School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Jasdec]

For those of you on the wrong side of the sandstone curtain it has been interesting reading The Land today and see the 8 page advertising titled Scholarships and Bursaries. The target market is obviously prospective Boarders and the following Schools have taken out advertising.
(in no particular order)

All Saints Bathurst
Barker College - Boarding Scholarships now open
Melbourne Grammar
Newington - Newington provides a sporting chance
Kings - Boarding, scholarships or bursaries
Scots PGC (Qld)
TSC - Means tested scholarships and bursaries
Knox - Regional Boarding Scholarships
Joeys - A number of scholarships are available

There are also similar numbers in Girls Schools however this thread doesn't mention them too much. (sexist?)

I will not try and reproduce it all here, however there are references to the individual websites for more information.

Main point out of all this is that individual schools will always provide assistance through academic, music, old boys/parents affiliation etc and it appears that "means tested" is a predominant feature.

No mention (except one) on % of assistance given.

These are obviously a many and varied beast which is an issue.

No mention of sporting scholarships funnily enough.

 

[forwards4ever]

I've raised water polo before in terms of Newington and Aloysius. The response from GPS supporters was that water polo was a minority sport and no-one really cared and it wasn't a real GPS competition it was a combined GPS/CAS competition. Without any personal knowledge of New water polo players I didn't comment further. The destination of choice of northern beaches water polo players seems to be Alos - 5 state level players have left Augustines to go to Alos in the past 4 years. If you have information about water polo at NC, let us know - if it's in breach of the code of practice, it should be noted as others are.

I did go on to the AAGPS website and the water polo results for the last 2 years are:

2012 1sts NC 1st, Alos 2nd, 2nds Cranbrook 1st, NC 2nd
2013 1sts NC 1st, Alos 2nd, 2nds NC 1st, TSC 2nd

I've never heard swimming raised before in terms of any school, so I went to the AAGPS website and looked at this year's results

Junior (12s-14s) NC 1st, TKS 2nd
Inter (15-16s) SIC 1st, SHS 2nd
Open (17+) SIC 1st, NC 2nd

Hard to see a NC swimming scholarship programme there (or from any school)

I also had a look at cricket results for last year
1sts Shore 1st, TSC 2nd
2nds SJC 1st, TKS 2nd

Soccer results
2013 1sts SIC, 2nds NC
2012 1sts SJC, 2nds SJC
2011 1sts TSC, 2nds NC

The most notable thing for me there was that Joeys won 1sts and 2nds soccer and not rugby in 2012.

Rowing too difficult to itemise as there's so many different divisions, but a look at the rowing results showed NC midfield at best.

A look at the NC website indicates that only 1% of their student body comes from the Northern Beaches, so if they are recruiting, they aren't doing much around here. (Although 4 or 5 of the 2013 1st XV came from here to NC at Year 9 or after and I've raised that critically on a number of occasions.)

New have scholarshipped Water polo players for years (know 2 who have graduated in the last 3 years), but don't think its whole teams of them. TSC also scholarship Water polo players, maybe theirs all come from the Shire (know of at least one from there)!

 

[Quick Hands]

Interesting that having one boy repeat Year 12 and row in a winning crew is being equated to the wholesale importation of basketball/rugby/water polo/cricket teams.

It's also been asserted that just because a school has committed a minor breach of the code of conduct at some point in the past, that school cannot object to systematic and sustained breaches of the code. Using that logic, no-one would ever report a crime to the police, because at some time in our lives we've all committed some minor breach of a rule or regulation.

 

[lincoln]

Interesting that having one boy repeat Year 12 and row in a winning crew is being equated to the wholesale importation of basketball/rugby/water polo/cricket teams.

It's also been asserted that just because a school has committed a minor breach of the code of conduct at some point in the past, that school cannot object to systematic and sustained breaches of the code. Using that logic, no-one would ever report a crime to the police, because at some time in our lives we've all committed some minor breach of a rule or regulation.

Interesting that having one boy repeat Year 12 and row in a winning crew is being equated to the wholesale importation of basketball/rugby/water polo/cricket teams.

It's also been asserted that just because a school has committed a minor breach of the code of conduct at some point in the past, that school cannot object to systematic and sustained breaches of the code. Using that logic, no-one would ever report a crime to the police, because at some time in our lives we've all committed some minor breach of a rule or regulation.

Absolutely agree. I think the point was no school is lily white.

 

[lincoln]

^^ Don't get too wrapped up in how good Harvard is.

Didn't one of the Fairfax boys come back from Harvard full of flow charts, processes and pretty graphs to go along with his Harvard Business School MBA?

Guess he may have been on the wrong side of the bell curve as well.

Don't think he was a rower.

Actually he did row. Was never a pub co CEO but is very happy where he is now.

 

[lincoln]

Did you say Harvard are offering scholarships too....incoming !!!!

They offer partial bursaries - but not on a means tested basis

 

[Quick Hands]

Actually he did row. Was never a pub co CEO but is very happy where he is now.

Which is the main thing.

 

[GPS Observer]

Out of interest, what would be the code of conduct and rules for the new "best Rugby competition" ie the one that TSC go and participate in and New hypothetically follow? Or is it open slather? This is not aimed at your post GPS Observer but I'm interested in where "the line" should and would be drawn in a new competion?

Cheers, I just think that the respect between the GPS schools is nil, as demonstrated by the public spat being played out by the Headmasters over Basketball. Under the circumstances I would like to see schools who support the idea of sporting scholarships move on and link up with other like minded schools and form new competitions....my interest is in Rugby and if Rugby scholarships means Scots and New cant play GPS rugby then I would like to see them continue the scholarships and play other schools... perhaps Knox and Oakhill....others that are on a similar path.
Since the GPS water polo is a hybrid of different school associations, it would be good if Scots and New could remain GPS whilst playing in that new Rugby competition but if they cant then I say leave the GPS and pursue your own internal policies, don't be bound by the policies of others.
No-ones right in this, schools just arrive at different positions at different times.

 

[Lindommer]

Interesting that having one boy repeat Year 12 and row in a winning crew.....

I though the earlier assertion (apparently from someone in the know) was the lad repeated year 10, not 12. That's wonderful foresight from Grammar knowing they're going to win the rowing in two years' time, and by 1.whatever seconds at that. Even better foresight by Joeys picking up that champion schoolboy rugby player Kurtley Beale in year 7.

There's no doubt the odd gifted sportsman gets some sort of financial assistance (if enough bursaries/scholarships are given out there's gotta be the odd diamond in there somewhere) but if it's not targetted I don't see any problems. We should keep in mind both the Grammar rower's circumstances and Beale's start at Joeys are vastly different from Scots', and Newington's, active recruiting.

 

[providence]

Sometimes individuals, businesses and institutions come out and say or do things they don't mean. Sometimes they follow each other for a variety of reasons. Schools can be similar.

When under genuine duress, whether observed publicly or not, they can come out fighting. One never puts a tiger in a corner. The person who gets hurt is not always in the wrong, sometimes it is the opposite but for a different unrelated reason.

All schools come under severe scrutiny at different points in time for a variety of reasons. I just genuinely hope that none of the 5 are having a 'Sarah, 2 men in a tinnie' moment. That said Normanhurst is not too far away these days.

 

[fsrugby]

Debate getting a bit hostile – all adds to the enjoyment of reading the posts!

However to all Scots ‘supporters’........
The current problem/issue has nothing to do with the name of your school and who likes you and who doesn’t. This is NOT an anti Scots debate or issue.

So why Scots??
Lambert refuses to acknowledge or accept that they have broken the code. This is just so amazing, that it just defies belief. Even some of the other Heads have acknowledged that they have broken the code. Lambert commissions a report that identifies 61 likely breaches, but he wants us to believe that there are 61 coincidences!! But many of us KNOW that there are breaches and plenty of them (more than 61!) – many Scots parents also KNOW – but their Head lies to them and says there are none.

If Lambert said – ‘we are doing no more than you’, to the other Schools, I would disagree, but at least admire his front, but to say none – it is just extraordinary!

Lambert in my view has just handled this very, very poorly – he has just buried his head in the sand – ‘we are doing nothing wrong’, ’we are doing nothing wrong’. All he had to do was say....
A) Ok we have gone too far, we will wind it back (the best answer!) OR
B) Our Sporting Scholarship levels are within acceptable bounds – lets debate this, change the code (which says 0) to a level which is acceptable by the majority. They only need 4 votes as High and TAS normally abstain from these ‘votes’. Scots & New plus 2?? OR
C) Hang on – you guys have been doing it for years

But no he lies to them and the whole Scots school community.

If you Scots supporters want to say – ‘bag Newington’ they are just as bad or worse, fine – but if you try and suggest that any of the other Schools are just as bad – well I am sorry, but that is just not the case (my allegiance is not to any of the ‘5’). No other Schools have ever gone as far as New & Scots have been in the last few years – whole teams!!

Rather than just think this is a baseless anti Scots ‘event’, I think it would be better if all Scots supporters, accepted they are at fault and encourage them to contact Scots and ask them to make some changes (your view might be small changes – my view is very large) – when you do that you will be doing them and every year 7 Scots boy a favour! All Newington supporters should do the same thing.

I thought it might be worth repeating a post from earlier in the year from GPSRow – note there are only two from the 1stXV in the team – one of whom was dropped a few weeks after this team was ‘posted’ and replaced by – you guessed it – another Scholarship boy. Only 2 boys in the 1stXV arrived in year 7 – the others were paratroopers (year 9 to 11). Scots Basketball 2013 and Scots Rugby 2014 would/will read just as badly. It is a joke – but it is not at all funny!

Newington's 1st XV (without bursaires/scholarships)
*Note: Should be correct as of my mate's nephew in the 3rd XV. Smart fella he is haha.

1.Kevin Stathis (Year 11, 2nd XV)
2. Campbell Shearer (Year 12, 2nd XV)
3. Declan LB/Reuben M ( both Year 12, both 3rd XV)
4. Will Makeig/ Ed Pollitt ( both Year 12, 3rd XV/2nd XV)
5. Frankie NS/ Tam Tang (both Year 12, both 3rd XV)
6. Jordan Roods ( Year 12, 2nd XV)
7. Stuart Mill (Year 12, 1st XV)
8. Tim Lee (Year 12, 2nd XV)
9. Dylan Shipshey/Liam O'connor ( Year 12/Year 11, 3rd XV/16A)
10. Sam Smyth (Year 11, 3rd XV)
11. Liam Bennett (Year 11, 2nd XV)
12. Josh Mitchell (Year 12, 1st XV)
13. Micheal Kambas (Year 11, 2nd XV)
14. Pat Kneuzle (Year 10, 2nd/3rd XV)
15. Michael Z ( Year 12, 2nd XV)

 

[strokeside]

The stroke repeated Yr10, refer to HOTR Yr10 VIIIs for 2007 & 2008
http://www.rowingnsw.asn.au/regattas/07-08/
Was in the 6 seat first time, in a crew that came 2nd in a super fast time of 6.12. Following year he was in the stroke seat of a crew that won, also in a super fast time of 6.12. This individual was also the age swimming champion. Quiet an athlete!

Ho-hum, one more time for the non-believers, He DID NOT repeat, you took that info from the rowing site, he rowed in that yr10VIII in yr 9! a gifted rower, yes. It caused many questions at the time, Occasionally Grammar throws-up an outstanding athlete. EG: in the 1st XV this year, the No.12, Sheldon, is in yr9. Was Ditmarsch on reduced fees, yes, his mother was the SGS Sports Master, I think all the schools have reduced fees for children of senior staff. Wafer thin distraction!

 

[scaraby]

Ho-hum, one more time for the non-believers, He DID NOT repeat, you took that info from the rowing site, he rowed in that yr10VIII in yr 9! a gifted rower, yes. It caused many questions at the time, Occasionally Grammar throws-up an outstanding athlete. EG: in the 1st XV this year, the No.12, Sheldon, is in yr9. Was Ditmarsch on reduced fees, yes, his mother was the SGS Sports Master, I think all the schools have reduced fees for children of senior staff. Wafer thin distraction!

stop quoting the truth SS you arent allowed to have facts on this thread

 

[Quick Hands]

Rather than just think this is a baseless anti Scots ‘event’, I think it would be better if all Scots supporters, accepted they are at fault and encourage them to contact Scots and ask them to make some changes (your view might be small changes – my view is very large) – when you do that you will be doing them and every year 7 Scots boy a favour! All Newington supporters should do the same thing.

I thought it might be worth repeating a post from earlier in the year from GPSRow – note there are only two from the 1stXV in the team – one of whom was dropped a few weeks after this team was ‘posted’ and replaced by – you guessed it – another Scholarship boy. Only 2 boys in the 1stXV arrived in year 7 – the others were paratroopers (year 9 to 11). Scots Basketball 2013 and Scots Rugby 2014 would/will read just as badly. It is a joke – but it is not at all funny!

I've edited your post in my reply only to save space - it's a fairly good summary of the issues at hand.

Dr Lambert's attitude is a mystery - usually when one's peers confront you with evidence and ask you to modify what you're doing, it's a pretty good indication that you've gone too far. Dr Lambert's peers seem a fairly responsible group of men, so one assumes that they've had informal discussions with him prior to any actions. Scots supporters are almost fanatical in defence of their school - mostly straight denials of anything happening at all.

One assumes that something has been said by the Head of Newington to the others, as there seems to have been no public mention of the 2012/13 rugby teams. From previous posts, there seems to have been some dispensation asked for on the basis of a small year group - although I'm sure the others didn't expect them to go out and recruit an entire 1st XV. It's also possible that the Newington parent body have had something to say as well. It's worth noting that Newington supporters didn't attempt to defend the indefensible on this thread, they either remained silent or spoke about giving boys an opportunity - no attempt to deny that the team was recruited.

Their 2nd XV and 16As were both reasonably weak this year and I think many of their current 1st XV are finishing school this year - so we'll find out soon enough if the boys from those 2 teams are playing 1sts next year or a group of imports.

 

[Spieber]

Ho-hum, one more time for the non-believers, He DID NOT repeat, you took that info from the rowing site, he rowed in that yr10VIII in yr 9! a gifted rower, yes. It caused many questions at the time, Occasionally Grammar throws-up an outstanding athlete. EG: in the 1st XV this year, the No.12, Sheldon, is in yr9. Was Ditmarsch on reduced fees, yes, his mother was the SGS Sports Master, I think all the schools have reduced fees for children of senior staff. Wafer thin distraction!

Indeed he rowed in Yr8 Quads the previous year. My bad.

 

[strokeside]

stop quoting the truth SS you arent allowed to have facts on this thread

Yeh, facts and truth do tend to spoil the fun

 

[It is what it is]

I have no vested interests in any of the schools or outcomes but it seems that Dr Lambert may have to fall on his sword.
Anyone else here think this is going to get better with time without some strike breaking measure soon?

 

[forwards4ever]

I find it incredible that the parent body of TSC can stand by as their Principal lies to both themselves and the community at large! Everyone on this thread knows at least one boy recruited there for their talent (I know Water Polo and Rugby talents). The boys know who's there because of their talent, on lesser fees.
As a parent if you stand by and allow Lambert to go on unchallenged from within, you are telling your son that the lesson is if you can get away with it, its OK!" Great lesson from an educator!!!
I hope some sane people within are starting a push for change!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I have no vested interests in any of the schools or outcomes but it seems that Dr Lambert may have to fall on his sword.
Anyone else here think this is going to get better with time without some strike breaking measure soon?

What I really like about this is that thoughtful people, for the most part, are turning their minds to the implications for our great game - the game they play in heaven.
Joust on - somewhere in here lies the truth and the road to the betterment of the game we will play in heaven, even those of us who doubt its existence.

 

[lincoln]

What I really like about this is that thoughtful people, for the most part, are turning their minds to the implications for our great game - the game they play in heaven.
Joust on - somewhere in here lies the truth and the road to the betterment of the game we will play in heaven, even those of us who doubt its existence.

IS, I think you have previously surmised the problem as one of a narrowing base, whereby you are increasingly relying on your stars at 16 being your stars in their mid-20s.