumpers.

I agree that LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and Wilson were heavily marked but that seems a selection issue more than anything.
 
Dctarget

Dctarget

Tim Horan (67)
Brumby Runner said:
Well, I would but only after Frost, Williams, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), and then preferably in the back row rather than as a Lock. But yeah, Dct, you are getting closer to the best combinations for the Wallabies.
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My comment was tongue in cheek, I referred to Hooper the younger, with zero super caps. I assume you actually meant Tom :)
 
molman

molman

Jim Lenehan (48)
JRugby2 said:
Moment Tate kicks it, hes onside
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Is 10.11 not a consideration? Because if you're genuinely retiring wouldn't your back be to the kick in the first place?

a. Fails to retire without undue delay and benefits from being put onside in a more advantageous position

Irrespective it wasn't a great kick.
 
Proud Pig

Proud Pig

Tom Lawton (22)
Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that they wanted to see how both the defensive and attacking mauls went with Skelton, Valetini and Wilson in the lineup. Our maul defense would have probably been really strong but that is precisely why Scotland decided not to go to the maul that often on their ball. With those three in the team the Boks are about the only team that would still fancy their maul as a primary attacking weapon. Then with only one front line jumper we did not get enough clean ball on our lineout to use the maul.
If Skelton is in we need a second primary jumper in the back row not just a secondary support jumper like Wilson. Wilson is fantastic as a third jumper in the lineout and has given us really good service in the earlier tests. If you only have one primary jumper in the side it is far too easy for the opposition to deny you clean possession at your lineout.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
molman said:
Is 10.11 not a consideration? Because if you're genuinely retiring wouldn't your back be to the kick in the first place?

a. Fails to retire without undue delay and benefits from being put onside in a more advantageous position

Irrespective it wasn't a great kick.
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Following on from 10.9

A player who is offside at a ruck, maul, scrum or lineout remains offside, even after the ruck, maul, scrum or lineout has ended.

10.10.c - An opposition player kicks the ball.

So as soon as the ball is kicked by McDermott it put Tuipulotu onside.

If he'd just hurled a pass out in that direction towards Kellaway we would have surely scored or got a penalty try and yellow card for Tuipulotu preventing the try. Tuipulotu was massively offside and Wright was coming through in support.
 
stillmissit

stillmissit

Peter Johnson (47)
Derpus said:
I mean... if it were that simple surely the hooker would just throw it to where a prop is standing, no? Or Valetini for that matter. I doubt Skelton was tasked with marking their primary jumpers.

I agree that LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and Wilson were heavily marked but that seems a selection issue more than anything.
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We had 3 jumpers in the lineout Wilson, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and Valetini. The majority were thrown to Wilson and anyone could have told you where it was going mostly. It improved slightly when Frost came on but hardly a dominant display of lineout work.
 
Strewthcobber

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
stillmissit said:
We had 3 jumpers in the lineout Wilson, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and Valetini. The majority were thrown to Wilson and anyone could have told you where it was going mostly. It improved slightly when Frost came on but hardly a dominant display of lineout work.
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What do you reckon the combined experience of lineout calling at professional rugby level is amongst those three (add in skelton too!)?
 
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