School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[SeaEagles]

W
Woohoo. Playing in a nationally televised Under20s comp that no one watches must be a real incentive. It's kinda like twenty six blokes on a footy field watching in awe their selfies. Surely that can't be a motivation for the switch?
When you start stripping comps or age groups of their players and squeezing them into higher grades always downgrades a comp. Never been a big fan of pushing U16s into opens for exactly that reason. Why can't a U16 comp be the best it can be? Things fall apart when everyone tries to circumvent a system and we end up with players with heads too big, feeling they've already 'made it', or simply burnt out especially when they play with older more experienced players who don't give a razoo for the golden child. Not everyone who is good can make the Wallabies, there's a huge graveyard of talented players who tried and failed but are in unmarked graves. That's the real glory of sport.

So what is your point?

Surely you must admit the quality of First XV rugby in Sydney and Brisbane is extremely high and is an entertaining spectacle for the many thousands who get out and watch it every weekend?

If that's the case thenwhy can't the ARU take advantage of that and manage those players who are contributing to this high standard of play, into a proper ARU pathway?

If we have brilliant young kids playing the game in elite school rugby competitions then surely this is an advantage for the game?

It's up to the those who administer the game to create a proper and sustainable pathway for the majority to keep playing Union.

Of course some will go to League that's a fact of life (see the SBW sideshow for an example even the Allblacks can't avoid getting sucked into!), but if the ARU get serious the amazing talent we are now seeing in First XV rugby could be kept for the benefit of our great game.

And for the record I never mentioned pushing players up or down in age groups. So I don't think that's relevant in the context of your reply. Nor your reference to burn out...don;t know what that has go to do with it either...unless you are saying First XV rugby should be limited to 2 trainings a week and don;t tackle too hard...

However, I do agree that not every one makes it and nor does everyone need to. More players playing and enjoying the game at any standard must be the other obvious goal in all of this.

 

[I like to watch]

You're on the wrong thread chief.
This one is about cheating by offering scholarships.
The GPS Glee club is elsewhere.
But for the record I'm with you.
The ARU should disband its development program and look in awe at the GPS boys.
Of course it goes without saying only GPS old boys should ever be considered by the franchises for pro contracts.
Subbies was designed to cater for the rest.

 

[Braveheart81]

Aside from the very, very best players, I don't think it is in the ARU's interests to turn these players into professionals right out of high school.

It is much better for these players to go and play Colts and/or Grade Rugby on the pathway to getting a Super Rugby contract.

Some will get Super Rugby contracts immediately but that is by far the exception.

The NRL is hardly setting these kids up for life by turning them into 'professionals' at age 17 or 18. Most of these players who play U20s for a couple of years don't actually graduate to the NRL and out of those that do, many have quite short careers.

The average NRL career is something like 40 games.

The NRL has a good pathway for creating good NRL players but along the way they are burning out and discarding many, many players along the way. The NRL has improved things in recent years by making sure every player is either undertaking vocational or university education along the way (including once they are an NRL player).

I think the ARU neither has the money to compete with the NRL in a similar way of paying so many players straight out of (or whilst they are at) high school nor should it.

 

[Braveheart81]

You're on the wrong thread chief.
This one is about cheating by offering scholarships.
The GPS Glee club is elsewhere.
But for the record I'm with you.
The ARU should disband its development program and look in awe at the GPS boys.
Of course it goes without saying only GPS old boys should ever be considered by the franchises for pro contracts.
Subbies was designed to cater for the rest.

Imagine how good Super Rugby would be if we could follow the GPS Waratahs, the GPS Reds and whatever the private school associations in the other states/territories.

Parking would be terrible though when the Tahs had a home game at Scots.

 

[Quick Hands]

Surely you must admit the quality of First XV rugby in Sydney and Brisbane is extremely high and is an entertaining spectacle for the many thousands who get out and watch it every weekend?

Some of the games are of high quality, no doubt about that I hear that Scots and New at Bellevue Hill was a cracker. But, many are not.

I was at Shore v Newington in the last round. New won something like 48-3, despite a penalty count IN FAVOUR of Shore of about 25-3. It was a stop/start boring fixture, which encapsulated many of the things that are wrong with schoolboy rugby. A mismatch of size and ability compounded by a refereeing display whose purpose seemed to be to even up the game. Shore would have spent about 80% of the match in possession in the New half, but didn't look like scoring a try.

This is to take nothing away from the undoubted ability of the New 1st XV, it's just an illustration that these matches/mismatches aren't always that entertaining. (particularly if you're on the receiving end)

 

[Quick Hands]

Of course it goes without saying only GPS old boys should ever be considered by the franchises for pro contracts.

And for senior offices and executive positions.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip>

Someone from smh should ask GPS heads: were your new enrolments in senior years already applicants? Or were they approached cold?

<snip>!

I reckon there are more parents ringing Scots (and other schools) cold than Scots (and other schools) approaching parents cold.

Crikey, there were 280 kids trying out for 43 slots in the Junior Gold Cup Under 17's on the weekend.

 

[Quick Hands]

I reckon there are more parents ringing Scots (and other schools) cold than Scots (and other schools) approaching parents cold.

Crikey, there were 280 kids trying out for 43 slots in the Junior Gold Cup Under 17's on the weekend.

More parents might ring than be rung, but it's the ones they ring who they're really after. Doesn't just apply to Scots, but they certainly do it in basketball.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

If they didn't ring who they're really after, then Sir Humphrey Lambert (and others) should be have a ready scapegoat in thier head of sport, when they are found with their hands in the cookie jar.

Just saying that the whole scholarship thing has lots of parents promoting the virtues of their offspring in the hope of landing a cheaper education.

Why wouldn't you as a parent? $30000 pa in fees = $60k before tax. If you can get a discount on that then well done you.

 

[I like to watch]

So what?
There is nothing wrong with parents trying to get their kids a leg up.
But try and ring one of these Schools unsolicited.
You would not get past the receptionist.
In any event,those that are offered,are those that the School has scouted.
And Hugh,you know that's wrong,no matter how often you try and reframe the issue.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I reckon there are more parents ringing Scots (and other schools) cold than Scots (and other schools) approaching parents cold.

Crikey, there were 280 kids trying out for 43 slots in the Junior Gold Cup Under 17's on the weekend.

None from Scots in u 17, 1 on his way from st pats to new but otherwise no Newington.

 

[The Incredible Plan]

None from Scots in u 17, 1 on his way from st pats to new but otherwise no Newington.

is anyone surprised by this?

Also thanks IS for your tireless research... "Inside Shoulder, Today at 4:00 AM"...

 

[Gary Owen III]

I reckon there are more parents ringing Scots (and other schools) cold than Scots (and other schools) approaching parents cold.

Crikey, there were 280 kids trying out for 43 slots in the Junior Gold Cup Under 17's on the weekend.

HJ - technical point but I might correct your maths here - there are 120 spots available for the metro area in the U17's (4 squads of 30). The lads whom made the NSW schools or SJRU U16 teams were given an automatic exemption - but i believe only 20 of these lads have taken up the offer. So effectively there are 100 spots up for grabs.

 

[SeaEagles]

You're on the wrong thread chief.
This one is about cheating by offering scholarships.
The GPS Glee club is elsewhere.
But for the record I'm with you.
The ARU should disband its development program and look in awe at the GPS boys.
Of course it goes without saying only GPS old boys should ever be considered by the franchises for pro contracts.
Subbies was designed to cater for the rest.

Yeah I think if you get the GPS pathway right then you can get the other channels right. Associated schools, clubs etc.

The facts are most pro rugby players in the last 10 years have come out of the GPS comps in Sydney and Brisbane, so it's the obvious place to focus.

That said, League are getting more than their fair share of this talent when they finish school - this is a major problem and it will get bigger.

A managed scholarship program by the GPS school association, in tandem with the ARU must be the goal.

Of course stopping the schools that incessantly bend the rules and ruin the even playing field is key to the above happening..

 

[FootyGuru]

I have been a viewer and even a coach of both AIC and GPS schools, there is a distinct difference between AIC and GPS when it comes to rugby and track and field but however in other sports not so much.

I believe the only difference is the GPS having the prestigious names get the 'better' players. These school import players where as AIC school mostly don't.

Students whom attend AIC schools also play numerous sports not just Rugby, this is not the case at prestigious GPS schools whereas if you want to play XV rugby that's is all you do unless you are a natural talent.

I believe in the younger grades AIC and GPS are very similar although once at the u16 age group that's where you see GPS stand out and above AIC. This is they have more scholarship students and better facilities to cater for these athletic and improve there physical performance

 

[The Incredible Plan]

The ACCC weighs in on duopolies and voluntary codes of conduct: Mr Sims said: “We have concerns with the code which relate primarily to its coverage. Our view is that if there is to be a code it should be effective, otherwise it would be better to have no code."

But if no code, then what?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The deluge

 

[Quick Hands]

But if no code, then what?

You get the open slather of Brisbane GPS, where from the information previously on this thread, most schools import over half of their team, some almost all of their teams. Apparently, this goes on right up until the start of term 3 of Year 12.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The Brisbane Schools manage to keep fees lower than the Sydney Schools despite all the alleged freeloaders. No mean feat.

 

[Quick Hands]

The Brisbane Schools manage to keep fees lower than the Sydney Schools despite all the alleged freeloaders. No mean feat.

A quick check indicates that Sydney and Melbourne GPS/APS schools fees are about the same and GPS/APS type schools in other cities are about $5,000 less - probably has something to do with cost of living in Sydney and Melbourne compared to other cities.
Year 12 fees (round figures with extras added in)

Newington $27,000
Syd Grammar $28,000
Melb Grammar $26,000
PAC Adelaide $21,000
ACGS Brisbane $21,000