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Scotland v Wallabies at Murrayfield 12.40am Mon 25 Nov

JRugby2

Bob Loudon (25)
One thing I thought Scotland did a lot and got away with (I think we did it a bit too but just not as successfully) is have tacklers roll into the 9 channel rather than to the side. Gordon was doing hurdles out there.
The tacklers should absolutely be pinged, but for arriving players this is pretty consistently let go by all refs in professional rugby. Usually goes along the lines of provided your entry and contact is legal, where you "naturally" fall post contact in the ruck contest is fair game. Off feet at the breakdown almost always penalised only if the player seals the ball in a counter ruck or if under pressure to retain possession.

Shouldn't be however as we see across the board players are good enough to twist and contort themselves anywhere that makes life difficult for nines.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
The tacklers should absolutely be pinged, but for arriving players this is pretty consistently let go by all refs in professional rugby. Usually goes along the lines of provided your entry and contact is legal, where you "naturally" fall post contact in the ruck contest is fair game. Off feet at the breakdown almost always penalised only if the player seals the ball in a counter ruck or if under pressure to retain possession.

Shouldn't be however as we see across the board players are good enough to twist and contort themselves anywhere that makes life difficult for nines.
I mean it was more than this. It was literally the tackling playing rolling into the 9 (ie often towards the Wallabies goal line) rather than to the side.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
We don’t do it as much because we try to pilfer more often. We need the space clear so we can present a clean picture to the ref. If you’re not trying to jackal, but just slow down and set your defence it’s not such a problem.
Probably not the strategy without McReight in the team.
 

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
What are our squad options at 12/13 now? He could be there again.
The big question is probably whether or not they want to keep running Ikitau at 12. If they do then it's probably 12 Ikitau and 13 Flook, if not it's 12 Stewart and 13 Ikitau. I wouldn't expect to see Kellaway line up at 13 from the start next week.
 

stillmissit

Peter Johnson (47)
We don’t do it as much because we try to pilfer more often. We need the space clear so we can present a clean picture to the ref. If you’re not trying to jackal, but just slow down and set your defence it’s not such a problem.
Not sure I understand you. Are you suggesting we put less players in the breakdown and set our D to give the ref a clear view?
If you are then I totally disagree. 'Lose the breakdown lose the game', could have been the headline on this test. Ditto the D .. BTW
 

Dctarget

Tim Horan (67)
Not sure I understand you. Are you suggesting we put less players in the breakdown and set our D to give the ref a clear view?
If you are then I totally disagree. 'Lose the breakdown lose the game', could have been the headline on this test. Ditto the D .. BTW
Our tacklers roll to the side quicker, presenting the ref a cleaner picture for when our jackler goes in to pilfer the ball.

if our tacklers instead stayed to slow down the opposition 9, as the Scots did today, we wouldn’t be able to effect so many pilfers because the ref would say we weren’t clearing the tackle area.
 

stillmissit

Peter Johnson (47)
but you got to set them up for success
I was concerned when we couldn't train but the Scots could apparently. Losing those guys doesn't help, we seem to be losing guys in final training runs or is that a coincidence?
I think we are still fragile when things don't go our way. Need to learn to fight harder and smarter. A
Can someone teach these guys that if the ball is at the back of the breakdown and the 9 is not there - step in and clear the ball or set up another ruck. Happened several times very frustrating.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
Not sure it's quite that definitive, the loss of Faessler so close to kick off in a week where we had little opportunity to train likely had as much or more impact on our lineout. That's pretty clear to me in the fact that are lineout still struggled after Skelton left the field.

I would probably be looking at Frost as his partner in the future though, he has much more capacity to get up above the competition and is better over 80 than Salakaia-Loto.

Edit: Losing Williams so close to kick off won't have helped the lineout either. We aren't a settled enough side to roll with these sudden changes and a disrupted build up all rolled into one.
Have to disagree with your takes on the lineout Wilson. Skelton had a massive detrimental affect for us. The Scots just looked where he was standing in the lineout and threw it there as they knew they would be uncontested. On our own throw, they made sure they had their best jumpers competing with LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and Wilson (which to be fair wasn't hard for them - Wilson definitely is not a premier lineout jumper) because they knew we were not going to Skelton. The result was that for the whole time Skelton was on the field, the Scots had clean ball from their lineouts and we had rubbish if we even won possession. That situation led to the second part of the first half and well into the second half, we were starved of possession. That was where the game was won and lost.

Incidentally, after Frost replaced Skelton, we actually won a couple of their lineout throws.

Otherwise, Skelton was little more than a penalty magnet. From my recollection, he gave away three very early penalties in the first half which gifted territory, possession and flow of the game to the Scots. And for all of his reputation at the maul, we lost possession from our rolling maul on at least two occasions while Skelton was on the field. Cummins made a mess of our mauls while Big Willy never had an impact.
 
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stillmissit

Peter Johnson (47)
Our tacklers roll to the side quicker, presenting the ref a cleaner picture for when our jackler goes in to pilfer the ball.

if our tacklers instead stayed to slow down the opposition 9, as the Scots did today, we wouldn’t be able to effect so many pilfers because the ref would say we weren’t clearing the tackle area.
Isn't this a ref reading issue?
 

JRugby2

Bob Loudon (25)
Our tacklers roll to the side quicker, presenting the ref a cleaner picture for when our jackler goes in to pilfer the ball.

if our tacklers instead stayed to slow down the opposition 9, as the Scots did today, we wouldn’t be able to effect so many pilfers because the ref would say we weren’t clearing the tackle area.
Its less about what the tacklers do, more so the other arriving players competing at the breakdown, no?

Tacklers not rolling is pretty heavily scrutinised and we saw a few PKs both side of the ball today for this.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
The big question is probably whether or not they want to keep running Ikitau at 12. If they do then it's probably 12 Ikitau and 13 Flook, if not it's 12 Stewart and 13 Ikitau. I wouldn't expect to see Kellaway line up at 13 from the start next week.
Ikitau/Flook seems the option but ... yeah. Damn.
 
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