School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[wreckless]

Wreckless???

Wreckless?????

WRECKLESS!!!!!!
Can you have a good long chat with your young bloke and tell him the facts of life?
As he finishes his HSC and leaves to play with Eastwood next year, he will realise that this comment will mean absolutely Jack Shit.
Sorry, I tried to stay away..

BW - I've tried as well! ( To stay away that is! ).

With the back of the HSC broken he obviously has some time on his hands and thoughts are turning to more esoteric subject matter. I do commend him on his passion and interest in the greater good for the game.

May be a bit paternalistic but maybe some of the harsher critics could cut him a bit of slack - but I'll have a quiet word!

Re : Facts of Life - a painful and excruciating experience which scarred not only me but him as well and I'm sure he looks back and wonders what the hell I was talking about! Thank goodness for his mother!

Cheers, Wreckless

 

[young gun]

Sorry gents. I just wanted to change things up a bit. I kind've got bored of seeing countless definitions of a Bursary and/or a scholarship.

For the glory of winning. In any sport. People and athletes are always going to try and have a competitive advantage over other competitors in other competitions. And this competitive advantage would be…….money.

In Rugby Union, the main reason why New Zealand has conquered and continually defeated every other team this year is due to money and being genetically superior and equipped to the game.

In the GPS, the main reason why Newington and Scots have conquered each other and every other school is due to the money put into there teams and the 15 players being genetically superior and equipped to the game.

What do we now have?

One of the strongest GPS competitions so far. With nearly over half of the Australian Schoolboy team coming from one institution made up of 8 schools.
We should stop blaming each others schools and think on what we have created. The GPS competition should be seen as the pinnacle of Schoolboy rugby. Which it is.

Just imagine if the likes of Tepai and Tanne or Cannell still staying at there original high schools, would they be playing in the Aus. Schoolboys now?

The GPS whether it'd be the Queensland or NSW institution of private schools.

It should be recognised that it is these groups of schools are the ones that define and keep the sport of UNION strong in Australia. Let Victoria have AFL. Let the public schools have league. And let the pansies have football.

GPS FOREVER!!!!!!!

I congratulate you on defining, so succiently, just what the issues in Australian rugby are - the ARU should put you on a retainer.

 

[Quick Hands]

.

For the glory of winning.

In Rugby Union, the main reason why New Zealand has conquered and continually defeated every other team this year is due to money and being genetically superior and equipped to the game.

In the GPS, the main reason why Newington and Scots have conquered each other and every other school is due to the money put into there teams and the 15 players being genetically superior and equipped to the game.


One of the strongest GPS competitions so far. With nearly over half of the Australian Schoolboy team coming from one institution made up of 8 schools.

Just imagine if the likes of Tepai and Tanne or Cannell still staying at there original high schools, would they be playing in the Aus. Schoolboys now?

It should be recognised that it is these groups of schools are the ones that define and keep the sport of UNION strong in Australia. Let Victoria have AFL. Let the public schools have league. And let the pansies have football.

I've deleted some of your post to save space.

There is actually no glory in winning if you are in a mismatched game. A few world cups ago the full-time professional Wallabies defeated amateur Namibia by 100 and something to nil. There's no glory attached to a victory like that (there is of course the honour of representing your country).

New Zealand are the best because rugby is the dominant sport in that country by far, so almost every althletic male plays rugby. New Zealand is not as wealthy a country as many of the other major rugby nations - England, France and Australia are far more affluent.

Newington and Scots have won, not because of money, but because of recruiting. Even you identify that Shore decided to spend money on a grandstand/pavillion rather than on scholarshipped athletes.

The AAPGS is made up of 9 schools, 3 of which aren't strong enough to compete in 1st or 2nd XV rugby and a 4th couldn't win a 1st XV match in 2013. How can it be a strong competition when almost half the schools are uncompetitive?

The makeup of recent schoolboy representative sides should be a matter of concern for any true rugby follower. Until about 10 years ago schoolboy rep sides were about 50/50 in terms of state and private school students. Public schools haven't chosen not to play rugby, some have had their best players poached by private schools. How can a few GPS and CAS schools possibly produce enough players to compete with league, aussie rules and soccer which are played in state and catholic systems? Or indeed with countries like NZ where all school systems contribute to the ABs?

Rugby in Australia is going backwards in comparison to those 3 codes and backwards in comparison to rugby in other countries. This backwards spiral has co-incided with the increased scholarship activity in the Sydney and Brisbane GPS schools. On this evidence how is further increasing the concentration of players in a few schools going to help rugby? It makes no sense that it would and the evidence would suggest that it's having the opposite effect.

I'd be relatively certain that the boys that you mention would still have achieved rep honours at their former schools.

 

[SeaEagles]

I think the real problem is that there is no defined pathway for elite Rugby Players once they leave school.
If they go to League they will play in an Under 20, nationally televised competition.
If they go to AFL they play in a national junior competition representing one of the major AFL teams or their local feeder club to an AFL team.
Both are real pathways with financial incentive.
If they choose Union, at best they will play premier grade for nothing at their local club. Or run around in a sub-standard Colts Comp.
For a rare few they may be good enough to slot in at a Super 15 Academy.
But this is not good enough.
Scholarships aren't the cause of the development challenges that Union faces.
A clearly defined and attractive pathway after school is.
The standard of First XV rugby at the moment is of an amazing level, it is amongst the best rugby to watch...let it be and lets force the ARU to get their ducks in a stack.

 

[cyclopath]

I congratulate you on defining, so succiently, just what the issues in Australian rugby are - the ARU should put you on a retainer.

Or a tight rein.

 

[I like to watch]

I don't know about Qld,but in NSW there are very few that are up to SS level straight after School.
There is a clear pathway after School,it just doesn't provide immediate riches to School leavers.
Most of the kids lost to League,have actually been contracted for years before leaving School.
I for one don't think we should compete with League and pay 15yo's.

Talented and sought after players are provided with similar,and in many cases superior packages to play colts,than they would receive in League.
scholarships are the biggest cause for concern for the ARU,in regards to development challenges.
Not only are these Schools sabotaging other development pools to concentrate talented players in an 8 team comp.
They are also actively discouraging players from participating in ARU funded development programs.
Another problem that GPS Schools cause,is the burn out factor.
How many are lost to the game,when players are burnt out by two seasons of 10 or more weekly training sessions.

 

[wreckless]

Or a tight rein.

Like I said - give him a break! At least he's thinking about it - unlike the ARU! Wreckless ( Papa GPSrow )

 

[wreckless]

Like I said - give him a break! At least he's thinking about it - unlike the ARU! Wreckless ( Papa GPSrow )

And before anyone mentions it - it's off to the "Proud Parent" thread for me!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Can't deny the passion of wreckless junior but the Scholarship Thread is really only for the really bold.

It can be a rather unforgiving toxic frontier land of a thread, even for the experienced.

Abandon hope all ye who enter here.

 

[GPSrow]

Can't deny the passion of wreckless junior but the Scholarship Thread is really only for the really bold.

It can be a rather unforgiving toxic frontier land of a thread, even for the experienced.

Abandon hope all ye who enter here.

As we youngins say…..YOLO?

 

[GPSrow]

I've deleted some of your post to save space.

There is actually no glory in winning if you are in a mismatched game. A few world cups ago the full-time professional Wallabies defeated amateur Namibia by 100 and something to nil. There's no glory attached to a victory like that (there is of course the honour of representing your country).

New Zealand are the best because rugby is the dominant sport in that country by far, so almost every althletic male plays rugby. New Zealand is not as wealthy a country as many of the other major rugby nations - England, France and Australia are far more affluent.

Newington and Scots have won, not because of money, but because of recruiting. Even you identify that Shore decided to spend money on a grandstand/pavillion rather than on scholarshipped athletes.

The AAPGS is made up of 9 schools, 3 of which aren't strong enough to compete in 1st or 2nd XV rugby and a 4th couldn't win a 1st XV match in 2013. How can it be a strong competition when almost half the schools are uncompetitive?

The makeup of recent schoolboy representative sides should be a matter of concern for any true rugby follower. Until about 10 years ago schoolboy rep sides were about 50/50 in terms of state and private school students. Public schools haven't chosen not to play rugby, some have had their best players poached by private schools. How can a few GPS and CAS schools possibly produce enough players to compete with league, aussie rules and soccer which are played in state and catholic systems? Or indeed with countries like NZ where all school systems contribute to the ABs?

Rugby in Australia is going backwards in comparison to those 3 codes and backwards in comparison to rugby in other countries. This backwards spiral has co-incided with the increased scholarship activity in the Sydney and Brisbane GPS schools. On this evidence how is further increasing the concentration of players in a few schools going to help rugby? It makes no sense that it would and the evidence would suggest that it's having the opposite effect.

I'd be relatively certain that the boys that you mention would still have achieved rep honours at their former schools.

In all honesty, to change or differ on what I have said before……It could be a simple generational thing to be honest. I'm sure once NZ aged players such as McCaw and Carter start retiring, it'll be like our AUS cricket a couple of years ago. As Hooper, Kellaway and the youngins the wallabies start to prosper will we see, I will not be wrong by saying that WE WILL MAKE THE SEMI-FINALS or greater when the world cup comes around.

 

[cyclopath]

In all honesty, to change or differ on what I have said before……It could be a simple generational thing to be honest. I'm sure once NZ aged players such as McCaw and Carter start retiring, it'll be like our AUS cricket a couple of years ago. As Hooper, Kellaway and the youngins the wallabies start to prosper will we see, I will not be wrong by saying that WE WILL MAKE THE SEMI-FINALS or greater when the world cup comes around.

McCaw and Carter have been out for long periods recently - the ABs have not missed a beat. Their systems produce depth we cannot dream about at the moment. Look at players that get sent back to ITM Cup from filling in - e.g Luatua. They picked their 4th-5th choice number 10, and were still fine.
They will not fall to 5th in the world, as did the Aus Test team.
Your analogy is just plain wrong, in that regard.
I agree we should be good enough to make the semis at a RWC - we are usually ranked in the top 4. We have the raw materials, but McKenzie and his off-siders need to make some big changes.
The ABs have nothing to do with that. Our destiny is in our hands.
How we fix the bottom of the pyramid - i.e. schoolboys is vexed, but the current monomania of a few institutions is not the way, I am pretty sure.

 

[young gun]

Or a tight rein.

got to say, I laughed when I saw that GPS put a "like" to my post - maybe my humour is too subtle, but clearly, or so I thought, I was suggesting the views as stated were in fact flawed, significantly.

 

[fpiglet]

got to say, I laughed when I saw that GPS put a "like" to my post - maybe my humour is too subtle, but clearly, or so I thought, I was suggesting the views as stated were in fact flawed, significantly.

To be a bit fair for GPSRow.... irony can be difficult to get across in writing for those not entirely turned disenchanted or overly cynical as it can be taken, ahem, often literally. Irony is often better delivered in person or by a stand up such as Dave Hughes. That's not to say you still can't be clever in your writing

 

[fpiglet]

W

I think the real problem is that there is no defined pathway for elite Rugby Players once they leave school.
If they go to League they will play in an Under 20, nationally televised competition.
If they go to AFL they play in a national junior competition representing one of the major AFL teams or their local feeder club to an AFL team.
Both are real pathways with financial incentive.
If they choose Union, at best they will play premier grade for nothing at their local club. Or run around in a sub-standard Colts Comp.
For a rare few they may be good enough to slot in at a Super 15 Academy.
But this is not good enough.
Scholarships aren't the cause of the development challenges that Union faces.
A clearly defined and attractive pathway after school is.
The standard of First XV rugby at the moment is of an amazing level, it is amongst the best rugby to watch.let it be and lets force the ARU to get their ducks in a stack.

Woohoo. Playing in a nationally televised Under20s comp that no one watches must be a real incentive. It's kinda like twenty six blokes on a footy field watching in awe their selfies. Surely that can't be a motivation for the switch?
When you start stripping comps or age groups of their players and squeezing them into higher grades always downgrades a comp. Never been a big fan of pushing U16s into opens for exactly that reason. Why can't a U16 comp be the best it can be? Things fall apart when everyone tries to circumvent a system and we end up with players with heads too big, feeling they've already 'made it', or simply burnt out especially when they play with older more experienced players who don't give a razoo for the golden child. Not everyone who is good can make the Wallabies, there's a huge graveyard of talented players who tried and failed but are in unmarked graves. That's the real glory of sport.

 

[fsrugby]

W
Woohoo. Playing in a nationally televised Under20s comp that no one watches must be a real incentive.

The Holden Cup (Nat U20's) has on a regular basis has out rated Super 15 - Including apparently, cumulative results for all of last year!

 

[Brian Westlake]

BW - I've tried as well! ( To stay away that is! ).

With the back of the HSC broken he obviously has some time on his hands and thoughts are turning to more esoteric subject matter. I do commend him on his passion and interest in the greater good for the game.

May be a bit paternalistic but maybe some of the harsher critics could cut him a bit of slack - but I'll have a quiet word!

Re : Facts of Life - a painful and excruciating experience which scarred not only me but him as well and I'm sure he looks back and wonders what the hell I was talking about! Thank goodness for his mother!

Cheers, Wreckless

I hope that he achieves the mark he wants and goes on with his chosen lot. (Hopefully not an aspiring S15 player)
Good money in Ortho's and bugger all philanthropy. Opthalmologists too. They rake it in.
Good luck to him

 

[Brian Westlake]

They chose to change to league because of the money.

Why?

 

[Brian Westlake]

I think the real problem is that there is no defined pathway for elite Rugby Players once they leave school.
If they go to League they will play in an Under 20, nationally televised competition.
If they go to AFL they play in a national junior competition representing one of the major AFL teams or their local feeder club to an AFL team.
Both are real pathways with financial incentive.
If they choose Union, at best they will play premier grade for nothing at their local club. Or run around in a sub-standard Colts Comp.
For a rare few they may be good enough to slot in at a Super 15 Academy.
But this is not good enough.
Scholarships aren't the cause of the development challenges that Union faces.
A clearly defined and attractive pathway after school is.
The standard of First XV rugby at the moment is of an amazing level, it is amongst the best rugby to watch.let it be and lets force the ARU to get their ducks in a stack.

Stack Ducks????


WTF?

 

[behindtheshed]

Did Shore build that Hawker Stand to not only glorify schoolboy rugby but show the 'money' in the sport.

Does Grammar want to stay in the 3rds competition has now they have achieved the "glory" of winning.

Joeys not winning the premiership for the last 5 years reaffirm its not all about the "glory" of winning for their school. For St.Joesphs, losing a premiership is like the Australians losing the Rugby League World Cup to NEw Zealand……it "shouldn't" happen but it does. All for the "glory" of winning.

Only one question needs to be asked of Lambert. Were these boys already awaiting a place at Scots? In other words, if their families had applied to the school for their sons to attend as fee-paying students and were then offered bursaries, then that is okay - it is at the discretion of the school to sift through the applications and offer places (fee-paying or not) to students who have something to offer the school, whether in sport, academia, performing arts or leadership. All schools are welcome to do that. What appears to have taken place at Scots is that boys who were happily attending country Catholic high schools or a suburban Sydney public high school were pitchforked into Scots part-way through the year. It seems unlikely that the parents of a boy from Pennant Hills, Dubbo or Coffs Harbour had in fact been sweating it out on the waitlist of an ultra-Protestant Sydney boarding school and then voila! a place suddenly opened up in Term 3 of Year 10! What a stroke of luck!

It's obvious that what happened was recruitment after these boys were selected for U16 rep teams: the equivalent of a cold call from Scots. This is quite a different process and is morally questionable.

Someone from smh should ask GPS heads: were your new enrolments in senior years already applicants? Or were they approached cold?

No, I have no connection to Scots, nor to any of the boys in question. Just been around schools a long time and am adept at social media detective work.

More importantly, I joined this blog to read the rowing gossip. Can someone PLEASE post a course map of Junior Head of Parramatta River time trial? It must be more closely guarded than the Ark of the Covenant!