Scotland v Wallabies at Murrayfield 12.40am Mon 25 Nov

[stillmissit]

Have to disagree with your takes on the lineout Wilson. Skelton had a massive detrimental affect for us. The Scots just looked where he was standing in the lineout and threw it there as they knew they would be uncontested. On our own throw, they made sure they had their best jumpers competing with LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and Wilson (which to be fair wasn't hard for them - Wilson definitely is not a premier lineout jumper) because they knew we were not going to Skelton. The result was that for the whole time Skelton was on the field, the Scots had clean ball from their lineouts and we had rubbish if we even won possession. That situation led to the second part of the first half and well into the second half, we were starved of possession. That was where the game was won and lost.

Incidentally, after Frost replaced Skelton, we actually won a couple of their lineout throws.

Otherwise, Skelton was little more than a penalty magnet. From my recollection, he gave away three very early penalties in the first half which gifted territory, possession and flow of the game to the Scots. And for all of his reputation at the maul, we lost possession from our rolling maul on at least two occasions while Skelton was on the field. Cummins made a mess of our mauls while Big Willy never had an impact.

Why didn't we use Valetini more, he did a decent job last week. Skelton's work is worth having him there in every game I have watched him play. I guess Wilson was calling the lineout and it was so obvious he was going to get it. I thought the lineout went better without Wilson last week. Mind you he put in a huge shift in other areas.

 

[stillmissit]

Its less about what the tacklers do, more so the other arriving players competing at the breakdown, no?

Tacklers not rolling is pretty heavily scrutinised and we saw a few PKs both side of the ball today for this.

The poor speed of support of the tackled player was a major reason their breakdown work was superior to ours.

 

[Brumby Runner]

That's a bit harsh given he plays very little 13.

He missed most of them while playing on the wing. AK (Andrew Kellaway) had shown improvement in his game lately, but this one was really a shocker.

 

[Namerican]

I thought the biggest difference was the Aussie forwards being well off the mark in open play. The support and cleanouts were dreadful and they also looked slow as molasses on defense. McReight was missed massively. Lots of ball carriers that did well, but BPA, Wilson, Carlo, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Williams, all got throughly outworked. If you are going to have a giant lump like Skelton out there, who is essentially a third prop in terms of mobility, then they need the other forwards to get around and do the dirty work. And that just wasnt the case.

 

[Derpus]

I thought the biggest difference was the Aussie forwards being well off the mark in open play. The support and cleanouts were dreadful and they also looked slow as molasses on defense. McReight was missed massively. Lots of ball carriers that did well, but BPA, Wilson, Carlo, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Williams, all got throughly outworked. If you are going to have a giant lump like Skelton out there, who is essentially a third prop in terms of mobility, then they need the other forwards to get around and do the dirty work. And that just wasnt the case.

I thought the loss of Williams right before the game was a big blow here. I don't really rate LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) as a starter at the moment.

 

[Slim 293]

I thought the biggest difference was the Aussie forwards being well off the mark in open play. The support and cleanouts were dreadful and they also looked slow as molasses on defense. McReight was missed massively. Lots of ball carriers that did well, but BPA, Wilson, Carlo, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Williams, all got throughly outworked. If you are going to have a giant lump like Skelton out there, who is essentially a third prop in terms of mobility, then they need the other forwards to get around and do the dirty work. And that just wasnt the case.

Williams was just completely missing...

 

[KOB1987]

Ikitau/Flook seems the option but ... yeah. Damn.

There's also still this:

"He's got a pretty numb arm, but we're hopeful it's not too bad," Schmidt said.

"But losing Joseph early didn't help."

Sua'ali'i didn't have his arm in a sling after the game, a positive sign for the 21-year-old who has been a revelation for Schmidt and the Wallabies through three Tests in the UK.

Maybe it was just a bad stinger. Same thing happened to him in one of the Roosters' finals (I think) and he played the following week.

 

[emuarse]

I thought the biggest difference was the Aussie forwards being well off the mark in open play. The support and cleanouts were dreadful and they also looked slow as molasses on defense. McReight was missed massively. Lots of ball carriers that did well, but BPA, Wilson, Carlo, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Williams, all got throughly outworked. If you are going to have a giant lump like Skelton out there, who is essentially a third prop in terms of mobility, then they need the other forwards to get around and do the dirty work. And that just wasnt the case.

I suppose Williams did get thoroughly outworked seeing as he did'nt play today.

 

[Derpus]

There's also still this:

"He's got a pretty numb arm, but we're hopeful it's not too bad," Schmidt said.

"But losing Joseph early didn't help."

Sua'ali'i didn't have his arm in a sling after the game, a positive sign for the 21-year-old who has been a revelation for Schmidt and the Wallabies through three Tests in the UK.

Maybe it was just a bad stinger. Same thing happened to him in one of the Roosters' finals (I think) and he played the following week.

He seemed keen to punch on with Sione so figured it might not be broken. Broken wrist would hurt like a motherfucker.

 

[LeCheese]

Maybe it was just a bad stinger. Same thing happened to him in one of the Roosters' finals (I think) and he played the following week.

It'd be pretty impressive to go from being a possible break to 'just' a stinger - fingers crossed

 

[Dctarget]

Eh, grand slam is over, let him rest. Throw in Flook.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Williams was just completely missing...

Williams aside, I think his comments on BPA, Tizzano and LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) particularly are on point. Wilson was in everything but still finds it difficult to break thge line and his handling could be better.

The game changer was Tate's hairbrained cross field kick to Tuipoluto.

There is still a big difference in the territory gains we make from penalties as compared with most of our opponents. It wasn't until the last couple of minutes in the game that Donaldson made about 50m with a penalty kick. Otherwise, in most games, we are lucky to average 20m territory gain. Puts us at a disadvantage right from the get go.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I'm not that unhappy with the loss. I thought we looked tired, unprepared and ill-disciplined which all tracks with the lead up we had into the match. I just don't think we currently have the squad depth to consistently put in 80%+ performances week after week.

We definitely got on the wrong side of the ref but I think that had a lot more to do us than the ref, who was pedantic but fairly consistent.

Tate McDermott should be shot into the fucking sun via giant Dismal cannon for that kick. We were still potentially in the battle at that point and that would have been a huge momentum shift. God damn.

he had ample options. a tired forward to his right and tired retreating forwards coming behind him. i thought a jink to the right and he probably could've got in. he has great pace or just hold your head and attach left closer in. that was try time and he butchered it. Overall tho, their defense was excellent and their attack was quite impressive. Finn Russell is very bloody good

I think if we have proper training, don't have those withdrawals and we perform a bit better but overall i think they had our number. we never really looked threatening in attack cause they shut us down quite well. was surprised we didnt take some of the early points on offer though. was 6 points we let go by going for the try zone - all else equal we're leading at half time if we take those

 

[Tomthumb]

I reckon that's a little bit unfair on Kellaway. He is being asked to play a role he hasn't done much of, and isn't really suited to, and he did make 15 tackles.

That he was asked to attempt 22 tackles total shows the Scots were really targeting him in our midfield.

We need one of our wingers to be physical enough to defend in close in the line, and there doesn't really seem like there's a good option there at the moment

Most of them weren't a positioning issue though, they were just really poor efforts

His effort on Tuipolotu's try was especially poor

 

[Tomthumb]

Eh, grand slam is over, let him rest. Throw in Flook.

A win over Ireland would be massive for this group and for their confidence going forward. Grand Slam or not this is a huge Test match, should be all hands on deck IMO

 

[chasmac]

Impressions;
1) Defense / Defensive system was the biggest let down today. It might be worth changing to a rush defensive pattern next year.
2) Lineouts were pretty crazy. For both teams.
3) They were extremely good in the rucks. Did we miss McReight too much?
4) Finn Russell thrived on our defensive pattern and the ruck dominance his forwards won him.
5) Very high intensity game - even when it went from set piece to set piece in the 3rd quarter.
6) Hard to criticize the effort, execution was off and some referee management. Also defense was major problem
7) Scotland were bloody good.

 

[stillmissit]

Williams aside, I think his comments on BPA, Tizzano and LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) particularly are on point. Wilson was in everything but still finds it difficult to break thge line and his handling could be better.

The game changer was Tate's hairbrained cross field kick to Tuipoluto.

There is still a big difference in the territory gains we make from penalties as compared with most of our opponents. It wasn't until the last couple of minutes in the game that Donaldson made about 50m with a penalty kick. Otherwise, in most games, we are lucky to average 20m territory gain. Puts us at a disadvantage right from the get go.

Agree with all of this BR. We were out of this game for the most part. I thought the game was lost after 15 mins and my thoughts never changed.

Here we go again with Lolesio, as soon as the game gets tough he looks like a rabbit in the headlights, his eyes are darting around everywhere and it is obvious he has lost his composure.

 

[Agent]

Could we see Wright at 12?

Wright is finally hitting his straps at 15 and I see little point in moving him when we have other good/ok/reasonable options.

 

[LeCheese]

Wilson was in everything but still finds it difficult to break thge line and his handling could be better.

Turns out his kicking's pretty good though

 

[Strewthcobber]

Most of them weren't a positioning issue though, they were just really poor efforts

His effort on Tuipolotu's try was especially poor

I think that was a position issue. He didn't realise the ball was going over the top until way too late, he should be advancing as soon as Tuipolutu does and hitting him as soon as he gets the ball. That's his job in that setup. He just doesn't have the experience to make that play