Scotland v Australia 12Nov16 Saturday

[KOB1987]

What happened to Cheika's "finishers" rhetoric?

Now he doesn't even use some subs....

You're talking about Quade presumably. Latu didn't come on either I don't think.

I can understand why he didn't take Foley off after we hit the front with 4 minutes to go as it could have upset our composure. However I remember thinking after the Scots scored early in the second half that we needed to do something different if we are to win this and that Quade should have come on then.

It's probably the previous week's game when we had a big lead that would have been opportune to give him 30 minutes off the bench instead of 4. Don't know what's going on there TBH.

All that said I haven't heard the 'finishers' rhetoric for a long time, maybe not at all this season. But I could have missed it!

 

[Twoilms]

Think he's probably missing a trick not relying on the finishers rhetoric. Maybe he's gauged the squad and decided the motivational effects of being called a 'finisher' are having diminishing returns. It is bullshit - after all. If you're on the bench, 95% of the time because you aren't good enough to be starting.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

Yep Wamberal, I didn't hear who it was and guessed James Horwill, but if it was Justin he wasn't too bad I thought.

It was both, Horwill was in the box and Harrison did the H/T analysis, the other commentators called him James and he referenced team mates from 'Quins.

 

[Train Without a Station]

KOB, if you don't use them because the game is tight then you don't believe in the whole "finisher" rhetoric........

 

[Braveheart81]

Surely it is situation specific.

Two of the bench didn't get on the field and the starting players in their position were playing well. Cooper can obviously come on in other positions but the second most likely person for him to replace (Hodge) was also playing well.

 

[Merrow]

Moore and Foley were playing the house down. I wouldn't have taken them off either, especially in light of the yellow card in Moores case. He looked pretty pissed off with Skelton.......probably gave him extra impetus.

 

[KOB1987]

KOB, if you don't use them because the game is tight then you don't believe in the whole "finisher" rhetoric....

Maybe some are finishers and some are injury cover. I didn't say I did or didn't believe in the 'finishers' rhetoric, only that I have heard it in the last year. As Braveheart points out it's situation specific.

 

[KOB1987]

Scotland are definitely a team on the up. Going into Saturday's game they had won 4 (Japan x 2, France, Italy) and lost 3 so far this year. Their biggest loss was by 10 points to Ireland, England only beat them by 6 and Wales by 4.

 

[dru]

So it seems that the intent for this game was a focus on the forwards and a change in game play from the Wales test. Tactical kicking disappeared, a bench full of locks and a general belief that we would face wet turgid conditions and a 10 man approach from the Scots.

Wrong.

Sunny, flat track, fast pitch and an opposition playing wide.

With a focus on the pigs I would have hoped for at least a continuation of the forward pod play - excellent last week in the tight pod (4, 5, 8) and improving in the wide pod (1, 2, 3). Unfortunately for large chunks of the game the forward attack seemed (comparatively) unstructured using whoever was next in line.

In the mean time while our attack last week was excellent our defense had been largely untested. This week it seems Grey has work to do.

I dont mind the push pass offloads - WHEN we are dominating possession. We weren't and shouldn't have been.

The biggest concern for me is not the chosen game play but the lack of rugby intelligence to adjust to the circumstances and conditions.

I understand the desire for positivity among fans, but I that was not a convincing game of rugby for the Wallabies.

Lucky escape, let's hope they make the most of it.

 

[fatprop]

What happened to Cheika's "finishers" rhetoric?

Now he doesn't even use some subs....

rhetoric? nup, the coaches thought the players were doing the job.

That maybe totally different the next game

 

[PeterK]

One more thing to those saying Speight had a poor game. He had the highest run metres at 58m; Kuridrani at 57 and Hodge at 56. Izzy made 29m and people are rating him as having a great game. Speight also made some crucial tackles and hits rucks like a forward. To say he had a poor game is going a little far. He spilt one high ball. Anyone would think he took someone's head off.

Speight did not make 1 clean break or beat any defenders and zero offloads. So he ran 8 times for 58 metres but as soon as a defender got near him he was tackled AND he died with the ball everytime.
Folau beat 4 defenders and offloaded 4 times.

 

[PeterK]

And to top off a better than average performance by Henry, I don't think he missed a tackle all night. I also posted earlier that I thought Henry's run metres would be up there with the top, but didn't expect him to have the most. A better effort than most posters are prepared to concede.

But he was no threat with the ball, no tackles beaten , didn't keep the ball alive.

Made 2 tackles and missed 1.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Oh they "thought the players were doing the job"?

If they did I question how good they are at identifying this considering the team trailed for about 75 minutes of the game, and got home by 1 point.

The whole concept that Cheika sold was about selecting players that can add impact from the bench and pick up the intensity, etc. to finish out the game.

It appears it's more selective logic that only applies when they want to justify something. Kind of like the "combinations".

Kob, when I said "you" I was more referring to people who repeated the rhetoric, and Cheika who promoted it, but then under pressure situations doesn't follow it.

 

[PeterK]

KOB, if you don't use them because the game is tight then you don't believe in the whole "finisher" rhetoric....

exactly, the finishers are supposed to lift the game and add impact.

The reality is Cheika doesn't trust or believe in the bench.

He used to with super sub Beale.

Hooper would be a great finisher as an example.

He subs the tight 5 except Moore when they look / play tired.

He subs the half when they make a few mistakes.

Rarely subs anyone else in the backline with more than 10 mins.

 

[Dan54]

It was both, Horwill was in the box and Harrison did the H/T analysis, the other commentators called him James and he referenced team mates from 'Quins.

Cheers MonkeyBoy, I thought it sounded like James Horwill, but wasn't sure, regardless I thought he was good!

 

[fatprop]

Oh they "thought the players were doing the job"?

If they did I question how good they are at identifying this considering the team trailed for about 75 minutes of the game, and got home by 1 point.

The whole concept that Cheika sold was about selecting players that can add impact from the bench and pick up the intensity, etc. to finish out the game.

It appears it's more selective logic that only applies when they want to justify something. Kind of like the "combinations".

Kob, when I said "you" I was more referring to people who repeated the rhetoric, and Cheika who promoted it, but then under pressure situations doesn't follow it.

they were rolling forward, we had the momentum, he rolled the dice and didn't chose to change the team

it worked so he was right to do so

 

[Braveheart81]

I guess the question is at what point should Latu have replaced Moore and when should Cooper have been brought on and for whom?

 

[Scrubber2050]

Congrats to the Scots - deserved to win.

For those of you that were believing we are playing very good footy (particularly after the Welsh game) give yourselves an uppercut. There is certainly something missing when you flog a good team (even playing badly), one week and play shithouse against a team you should comfortably beat. Chuck in that it's a Grand Slam .

Fucking disgraceful performance all round. The only highlights to me was the kicking of Foley and our kickoffs

On the Skelton matter. That was one of the cheapest illegal disgraceful shots I've seen on a rugby paddock. If the Scot was seriously injured or done a poofball dive Skelton shoulda got a red and be scrubbed for at least 6 - 8 weeks. But he is a favoured lad - fuck knows why.

The Scottish forwards certainly took it to ours and the backs were poor most of the match.

 

[Braveheart81]

For those of you that were believing we are playing very good footy (particularly after the Welsh game) give yourselves an uppercut. There is certainly something missing when you flog a good team (even playing badly), one week and play shithouse against a team you should comfortably beat.

Surely this is a statement based on reputation rather than actual performance.

Scotland were so much better than Wales. They would have beaten Wales comfortably with that performance as well.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Surely this is a statement based on reputation rather than actual performance.

Scotland were so much better than Wales. They would have beaten Wales comfortably with that performance as well.

BH

How do you explain the different performance from last week to this week ?

Players, Selection, the coaches, ca't be the Ref as we were favoured there),
preparation, game plan ???????