School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[CatchnPass]

Although the NSW AAGPS seems to be the only association which has tried to eliminate the practice through a code of practice. Qld GPS seem to have given up and it's open slather and CAS and ISA don't seem to have addressed the issue at all.

Quite how the faction in the NSW AAGPS who want zero sporting scholarships can be reconciled with the schools who either want a limited number or no restrictions will be interesting to watch.

What exactly is the issue that CAS needs to address QH? Whilst the odd aspersion creeps into this thread, there seems remarkably little evidence of the dial a team syndrome having taken hold in CAS land.

 

[Quick Hands]

I am unsure if it was a factor, but upon speaking with a Shore basketball father on the weekend, he expressed an opinion that whilst the basketballers at Shore understood the stance taken they were very disappointed at not being able to test themselves against the so called "superteam".

Maybe there were some internal influences at work that helped speed up the process?

The decision to not play is difficult on so many levels. The fact that Dr Wright and 4 other Heads decided to take that action is to me an indication of the extent of the practice at the school in question.

 

[Quick Hands]

What exactly is the issue that CAS needs to address QH? Whilst the odd aspersion creeps into this thread, there seems remarkably little evidence of the dial a team syndrome having taken hold in CAS land.

As the CAS hasn't felt the need to do anything, there probably isn't an issue to be addressed there. I wasn't suggesting that there was, I was just pointing out the the AAGPS have a code of conduct which forbids sporting scholarships/bursaries/recruiting, while the other 2 associations don't. There could be many reasons why they haven't forbidden them - probably it's not an issue for either of them so no need to outlaw something that's not happening.

 

[Muglair]

Great to see Shore biting the bullet, such a shame for the boys at all schools not playing Scots if they really were/are that good. Any athlete really does want to play the best. Imagine having a good team one year and the match against Joeys/Sydney Uni/All Blacks was washed out.

Interesting comment that Scots were resisting an external review. It is hard to imagine though that the other schools were suggesting an independent review of all schools. If they were, shame on Scots. If not, I cannot take the other schools seriously.

As for suggestions that the demise of this thread is nigh.... really??

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Any athlete really does want to play the best.

I think that this one sentence actually sums up the whole problem, inadvertently.
These kids are not all or even mostly "athletes" in a sense that would make this statement true.
They are school kids with varying levels of ability, interest and enthusiasm for their respective sports. Consequently not all, and maybe not even many, want or need to play against the best in order to test themselves or ready themselves for a career in sport beyond school. Some do not care where they sit in an imaginary pecking order.
To ascribe this desire is to treat them as would be professionals and to morph a school sporting comp into a pro tryout. And to do so without considering the consequences of changing the nature of school sport.
This is how the whole problem got started.
If you want to play the best play in a comp where all the best can play irrespective of parental income or school largesse and not a comp where some schools look for the best and settle for better in search of marketing glory.

 

[Shun]

Who's tipped to win the first grade competition this year?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^ Where?
Which of the QLD GPS, QLD AIC, QLD CSS, QLD TAS First XV competitions do you refer to?

Or are you considering ACT Combined Schools/Clubs U18's, or Maybe NSW AAGPS, CAS, ISA Div 1, or one of the various regional NSW CHS First XV competitions?

There are also First XV Competitions in Victoria and Perth than I am aware of.

Every one of the above will have a team favoured to win in 2014.

Not all of these are impacted by perceived or real issues associated with players on Scholarships.

 

[Spieber]

Meanwhile in Melbourne at the Australian Schools basketball championships semis NSWIS Is (aka Scots) wipes the floor with NSWIS IIs (aka High) and now faces the AIS (aka Lake Ginninderra) in the final. Looks like the 12/13 squads running around.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Heres a good idea Speiber ol' mate... Why don't we bundle up all these boys.... Send them over to the US on scholarships, so that they can ply the pasttime over there... To leave us all alone to concentrate on losing the Ashes and the 2019 RWC????
I really don't care a rats arse about bball. If these kids put on some bulk, we might have some decent locks running around. I blame the government for this.

 

[Quick Hands]

I've never really had anything to do with it and can't say I follow basketball at all, but at a skills level it seems to have some value in terms of agility, hand/eye co-ordination, spatial awareness and general fitness. I also can't help but notice if I'm passing a school around lunchtime, many of the boys seem to be playing a form of basketball with one basket in contrast to when I was at school where there was a game of cricket going on every 5-10 metres. I can't recall the last time I saw boys in a school playground playing cricket. (I'm not talking about competiton but pick up games at lunch)

 

[Muglair]

I think that this one sentence actually sums up the whole problem, inadvertently.
These kids are not all or even mostly "athletes" in a sense that would make this statement true.
They are school kids with varying levels of ability, interest and enthusiasm for their respective sports. Consequently not all, and maybe not even many, want or need to play against the best in order to test themselves or ready themselves for a career in sport beyond school. Some do not care where they sit in an imaginary pecking order.
To ascribe this desire is to treat them as would be professionals and to morph a school sporting comp into a pro tryout. And to do so without considering the consequences of changing the nature of school sport.
This is how the whole problem got started.
If you want to play the best play in a comp where all the best can play irrespective of parental income or school largesse and not a comp where some schools look for the best and settle for better in search of marketing glory.

Maybe so IS. More like a careless use of the word athlete used to make a point though.

How about 1st team teenage boy plays other first team teenage boy. They still need to check out who is the highest on the tree.

This instinct even predates formation of the GPS Sports Association

 

[Muglair]

But possibly not by much!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

How about 1st team teenage boy plays other first team teenage boy. They still need to check out who is the highest on the tree.

I doubt even that.
There are too many outside influences to make these type of direct comparisons valid: weaker links that have to be covered for, for instance.
It's meant to be 1st team v 1st team with each member doing his best. In a sense a lack of recognition of this primary team dynamic is the raison d'être for this thread.
Too much focus on the individual is a scourge borne of hand picking the talented instead of developing the incumbent and learning, as a team, to live with the consequences.

 

[Quick Hands]

IToo much focus on the individual is a scourge borne of hand picking the talented instead of developing the incumbent and learning, as a team, to live with the consequences.

You've hit the nail on the head here. Instead of coaching the boys at the school, importing fills the gap with ready-made talent. In some cases multiple gaps, so that the team bears no resemblance to the boys who started at the school by regular enrolment.

Before we get the replies about no-one owning a spot - there's nothing wrong with team personnel changing during the 6 years of school, if it's as a result of good coaching and development, players in B and C teams working hard or players maturing late. What is wrong is when a boy has worked hard and played his part in the team is suddenly deemed inadequate and replaced by a player recruited to the school specifically to play in that position.

 

[Brian Westlake]

I doubt even that.
There are too many outside influences to make these type of direct comparisons valid: weaker links that have to be covered for, for instance.
It's meant to be 1st team v 1st team with each member doing his best. In a sense a lack of recognition of this primary team dynamic is the raison d'être for this thread.
Too much focus on the individual is a scourge borne of hand picking the talented instead of developing the incumbent and learning, as a team, to live with the consequences.

Marxism at its finest!!!
I always like chico the best... Karl was a downer

Well put IS. So therein the fundamental ideologies of Bellevue Hill looking for world domination and you wanting to make sure the Southern Hairy Nosed Wombat survives is where we stand.
Now I know why the song of the siren keeps bringing me back to these perilous shores. :/

 

[Muglair]

I have been away and otherwise occupied but some interesting thinking occurs in my absence apparently.

Thanks for pushing back twice IS, it really gave me some food for thought. My views are apparently really driven by what makes sense to me, or was important to me, personally. Unfortunately that does ignore the many GPS athletes who really are not that interested in pursuing sport to their potential, evidenced by the drop out rate once they leave school.

So my position changes (albeit I will then change the landscape so I look like I was right all along; an essential thread skill).

I would then agree that the anti-scholarship group are correct in pushing for a scholarship free zone where sport can be enjoyed as most of us knew it. However it does then genuinely deprive other boys with legitimate non music and non academic ambitions of opportunity (both to attend a school of their choice and pursue sporting excellence).

Some of the ideas expressed here would then be relevant in allowing the schools wishing to differentiate themselves, the opportunity of entering elite teams in an elite competition outside of the normal GPS stream. In that case a "Scots" would enter a 1stXV in the GPS competition and an elite team in an elite competition.

Intelligent scheduling (is this possible?) would allow a combined GPS team the opportunity to play against elite teams of some description so the opportunity to pursue representative schoolboy rugby is not closed off.

In a bizarre way then Scots is currently the only school actually offering opportunities to all boys within their school to compete and aspire to a level that suits them. It just does not fit well with what the other schools want to offer.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

In a bizarre way then Scots is currently the only school actually offering opportunities to all boys within their school to compete and aspire to a level that suits them. It just does not fit well with what the other schools want to offer.

How is that an appropriate aim of education?

 

[Runner]

Many here have had very valid points across the spectrum of opinions but till a person, persons or boards, councils administrators do anything we are all just contributing to Co2 ommissions.

 

[Muglair]

How is that an appropriate aim of education?

I have wondered the same thing about bagpipes

 

[Rob hart]

I have been away and otherwise occupied but some interesting thinking occurs in my absence apparently.

Thanks for pushing back twice IS, it really gave me some food for thought. My views are apparently really driven by what makes sense to me, or was important to me, personally. Unfortunately that does ignore the many GPS athletes who really are not that interested in pursuing sport to their potential, evidenced by the drop out rate once they leave school.

So my position changes (albeit I will then change the landscape so I look like I was right all along; an essential thread skill).

I would then agree that the anti-scholarship group are correct in pushing for a scholarship free zone where sport can be enjoyed as most of us knew it. However it does then genuinely deprive other boys with legitimate non music and non academic ambitions of opportunity (both to attend a school of their choice and pursue sporting excellence).

Some of the ideas expressed here would then be relevant in allowing the schools wishing to differentiate themselves, the opportunity of entering elite teams in an elite competition outside of the normal GPS stream. In that case a "Scots" would enter a 1stXV in the GPS competition and an elite team in an elite competition.

Intelligent scheduling (is this possible?) would allow a combined GPS team the opportunity to play against elite teams of some description so the opportunity to pursue representative schoolboy rugby is not closed off.

In a bizarre way then Scots is currently the only school actually offering opportunities to all boys within their school to compete and aspire to a level that suits them. It just does not fit well with what the other schools want to offer.

Muglair I take your point and believe its valid ...... but ask this simple question ......why would Scots want to compete in an elite comp? They were co-premiers this year with an organic 15 (less one i believe) and managed to jointly win a comp against the greatest assembled team in GPS history.......just a good side who were coached well........