School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Inside Shoulder]

Noted but you made a blanket statement - "There is no doubt that the GPS virtual blanket prohibition on kids playing village rugby, from which the kids they are poaching often come, undermines village rugby" - there was no qualification in your post about it being about just players older than U16s level.

Read it whichever way gives you the most justification for poaching.

 

[gpsoldboy]

Read it whichever way gives you the most justification for poaching.

That's just a plain narky response. You made a blanket comment about GPS schools prohibiting their rugby players from being involved in club/village rugby. I provided an alternate view which you subsequently agreed with (ie that it only seemed to apply to boys at over U16 level). My comments did not involve or address the issues of poaching or scholarships but only corrected your erroneous blanket statement.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

That's just a plain narky response. You made a blanket comment about GPS schools prohibiting their rugby players from being involved in club/village rugby. I provided an alternate view which you subsequently agreed with (ie that it only seemed to apply to boys at over U16 level). My comments did not involve or address the issues of poaching or scholarships but only corrected your erroneous blanket statement.

I don't agree with you - most of the schools prevent their u16's from playing as well: that's why there is an odd rule that permits a kid to play u 16 state champs even if he is not registered for village rugby provided he was registered for u15.
I think you are either deliberately ignoring or do not understand the bigger picture.
Keep up the poaching to see what happens, in the meantime here's a link to the definition of the word "context".
And you might want to check "virtual" too

 

[gpsoldboy]

The whole rugby under age system, at least in NSW, is fractured. There is no doubt that the GPS virtual blanket prohibition on kids playing village rugby, from which the kids they are poaching often come, undermines village rugby.

I don’t agree with this. My experience and observations have been that GPS schools wholeheartedly support their rugby players playing at village/club rugby level and want their boys to play as much rugby as possible. Every weekend you'll see plenty of GPS boys backing up after their Saturday games to play in the Sunday SJRU competitions. It is only at post U16s level that there is any suggestion or edict that players at Opens level restrict their weekend rugby mainly due to the increased physicality of the game at that age.

That is precisely the level I am talking about - hence my reference to kids appearing at Newington after the u16s champs.

Noted but you made a blanket statement - "There is no doubt that the GPS virtual blanket prohibition on kids playing village rugby, from which the kids they are poaching often come, undermines village rugby" - there was no qualification in your post about it being about just players older than U16s level.

Read it whichever way gives you the most justification for poaching.

That's just a plain narky response. You made a blanket comment about GPS schools prohibiting their rugby players from being involved in club/village rugby. I provided an alternate view which you subsequently agreed with (ie that it only seemed to apply to boys at over U16 level).

I don't agree with you - most of the schools prevent their u16's from playing as well: that's why there is an odd rule that permits a kid to play u 16 state champs even if he is not registered for village rugby provided he was registered for u15. I think you are either deliberately ignoring or do not understand the bigger picture. Keep up the poaching to see what happens, in the meantime here's a link to the definition of the word "context".

And you might want to check "virtual" too

Wow...being a nark just comes so naturally to some! There are plenty of boys at GPS schools playing for suburban/village clubs on weekends at U16's level. Check out the playing lists for teams like Hunters Hill, Lindfield, Norths Pirates, Beecroft, Dural etc..

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Wow.being a nark just comes so naturally to some! There are plenty of boys at GPS schools playing for suburban/village clubs on weekends at U16's level. Check out the playing lists for teams like Hunters Hill, Lindfield, Norths Pirates, Beecroft, Dural etc..

Where does one get these "playing lists"?
Here's another link - HH have multiple under age teams.....and then:
http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/huntershilljuniorrugbyclub/j/team-news-32105.html?news_id=894057

 

[lincoln]

Wow.being a nark just comes so naturally to some! There are plenty of boys at GPS schools playing for suburban/village clubs on weekends at U16's level. Check out the playing lists for teams like Hunters Hill, Lindfield, Norths Pirates, Beecroft, Dural etc..

Implicit pressure is brought to bear on A level players after about the 13s - try doing well in a semi when 4 of your best players do not turn up - happened. No one gave a toss about one of my sons playing until U16 as he was not in the picture for a high team. 2/3rds of his club side were GPS/CAS students - not one was in an A team.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Implicit pressure is brought to bear on A level players after about the 13s - try doing well in a semi when 4 of your best players do not turn up - happened. No one gave a toss about one of my sons playing until U16 as he was not in the picture for a high team. 2/3rds of his club side were GPS/CAS students - not one was in an A team.

You sprung my trap too quickly: perhaps you really are Abraham Lincoln

 

[Gristlechewer]

Implicit pressure is brought to bear on A level players after about the 13s - try doing well in a semi when 4 of your best players do not turn up - happened. No one gave a toss about one of my sons playing until U16 as he was not in the picture for a high team. 2/3rds of his club side were GPS/CAS students - not one was in an A team.

I know that SJC won't let there top lads play village, but can you see Mssrs Rapp, Mumm and Kelly going "Sure boys, go and get smashed on a Sunday by some gumby and not play the season? And maybe stop me from delivering one of my KPI's to the Exec team at school? With my blessing... Just do me out of a job Kiddo! " NOT...
Come on GPSOldboy, you should know better... I 100% support IS's stance on this. (And I said that I wasn't going to contribute.)

 

[CTPE]

Reading through the posts about GPS players playing rugby for club teams I think both of the main protagonist posters have valid points. There is no doubt that a number of GPS schools do not approve of (and in some cases prohibit) their Opens high level players (1sts & 2nds) from playing club rugby on the weekend. You'll find however a number of 3rds and below boys playing for their village clubs on Sundays if they can handle backing up after after their Saturday school game.

As for GPS players younger than 16 there are a large number of 13's, 14's, 15's and even 16's GPS A's players that play for their club as well as their school on weekends. The main reason for this is that there is no rep rugby open to them at schoolboy level until they reach U16's and can gain selection in the GPS President's U16's team that play in the NSW Schools Championships. At U13-15's level the only rep rugby open to them is via Junior club at the State Championships and then the SJRU and NSWJRU age rep teams.

 

[sarcophilus]

Where does one get these "playing lists"?
Here's another link - HH have multiple under age teams...and then:
http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/huntershilljuniorrugbyclub/j/team-news-32105.html?news_id=894057

sign on sheets are visible on budah if you can negotiate your way through it
this tells you who is registered or on the sign on sheets, not necessarily who played, but it is a start

 

[Hugh Jarse]

And from buddah you can check the players listed in the NSW State championships programme for the various district teams to see if the club that they are registered with is a registration of convenience or if they are genuinely playing Village Club Footy.

I have done this for the past 3 years and there are some very interesting discrepencies at Under 15 and Under 16 level, with the most "ghost" players in Under 16 level. But that is for another thread which will fire up in about a month.

 

[Jasdec]

Wasn't too sure where to post this however I happened to be in sunny Dubbo on the weekend and decided to watch the Dubbo Roos Blues (17s) v Reds (16s) local Darby. Was amused to see a huge number 17 run on for the Reds much to the dismay of the opposition and their mothers. Mr J Bowditch then left the field before the kickoff much to the Blues relief. Shortly thereafter Messrs A Crichton and C Styles turned up wanting a game against the Blues with Mr Bowditch and armed with their ARU registration numbers and a keenness to play Rugby. They were declined the opportunity as they were not registered with Central West however they were not to be put off and offered to pay the rego fee of $50 to get a game. In the end it was up to the coaches and whilst the Reds Coach was very keen the Blues Coach was not that enamoured of the idea and that was the end of that. I did overhear that if Mr Styles, NSW Country and NSWU16 player would like to sign on for the Country Champs he would be most welcome.
It was a sad indictment on the game that day that these three and another 4 country boys at GPS Schools in year 11 couldn't get a game however: the Blues Coach was also a Central West Coach and knew the form line of these imports (in Dubbo for a Yr11 Dance) and was not to be hoodwinked. A number of the parents (reds) were disappointed that there young blokes couldn't have the experience of playing with these rep players. Any comments on how it should have been handled?

 

[Jasdec]

Geez sorry about the spelling above. A bottle of red apparently stuffs your thumbs.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Reading the Waratah Shield thread, there are only 3 regular state high schools entered, but 4 selective sports high.

This accounts for up to 80 players who have been given what is effectively a scholarship to entice them away from regular high schools.

Whilst what is going on in the GPS/CAS may not be ideal isn't what is going on with selective sports high schools in the CHS of far greater concern to school level rugby (and all sports for that matter) and involves greater numbers.

Generates few comments on this thread however.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Reading the Waratah Shield thread, there are only 3 regular state high schools entered, but 4 selective sports high.

This accounts for up to 80 players who have been given what is effectively a scholarship to entice them away from regular high schools.

Whilst what is going on in the GPS/CAS may not be ideal isn't what is going on with selective sports high schools in the CHS of far greater concern to school level rugby (and all sports for that matter) and involves greater numbers.

Generates few comments on this thread however.

Would these kids have got a game if they had stayed at their comprehensive high schools?
Are more kids playing rugby than would have been? I suspect "yes" because some/many/most (?) are league players for whom this is the only union they play.
I doubt they are prevented from playing village rugby by their schools - they probably are by the NRL clubs to which they are attached though! Compare the number of old boys of Westfield Sports High playing in the NRL mentioned on their "prospectus" with the numbers mentioned in the Union section.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Inside Shoulder]

sign on sheets are visible on budah if you can negotiate your way through it
this tells you who is registered or on the sign on sheets, not necessarily who played, but it is a start

But then I'd need to know which school's the kids go to and what team they play in at school - sounds like stalking

 

[Hugh Jarse]

A real interesting situation you have posed Jasdec.

How it should have been handled depends on Dubbo Roos Club policy. The Club President and Committee should have been consulted. At the most simple level, three players rocked up on game day wanting to register for the club and play some footy. Why would the Club turn those players away, and deny them the ability to register with the Roos?

Some background information:
Of the three young men mentioned, I believe that two are in Sydney NGS and the other is most likely in Country NGS or JGS. Unlike previous years the JGS/NGS lists for NSW have not been publicly released.
Two of these young fellows attend their city GPS School on full fare: No Scholarship or any other fee assistance that I am aware of, even though they have certain advanced athletic skills.
One of them was registered with a Sydney club that played in the Under 16B division last year but to the best of my knowledge never played for them, although managed to be eligible to represent the District at NSW State Championships time.
This individual was selected for a SJRU Zone team, but did not play at the Zone championships which are held as a trial to select the Sydney JRU team for National Under 16's tournament.
The other city based player was apparently injured at the time of State Championships and NSW Schools RU U16 championships, but was selected for the NSW Schools U16 team.

Dubbo Roos Reds seem to be an Under 16 team playing in a combined U16/U17 competition.
The three lads mentioned are not qualified to play in an Under 16 team, but would be most welcome by any U16 team in a U16/U17 competition to "bolster" the size of the U16 team. Players of the calibre of these three (plus the other 4 country GPS boarders mentioned) playing for the Under 16 team would most likely have resulted in a victory for the Under 16 (assumed underdog) team. The Under 17 Coach clearly understood that this would be the most likely result and this may have been one of his main objections to playing a game against the U16’s and invited guests.

Conspiracy theory 1. The lads are out to qualify for NSW State Championships U17 eligibility or the NSW JRU U17 team for the AJRU “National U17 Championships”.
The NSW JRU State Champs competition rules require the player to have played at least 4 club competition matches in 2012 or 2013 (implied is that these games could comprise two games in 2012 and two games in 2013) for a junior club or country town within the District/Zone they are seeking to play for.
The rules also require the player to be a registered club player, and must have completed the requirements of ARU registration in 2013 with an affiliate of NSWJRU.
By registering with Dubbo Roos, a Central West Zone club, the three players could only rock up at State Champs for Central West if they had played 4 games for a club in the Central West Zone in 2012 or 2013. With one of the lads registered with a Sydney District in 2012, the two washouts, one forfeit and a Bye that would have qualified as “games played” in 2012 or 2013 only count if they were attempting to play for that same Sydney District. In this case being registered for Dubbo Roos, they don't count because the 2012 “games played” are not for the 2013 District/zone they would be registered for in 2013.
The other lad was not registered with a Sydney U16 Club in 2012, so would need 4 x 2013 games/washouts/forfeits/byes before the June long weekend to qualify for Central West at State Champs.

I have no comment on the eligibility criteria for NSW JRU Under 17 team, or the AJRU Under 17 National Champs as the internet seems to be silent on this.

Conspiracy Theory 2. Perhaps the attempt to register with Dubbo Roos was an attempt to prevent certain Sydney Districts from claiming “ownership” of the players for 2013 NSW State Champs. A player can not be registered with two clubs simultaneously.

Theory (non Conspiracy) 3. They have not played a 15 aside game for almost 6 months and just wanted
to “blow out the cobwebs” before the Trial games in Term 2, and GPS rep selection/NSW Schools selections. Two participated for their School in the Schoolboy 7’s at Easter at Scots.

If I was the Dubbo Roos Committee, I would be reluctant to register the City based boys unless they committed to be available for as many games as possible for the Club. Do they play Club footy in Country during School holidays? For one game – nah.

As a Zone Selector/Country Selector, if players of this calibre committed to the Country/Zone rep programme, then probably, although in selecting what is effectively a “State of Origin” team loaded with city boarders, you are denying slots and development opportunities in the Country team to kids who toil week in week out for their Country club. If you were determined to win games, rather than develop players, then a Country Selector would be foolish to overlook these players and eligibility criteria would be favourably interpreted to ensure that you could get your hands on them.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

But then I'd need to know which school's the kids go to and what team they play in at school - sounds like stalking

Facebook and Junior IS should be able to get you that information pretty quickly!

The young'uns know much more than we give them credit for.

 

[sarcophilus]

But then I'd need to know which school's the kids go to and what team they play in at school - sounds like stalking

What you do with your spare time is your business, it sound as though I should not help you in this exercise any more than I already have

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Facebook and Junior IS should be able to get you that information pretty quickly!

The young'uns know much more than we give them credit for.

The idea that an adolescent would assist me to find out information like this is novel to say the least