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School sporting scholarships/recruitment

GPS Observer

Herbert Moran (7)
Hope you continue the pursuit of excellence Scots and New.
If the others want to play with you then play, if not then other opportunities will arise.
But don't be held back , the world is constantly changing, so go for it.
 

Eggsie

Stan Wickham (3)
Maybe the answer is to reduce the importance of the schoolboy system with its short season and lack of finals program and increase the focus on club rugby? At club players are less impacted by socio-economic factors and players from all strata can provide a group from which our top teams can be selected. As I am sure that I have posted before -Eales, Tune, Herbert, Horan, McCall, Crowley - not everyone went to a GPS school...
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Maybe the answer is to reduce the importance of the schoolboy system with its short season and lack of finals program and increase the focus on club rugby? At club players are less impacted by socio-economic factors and players from all strata can provide a group from which our top teams can be selected. As I am sure that I have posted before -Eales, Tune, Herbert, Horan, McCall, Crowley - not everyone went to a GPS school.

That's what most people who have the interests of rugby at heart would like to see.
 

It is what it is

John Solomon (38)
Hope you continue the pursuit of excellence Scots and New.
If the others want to play with you then play, if not then other opportunities will arise.
But don't be held back , the world is constantly changing, so go for it.
Yep damn any rules, full speed ahead.
If you can break import rules then why not take performance enhancement drugs, build a longer and wider field, poison the opposition's water...just bloody well go for it.
Then when school finishes these fine young men with these ingrained morals and values can become leaders of our society.
 

Jaghond

Ted Fahey (11)
Thanks for reminding us of the not-so-wonderful OB’s, HJ.
I am sure that EVERY school has an OB or OG that has probably brought some form of discredit to their Alma Mater at some point in time.

But with any luck, there are many more that the Schools would be very proud to hold out as aspirational OB’s or OG’s….

On the flip side – and hopefully to trump your Jack of Spades with my King of Diamonds – Here are 2 NON-sporting related OB’s of Scots – which hopefully shows that some good people DO actually come out of the place, too:

· Professor Graeme Clark A.C., the then Foundation Professor of the Department of Otolaryngology at Melbourne Uni in 1970, led the team that developed the Australian prototype bionic ear, which was implanted into the first patient, Rod Saunders, in 1978 ( extracted from Wikipedia).

· Another notable OB – who has also had his run-ins with “the Establishment” – is Dr Charlie Teo.

Ask some of THEIR patinets how THEY view these 2 OB's

The Hound
(Edit to amed unintentional change in font size.Apologies)
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Scots even managed to get GPS basketball and sporting scholarships onto Channel 9s WWOS this morning.

Tellingly the reporter from the Herald on the panel highlighted the hypobaric chamber and the fact the TSC received $5,000,000 from the government last year.

Most of the panel seemed to go along with the Hawkes doctrine; 1 or 2 are ok, but not full teams. Melinda Gainsford also noted the effect on the boys who have been there since year 7 and have worked hard to make 1sts or 2nds to have boys brought in over the top.
 

It is what it is

John Solomon (38)
Thanks for reminding us of the not-so-wonderful OB’s, HJ.
I am sure that EVERY school has an OB or OG that has probably brought some form of discredit to their Alma Mater at some point in time.

But with any luck, there are many more that the Schools would be very proud to hold out as aspirational OB’s or OG’s….

On the flip side – and hopefully to trump your Jack of Spades with my King of Diamonds – Here are 2 NON-sporting related OB’s of Scots – which hopefully shows that some good people DO actually come out of the place, too:

· Professor Graeme Clark A.C., the then Foundation Professor of the Department of Otolaryngology at Melbourne Uni in 1970, led the team that developed the Australian prototype bionic ear, which was implanted into the first patient, Rod Saunders, in 1978 ( extracted from Wikipedia).

· Another notable OB – who has also had his run-ins with “the Establishment” – is Dr Charlie Teo.

Ask some of THEIR patinets how THEY view these 2 OB's

The Hound
(Edit to amed unintentional change in font size.Apologies)
Yes there have been some fantastic old boys from Scots but as Pierre the famous french fighter pilot once said "You scku 1 #@%&# *&%#"
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
On the flip side – and hopefully to trump your Jack of Spades with my King of Diamonds – Here are 2 NON-sporting related OB’s of Scots – which hopefully shows that some good people DO actually come out of the place, too:

· Professor Graeme Clark A.C., the then Foundation Professor of the Department of Otolaryngology at Melbourne Uni in 1970, led the team that developed the Australian prototype bionic ear, which was implanted into the first patient, Rod Saunders, in 1978 ( extracted from Wikipedia).

· Another notable OB – who has also had his run-ins with “the Establishment” – is Dr Charlie Teo.

Ask some of THEIR patinets how THEY view these 2 OB's

The Hound
(Edit to amed unintentional change in font size.Apologies)

Well said.
It should also be remembered that the character of the boys in any of the programmes at Scots is not at issue, what's at issue is the methods employed by the school to get them there.
 

whatever

Darby Loudon (17)
whatever this so true.
Stan Pilecki's Left Nut in suggesting that warehousing u18 rugby talent in what you consider an innovative hothouse is likely to help oz rugby you overlook the lack of correlation between u18 talent and wallaby potential.
It is very difficult to pick which 14, 15 etc player will be up to wallaby or even s15. All these schools are interested in is getting the best u 18s they can.
I reckon the Wobblies performances actually reflect the drop in participation outside the private schools which is contributed To by poaching.

Yeah I/S, fully agree.

The selective sport high schools have been a complete failure in NSW; they have warehoused recognised talented young sports people into 6 or so schools; leaving the (normal) high schools without the talented (sports) pupils to raise the standard of other pupils.

The state schools now have miminal competitive sport compeitions (within their zones and regions). The sport high schools rarely play in week to week competitions.

Remember, competition raises the standard of any and all sports.

Add to this the scholarship actions in the GPS and the diocese Catholic schools (mainly rugby league); competition is further reduced.

This year the 1st, 2nd and 3rd open league sides at Patrician Brothers Blacktown would have beaten 95% of the school teams around the nation. They beat Farrer Ag College 88-0 in the GIO Cup; Farrer went on to finish in the top 4 of the Waratah Shield (union) and were runners up in the University Shield (league).

Queensland, I believe, have a similar system. Keebra Park High actually advertises their rugby league scholarships overseas (mainly NZ). It sees itself as a rugby league centre of excellence; f**k education or being a secondary education institution. Unbelieveably, Australian taxes are paying for young NZers (most would agree, it is not a 3rd world country) to attend a rugby league centre of excellece.

The system is wrong and needs to change or we will continue to see the slide of senior rugby union and cricket to name two sports.
 

hughbert

Herbert Moran (7)
Newington 1st XV - Sporting Summer and Winter

1. Vunipola - GPS Athletics - Shotput
2. Serhorn - Rowing - 4th IV
3. Mesui - GPS Athletics - Shotput
4. Anthony Vasilis - Injured in summer season.
5. Prassas - Basketball - 1sts
6. Morris - Cricket - 1st XI
7. Mill - Crossfit
8. Cannell - Cricket - 1st XI
9. Joey Lussick - GPS swimming - Rugby league in summer
10. Lachlan Anderson - Cricket - 1st XI
11. Sepesa - GPS Athletics - Track.
12. Abrahams - Crossfit.
13. Tepai - GPS Athletics - Shotput - Rugby league in summer.
14. Kennewell - GPS Athletics - Rowing - 4th IV
15. Tanne - Rugby League in summer - Crossfit.

Reserves

Josh Mitchell - 1sts Basketball - GPS Athletics

Sorry, but "crossfit" does not qualify.
 

hughbert

Herbert Moran (7)
Scots brought in at least 3 guys whose names I remember for basketball in 98. I don't remember it being a big deal back then but that was before the information explosion. Most of us wondered why they'd bothered, given that precisely zero people give a fuck about GPS basketball.

My recollections suggest that they were given a pass from playing winter sports.

Disclaimer: Obviously I was not privy to the fee arrangements that these guys were attending the school under, but it seemed like a very open secret that they were recruited at the time.
 

GPSrow

Watty Friend (18)
Just found it quite interesting to note that if Newington's 1sts Basketball would've won the last game against Scots (they lost by 2 or 3 points), that would've meant a Co-premiership for Basketball as well as Rugby.

Interesting our both schools (Newington and Scots) have been "caught out" so spectacularly in this year's most 'controversial' sports.
 

fsrugby

Frank Nicholson (4)
I still have high hopes that this current drama will lead to change – I hope the gang of 5 hold firm.

To Lambert I make the following comments
Listen to the majority of the parents of your current students (and your staff!) – I have bumped into more on the weekend – again the sentiment is almost universal – ‘We are glad it is in the Media, let’s hope it leads to changes’ – very, very few of the people that should be happy with what you are doing are happy!!
I know a boy at your School on a Rugby Scholarship – his parents may not be wealthy and therefore your ‘Melbourne expert’ will no doubt find that they are ‘economically disadvantaged’ and therefore are entitled to a ‘bursary’ BUT this boy was pursued for his Rugby having being chased after being spotted at Rep Rugby, not because his parents are not wealthy - this means that he is on a RUGBY scholarship and any attempt by you to argue otherwise is offensive. Otherwise go to the local Centrelink office and do random recruiting there (nobody would have a problem with that).
Virtually everybody – employees and parents of Scots know that Scots has been going too far – please wind your program back and just inform the gang of 5 that you will be doing so. You are losing face amongst your own community as you continue to claim you are doing nothing wrong, even though most know that Scots are.

To numerous other posters on this Forum
Yes we all know Scholarships have been happening for decades – and yes I can understand why you might think Joeys and Kings are hypocrites to be in the gang of 5. I was once told that half of Joeys 60 plus Wallabies arrived at Joeys on Scholarships. I also know that GPS rules say no sporting Scholarships NOT some. But Newington and Scots (Basketball) this year have just gone way way too far – and it looks like Scots are heading for a ‘Newington’ year next year in Rugby. If the trend continues it will ruin GPS sport.
And yes I have no idea how Newington, the worst offender this year in Rugby, have got off almost Scot free (sorry for the double pun) – I can only assume they have admitted guilt and told the gang of 5 that they will come into line. What has been more painful for the respective schools, Scots digging in and lying, or Newington just coming into line????
I could now start on why the policy of ‘Parachuting’ in multiple (whole teams!) of NSW representative players in year 9 and 10 in any sport is such a terrible thing to do to the existing boys at any School – but I think that has been covered enough. From Scots home webpage “Our College vision is singularly focused on the education, nurture and development ........” - suffice to say their treatment of those boys that have been parachuted over is not nurturing or developing.
It goes without saying that the boys who are on Scholarships (and their parents) are at no way at fault – no anger or disappointment should be directed to or at them.

I repeat my suggested ‘solution’ from an early post of mine
1. Unlimited Scholarships – but they can ONLY be given out in year 7. No School can afford to carry 13 or 14 ‘free’ boys (New 2013 1stXV’s effort!) for 6 years. A Scholarship boy from year 7 becomes a part of the School – it stops the Scots 16A rugby scenario which is not healthy. It is also much harder sometimes to pick the year 12 stars in year 7 – few boys that make the primary School NSW team(s) also make the under 18’s team – this will deter them from going too berserk.
2. Any exceptions to the above is OK only if agreed to by a majority of the other GPS Schools – for eg because of Newington’s demographic and because of boys leaving the sport because of the madness of the last few years, they may have trouble fielding the appropriate numbers in the opens (No 3rdXV!) – under these circumstances the other Schools may agree to some later additional intake.
3. Adopt the Shore and Iggies game day program approach – they list every team the boys have played in during their time at the School. Providing this information to the host School and printing it in your program on your game days is compulsory. Eg Tom Smith, 13d (Soccer), 14e, 15c, 16a, 2nds. This stops them getting away with anything improper. Any boys that are down as starting in the 15’s or 16’s can be easily researched – just a walk down the sidelines will find out if they are full fee paying or on Scholarship – the beauty of teenagers is that there are no secrets!
 

GPSrow

Watty Friend (18)
GPSRow is it true that there is a boy who was in Firsts Basketball and First Rugby who was also Dux of year 11 in 2012? If so I'm informed that boy is on a pure academic scholarship

This boy was quite a late bloomer to the sport of Rugby.

He originally came to the school in year 9 on an all-rounder type of scholarship. Being half for academic half for basketball. Funnily enough, he tried out for the 15 d's in his first ever rugby training and didn't know anything else but how to run it straight. Nek Minnut. NSW U16s, played in the 2nd XV in year 10, 2 1st XV premierships and a gurnsey in the GPS 2s or 3s.

"If I don't know what to do, I just ask Ando (lachlan Anderson)" - George Prassas.
 

Stan Pilecki's Left Nut

Bob McCowan (2)
Gee that's a bit of a rant FSRugby. Did someone more skilled than you or your son drop in via parachute and ruin your sweet schoolboy cozy pond?
How tragic life is...so dramatic.

Listen you'd do well to brush up on your spelling "I can understand why you might think Joeys and Kings are hypercritics" Maybe you flunked English but excelled at Drama :)
 

Muglair

Alfred Walker (16)
At the risk of saying nothing new we now need to move into the 21st Century. Many other quaint elite Public School propositions have thankfully passed on as the distinction between Gentlemen and Professionals fades and it is no longer a requirement that an Amateur captain the English Cricket Team (although maybe there is some merit for this as a new ACB initiative).

Far from criticising Dr Lambert, as has been done widely on these pages, I applaud his stance against the Gang of Five. Clearly they have waffled into their ports and decided that Scots has exceeded the imaginary limit of illicit scholarships and decided it is time to bring them back into line (ref: Tim Hawkes: SMH). They send letters in unison and arrange to meet him in turn, no doubt to speak sternly to him and procure undertakings on the reduction in number of scholarships.

I bet they can't even agree on the imaginary limit and even if they did, half of them would be breaching it! What arrogance, what dishonesty, what bully boy behaviour. When he demonstrates that he is not for such turning the individual meetings are cancelled. That looks like typical bully boy behaviour as well.

If there is some grand plan at Scots for the physical and sporting development of all boys then Dr Lambert has no choice but to stand up and be prepared to be accountable, to the other schools and the Scots community. I understand the scepticism related to the appointment by Scots of an external reviewer. However it is only the appropriate first step, he has offered to open his books and the other GPS schools are free to accept or reject the initial report.

We desperately need to have these issues totally out in the open so each school community can judge for itself the directions being taken. It could well be that this widespread concern amongst the Scots community is in fact why Dr Lambert wishes to bring everything out in the open so that people can judge for themselves.

If as inferred elsewhere that the real concerns relate to 2014 sporting teams then that can be revealed and judged. If some rumours are true then the practices must be exposed so that the school community itself can record its own judgement.

This innuendo has been going for generations and it is time it is put to bed. We all accept that this is happening in secrecy and leap to the presumption in the face of rumour and results that Scots and Newington must have cheated the system (myself included). So much for the quality of our own education.
 

Muglair

Alfred Walker (16)
I still have high hopes that this current drama will lead to change – I hope the gang of 5 hold firm.

I repeat my suggested ‘solution’ from an early post of mine
1. Unlimited Scholarships – but they can ONLY be given out in year 7. No School can afford to carry 13 or 14 ‘free’ boys (New 2013 1stXV’s effort!) for 6 years. A Scholarship boy from year 7 becomes a part of the School – it stops the Scots 16A rugby scenario which is not healthy. It is also much harder sometimes to pick the year 12 stars in year 7 – few boys that make the primary School NSW team(s) also make the under 18’s team – this will deter them from going too berserk.
2. Any exceptions to the above is OK only if agreed to by a majority of the other GPS Schools – for eg because of Newington’s demographic and because of boys leaving the sport because of the madness of the last few years, they may have trouble fielding the appropriate numbers in the opens (No 3rdXV!) – under these circumstances the other Schools may agree to some later additional intake.
3. Adopt the Shore and Iggies game day program approach – they list every team the boys have played in during their time at the School. Providing this information to the host School and printing it in your program on your game days is compulsory. Eg Tom Smith, 13d (Soccer), 14e, 15c, 16a, 2nds. This stops them getting away with anything improper. Any boys that are down as starting in the 15’s or 16’s can be easily researched – just a walk down the sidelines will find out if they are full fee paying or on Scholarship – the beauty of teenagers is that there are no secrets!

Transparency is so much easier to enforce than regulation. Suggestion 3 is so easy to implement that it should be compulsory (despite the apparent contradiction)

I disagree with 1 and 2 though. Each school has to be accountable and responsible for its own destiny. Accountability is important, especially to its own stakeholders. Full fee paying students (including Old Boys that paid the full freight) and other financial supporters need to see the demonstrated value to the whole student body of the apparently significant number of bursaries etc being provided.

Giving a school a concession because of a miserable failure in nurturing its own sporting teams appears counter intuitive to me.
 
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