Scotland v Australia, Murrayfield, 5am 24 Nov 2013

[RoffsChoice]

Look, I don't dislike CFS because he isn't a Brumbies player, or because I never got selected for my school team, or because I think he's useless, or any other reason thrown around here.

My problem is that he has played five games at OC at Super level this year and we are now considering throwing him against a tier one nation in the most difficult backline position. OC is one of those spots where if you get 4/5 things right but that one thing wrong, you screw up and they get through. And that error can be forced on an inexperienced young OC.

And I get that the guy has done well in schoolboys, U20s and for the Reds. Like most of you (I expect) I have seen him do well at those levels. But even Stirling Mortlock wasn't put straight into 13, we blooded him on the wing because you need to be damn consistent at international level to not screw it up.

I don't know why Betham (winger) was called up to replace Kuridrani (OC). This is a time to call Tapuai, Horne or Inman. Not that they will be playing against the scots, but still.

 

[Ash]

And who do you propose we play at 13 otherwise?

To the best of my knowledge, the only two guys in the squad who have played 13 are Harris and CFS. I don't recall Tomane ever playing there for the Brumbies, although Tomane did play centre for the Titans. So other than CFS, Harris and at a stretch Tomane, I don't think we have anyone who has played 13 before at a professional level.

Betham was called up because he was in the squad for the RC and just missed out on touring, and Harris and CFS can play 13. Of the two, Harris is now a utility back with a few games at 13 but who is best at (arguably) at 12, and CFS is an out and out 13 who has played more on the wing so far but also played at 13. I'd take CFS.

The other option is To'omua or CLL. Lilo hasn't exactly covered himself in glory with his defending in the 12 channel in the RC and off the bench this year.

Against Scotland, I wouldn't be too worried. They are one of the weakest of the top nations in the outside backs, and they have an injury crisis in the centres. If we lose to the Scots, it won't be through the centres.

Selecting a prop vs CFS would be great, CFS is a beast of a runner. Go hyperbole!

 

[Tip]

My problem is that he has played five games at OC at Super level this year and we are now considering throwing him against a tier one nation in the most difficult backline position. OC is one of those spots where if you get 4/5 things right but that one thing wrong, you screw up and they get through. And that error can be forced on an inexperienced young OC.

Sautia is the most experienced outside centre available. I'll take 5 games at Outside centre any day compared to 0 - which is what all other alternatives (Leali'ifano & Harris) offer.

Harris may have worn 13 on his back before, but he defended at 12, with a backline shuffle occurring to cater for Quade at Fullback.

I don't know why Betham (winger) was called up to replace Kuridrani (OC). This is a time to call Tapuai, Horne or Inman. Not that they will be playing against the scots, but still.

It is much easier for a Betham to come into a match-day squad with only 48 hours on the same continent then to call up Taps, Horne or Inman who haven't trained with the Wallabies all year.

 

[fatprop]

Sautia is the most experienced outside centre available. I'll take 5 games at Outside centre any day compared to 0 - which is what all other alternatives (Leali'ifano & Harris) offer.

Harris may have worn 13 on his back before, but he defended at 12, with a backline shuffle occurring to cater for Quade at Fullback.



It is much easier for a Betham to come into a match-day squad with only 48 hours on the same continent then to call up Taps, Horne or Inman who haven't trained with the Wallabies all year.

But Horne did train and play with the wobs this year

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[Tip]

Horne hasn't trained with the wallabies since the initial RC 41 man squad!

Betham played in the most recent Bledisloe. Betham has toured with the team, Horne didn't make the second cut.

Who would have a better idea of team structures & backline plays?
IIRC the wallabies were running around like headless chooks for the first part of the RC so I'd definitely prefer Betham, who made a bloody good fist of his one and only chance this year compared to years of mediocrity offered by Horne.

 

[Lindommer]

What Ash said. Link, give CFS the 13 jumper, end of argument.

This is also the game to start with White and Phipps rides the pine. The Scots'll kick the leather off the pill so the Wallabies need a bit of energy getting back to counter-attack, Genia needs a rest. BUT/AND, we DESPERATELY need to build depth leading up to RWC2015; this is the perfect match to build that depth, to see how blokes like CFS, Betham, Foley, Douglas, et al, can step into a match day furnace and perform.

I wouldn't be selecting the proven performers (Moore, Hooper, Simmons, Mowen, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), etc.) against Scotland when there's a monstrous match against Wales the week after. Remember Chris Hickey at the Tahs? Ground his best 15 into the ground until they broke. One game too far, one game too far.....

 

[p.Tah]

I wouldn't be selecting the proven performers (Moore, Hooper, Simmons, Mowen, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), etc.) against Scotland when there's a monstrous match against Wales the week after. Remember Chris Hickey at the Tahs? Ground his best 15 into the ground until they broke. One game too far, one game too far...

I also remember what happened when we rested players against Scotland and Samoa when we were thinking about the next week. We can't take his week too lightly.

 

[Bairdy]

Not that I'm suggesting he play at 13, but I don't recall seeing To'omua play at 12 in Super Rugby either and he seems to have done OK

Fair point, I wasn't really sold on To'omua at 12 when Lilo was injured in the Argie match, but he has excelled there. Could he be pushed further out in to the midfield? He's a strong enough defender and ball carrier, and can set up his outside backs, so why not! (no sarcasm)

 

[Tangawizi]

Fair point, I wasn't really sold on To'omua at 12 when Lilo was injured in the Argie match, but he has excelled there. Could he be pushed further out in to the midfield? He's a strong enough defender and ball carrier, and can set up his outside backs, so why not! (no sarcasm)

Fox Sports News is reporting that To'omua's on his way home with a hamstring injury.

That Scottish witchdoctor must really know his stuff....

http://m.foxsports.com.au/rugby/wal...e-through-injury/story-e6frf55l-1226764812262

 

[RoffsChoice]

God damn it! Cooper-To'omua was really on fire!

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Fuuuuuuuuuck! Just when we seemed to be building some momentum and combinations we have these idiots getting themselves suspended and To'omua is out. I have massive concerns over this game now. I could punch a hole through my computer at the minute.

 

[lewisr]

fucking hell. Wales is going to be a massive ask.

Lilo into 12.
CFS 13.

at least we gain the kicking with lilo

 

[lewisr]

On the plus side, this will be another good test for QC (Quade Cooper). I hope he steps up again even with a completely different backline. If he can get them firing with 4 people out then he will just be cementing his place in the team and developing more as a player.

The best have to be able to overcome adversity and change and I hope he does.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Yep, Cooper - Lilo - CFS is the midfield, end of story. Now who do we play in the back three? Tomane, Izzy and ???

 

[RoffsChoice]

I think we might have to put Folau on the wing and Foley at fullback. That isn't good.

 

[Scotty]

I haven't been watching rugby as closely as usual in the last few months. But saying that I always made time for the Reds. What exactly has CFS done that justifies a start in the test #13 jersey?

He's good for his age, but it's those young players that should be playing themselves into the team. In this event I think you'd play the experienced option like Harris.

Or have I missed something?

CFS started at 13 for the Reds this year. I don't think Harris did.

 

[RugbyReg]

. But even Stirling Mortlock wasn't put straight into 13, we blooded him on the wing because you need to be damn consistent at international level to not screw it up.

No. It was because we had Dan Herbert at out centre and we needed a goal kicker because Burke was out. So Morty was picked on the wing.


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[lewisr]

Ok different idea:

Cooper
Tomane
Foley
Lilo
CFS
FOlau

 

[Scotty]

I think we might have to put Folau on the wing and Foley at fullback. That isn't good.

It would be a bomb fest from Scotland.

Prefer Foley on the wing.

 

[ChargerWA]

Well this has turned into a clusterfuck.