Scotland v Australia 12Nov16 Saturday

[Ballboy]

We need to prime up our kick chase game e.g. the box kick , it needs to be chased , if you dont it is just gifting them the ball .. see the poms v boks both sdes did it all game..
also and i hesitate to say this but i have given it a lot of thought , gulp ,,, we shoudl kick more field goals ,, there i said it ,, ouch ,, we get in the red zone and the defence is going hard , more than a few times it goes 8-9 phases and we drop the ball ,, after 5-6 in the red we shoudl take 3 and get on ,, keep the score board ticking

 

[Merrow]

Speight did not make 1 clean break or beat any defenders and zero offloads. So he ran 8 times for 58 metres but as soon as a defender got near him he was tackled AND he died with the ball everytime.
Folau beat 4 defenders and offloaded 4 times.

In my opinion, better to die with the ball than throw a hail mary pass and turn it over.

 

[fatprop]

I well remember Deans being castigated for not knowing how to properly manage his bench when a number of players sat there all game and were not used. Different strokes for different folks?

The key thing here is "properly manage his bench", it worked, we won, so he properly manage his bench.

If we didn't, we may have an issue.

Why would you drop an inexperienced Latu into the match while Moore was playing well?

Where would you put Cooper?

10? Foley was at 100% goal kicking and running the team well, we were creating pressure and opportunities, so not at 10

12? Nup
15? Nup

The way the game panned out, I can see why MC did it and with 20/20 hindsight it was the right decision

 

[Scrubber2050]

Wow
I forgot to mention the performance of Genia, his passing and box kick/s and I forget whether he sniped or not.

Maybe it was all forgettable.

Phipps should never have been dropped for Genia against Scotland

 

[fatprop]

In my opinion, better to die with the ball than throw a hail mary pass and turn it over.

And last week a lot of those passes were going to hand.

I would suggest the "hail mary" very easily becomes a brilliant miracle ball if it comes off.

I would prefer to see better catching and better passes; but still having a go

 

[Train Without a Station]

I know it may seem inconceivable to you fatprop, but you know it's entirely possible that Quade could come on and play better, or improve things?

Considering that for the 5 games they both played in the same conditions Quade was better, it's not as unlikely as you seem to think it is.

And if the only option is to bring him on for Foley, then it's a poorly composed bench.

How often does Hanson leave players on the bench at full time?

 

[PeterK]

In my opinion, better to die with the ball than throw a hail mary pass and turn it over.

perhaps in speights case because he never makes breaks so always has supports.

Folau often makes breaks, and in the position he was in against scotland takes the tackle. Then due to lack of support who have no idea how to protect a ruck the ball gets turned over.

There was no one near him to protect the ball so trying the pass was not that bad an idea.

 

[barbarian]

The bench debate is a pretty ridiculous argument. It's all ludicrously hypothetical. We could have scored 10 tries, or let in 10 tries, or Cooper could have kicked the ball into the front row of the stands and killed a small child.

As it stands we won the game, rolling over the Scots in the last 10 minutes. Of all the things to take from the game I don't think 'bench strategy' is particularly high on the list.
.

 

[Highlander35]

Whilst I agree that Scotland played better than Wales I think the statement is based on recent performance.

Who have Scotland beaten in the last 2 seasons?

Italy, Samoa, Japan and USA.

We'd have to go back to 2014 when they last beat a top 10 team in Argentina in mid year tests when I'm not sure about the availability of Argentina's best players.

Under Cotter

June 2014
Beat USA
Beat Canada
Beat Argentina
Lost to SA (Out of Window)

November 2014
Beat Argentina
Lost to New Zealand*
Beat Tonga

6 Nations 2015
Lost to France*
Lost to Wales*
Lost to Italy*
Lost to England
Lost to Ireland

World Cup Friendly
Lost to Ireland*
Defeated Italy
Defeated Italy
Lost to France*

World Cup
Defeated Japan
Defeated USA
Lost to South Africa
Defeated Samoa
Lost to Australia*

6 Nations 2016
Lost to England*
Lost to Wales*
Defeated Italy
Defeated France
Lost to Ireland

June 2016
Defeated Japan
Defeated Japan

November 2016
Lost to Australia*

Where * is under 7 points.

Still not brilliant, but aside from the 2015 Six Nations, a lot better than we were producing in the decade before.

 

[PeterK]

Where would you put Cooper?

10? Foley was at 100% goal kicking and running the team well, we were creating pressure and opportunities, so not at 10

12? Nup
15? Nup

For starters Foley was not running the team well at all. Scotland made more line breaks I believe.

Foley could have easily been moved to 12 and Hodge to speights wing and Cooper to 10.

 

[Micheal]

The bench debate is a pretty ridiculous argument. It's all ludicrously hypothetical. We could have scored 10 tries, or let in 10 tries, or Cooper could have kicked the ball into the front row of the stands and killed a small child.

As it stands we won the game, rolling over the Scots in the last 10 minutes. Of all the things to take from the game I don't think 'bench strategy' is particularly high on the list.
.

This is ludicrous. Cooper could've won us the game or lost it. Cheika thought it was best to leave Foley on the field and as coach thats his prerogative. Nothing will change that now and all the discourse on an internet forum about how Cooper is better or deserved to get on the field won't change a damn thing.

For all we know he could've dropped his dacks and done the helicopter facing the commentary box whilst bellowing Nessun Dorma* and drawing swastika's on his upper thighs with a Sharpie he stashed in the old poop shoot.

We should probably leave it there.

* unlikely as being from Queensland he doesn't know what Opera, or who Pavarotti, is. ("Pavarotti? Yeah I love that kind of pizza. A bit of spice goes down a treat. Full credit to the boys at the pizza shop"). A more likely scenario would probably involve him singing some putrid Australian rock song.

 

[dru]

Where would you put Cooper?

Firstly that's a question that should have been asked of Cheika before he selected the bench. The bench for a number of reasons looked very dodgy - these are matters for Cheika to answer about his "finishers".

Secondly, we were yet again (dejavu anyone) failing to create and execute opportunities. 2 tries to 3 is not what most Wallaby fans are looking for. Foley may well have been kicking well but we were not finding holes with his line leadership. This all starts with the forward pods (or lack thereof) - which leads to other questions. But if you were going to put Quade on the bench, it was really something that could have been used in the game.

If you are not going to do this, pick someone else on the bench.

And last week a lot of those passes were going to hand.

<snip>

I would prefer to see better catching and better passes; but still having a go

When you have distinct advantage in possession, being flamboyant in the offloads is a good thing. That was hardly the case against Scotland. Not the time to be pushing things.

Look I am not usually one who besmirches Cheika, but he's kind of shit besmirched all on his own at the moment.

 

[Twoilms]

Speight won't be dropped/wasn't bad at all. Made one genuine mistake in dropping that easily held high ball. Otherwise, as against wales, didn't ever really get the opportunity or space. Was on Hodge's outside for his try, ready to finish if necessary. Also, as someone else mentioned, hits rucks like a forward.

 

[Highlander35]

Also: for all your talk about the bench, we also left two unused: reserve scrum half Ali Price and outside back Rory Hughes, plus our other back sub missed his one on one tackle on Kuridrani.

So, Chillax

 

[Twoilms]

Also: for all your talk about the bench, we also left two unused: reserve scrum half Ali Price and outside back Rory Hughes, plus our other back sub missed his one on one tackle on Kuridrani.

So, Chillax

Relax? this is the internet, man! there is only anger.

 

[Train Without a Station]

The point isn't so much in the context of this game in isolation. But the general use.

Is that how Cheika is going to coach? When things get tight, be afraid to use the players he selects on the bench?

If some are happy with that fine. I hope you're happy continuing to see teams like NZ use their benches well and kick away from us in the last quarter of games, while we try and scrape through games against teams ranked outside the top 4.

Cheika considered Cooper a better option at 10 than Foley 4 games ago, now he's afraid to put him on the park? Why pick him in the 23 at all. Same with Latu too.

Who cares if Moore is playing good. Is he going to be playing better and offering more than a fresh Latu after 60 minutes? Unlikely.

 

[I like to watch]

He's made a rod for his own back,by promoting this "finishers" business.

I get the feeling he's really feeling the pressure,and is now very risk averse.
But making no decision,is a decision when planning subs.

 

[Merrow]

perhaps in speights case because he never makes breaks so always has supports.

Folau often makes breaks, and in the position he was in against scotland takes the tackle. Then due to lack of support who have no idea how to protect a ruck the ball gets turned over.

There was no one near him to protect the ball so trying the pass was not that bad an idea.

Like I said, it was my opinion, and I respect that you have your own opinion. To say Speight never makes breaks is not true though. He made at least one I can remember in the Wales match and was within about a metre of scoring. Yes Folau often makes breaks, but until only recently could also be accused of often dying with the ball, and getting himself isolated. And in the instance of one his passes, there was plenty of people around him......Hodge for one.

 

[ACT Crusader]

He's made a rod for his own back,by promoting this "finishers" business.

I get the feeling he's really feeling the pressure,and is now very risk averse.
But making no decision,is a decision when planning subs.

I agree. I asked the question prior to the test - Will Quade get a run? In my mind he wouldn't get a run unless injury and sure enough he's got splinters.

It seems he hasn't really worked out what his strategy is when it comes to using the bench and recognising the opportunities that might be there.

It's hard not to think that given the recent trend Quade is insurance only rather than a key piece into finishing out a test as a key piece of the winning puzzle. Perhaps it's a case of last man standing. If Giteau, To'omua or even Lilo were fit, would Quade even be there?

When Cheika subbed Quade on for 3-4 minutes against the ABs in Eden Park when the test was over, I thought it was an extremely strange move. For what purpose?

Something isn't right there I reckon.

 

[fatprop]

Or we are all reading too much into one game