School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[southsider]

Adolescent boys can't keep this stuff secret. If they were approached by a school, they wouldn't be able to resist telling someone. I've never heard of a boy being approached by Joeys, Shore, Riverview, High or Grammar either from boys or parents whereas, like rip I have been told repeatedly of the activities of other schools. They can't all be making it up.

taumoepeau brothers, kurtley Beale and Pete Betham

 

[angrydog]

St Augustine's is NOT a Christian Brothers School, I don't know where you got that information from. They are not part of the Edmund Rice system or any other system, they are a stand alone school run by the Augustinian Order.

There is no mention of any form of scholarship or bursary on their website and in almost 50 years of living on the northern beaches, I've never seen them advertise any form of scholarship or bursary.

I'd be interested to know where your information came from about Edmund Rice Scholarships at Augustines.

I stand corrected and apologise for this. I thought they were a CB school but as you mentioned, a check of their website shows they are clearly not. I am aware of several staff there who have previous links with CB schools where scholarships were common place, despite no mention of them on their website I would still not be suprised if some form of bursary or scholarships were being offered. I dont know how else to explain their somewhat meteoric rise in the rugby there over the past 7-8 years. From relatively unknowns to beating GPS and CAS schools regularly and winning Waratah shields a plenty. I am sorry if this offends but I smell a rat somewhere. Hats off to them for their success, it no doubt has been hard fought and won but to have such success in a short time when previously they were not even on the rugby map is very strange. If there is a plausible reason I would like to be told what it is to satisfy my own curiosity.

 

[topo]

taumoepeau brothers, kurtley Beale and Pete Betham

Well KB (Kurtley Beale) and Pete Betham were there from yr 7 and I think Pauliasi was as well. That's a big gamble.

 

[lincoln]

Kurtley Beale was headhunted from Shalvey (Mt Druitt) due to his gifted abilty to play rugby league in the local Penrith comp not for his academic record. His uncle (guardian, at the time) has told this story numerous times to the Sydney media. Behave and don't tell porkies.

To save someone having to retype the Beale story.

 

[random2]

Well KB (Kurtley Beale) and Pete Betham were there from yr 7 and I think Pauliasi was as well. That's a big gamble.

Giving a kid a scholarship from year 7 is a whole different story to boys coming on scholarships in years 10 and 11. At least youre actually developing your talent for 6 years and giving them the same opportunities as the majority of their cohort.

 

[CTPE]

How many of last years Joeys first XV pack started in year 7?

 

[Quick Hands]

I stand corrected and apologise for this. I thought they were a CB school but as you mentioned, a check of their website shows they are clearly not. I am aware of several staff there who have previous links with CB schools where scholarships were common place, despite no mention of them on their website I would still not be suprised if some form of bursary or scholarships were being offered. I dont know how else to explain their somewhat meteoric rise in the rugby there over the past 7-8 years. From relatively unknowns to beating GPS and CAS schools regularly and winning Waratah shields a plenty. I am sorry if this offends but I smell a rat somewhere. Hats off to them for their success, it no doubt has been hard fought and won but to have such success in a short time when previously they were not even on the rugby map is very strange. If there is a plausible reason I would like to be told what it is to satisfy my own curiosity.

From what I understand about 10-15 years ago the school had about 500 boys and now they have 1,200. This has come after a new headmaster arrived. They also have a top class rugby coach in John Papahatzis coaching there. I believe that over 50% of Manly and Warringah junior rep players now enrol at the school in Year 7 and sometimes Year 5. No idea what the fees are, but people tell me they are quite reasonable.

This area has also changed significantly since I went to a CHS school over 30 years ago. Back then there was a strong rugby programme in all the state high schools, Manly Boys' and Balgowlah Boys' in particular featured in Waratah Shield finals and semis and I think Manly may even have won it a couple of times. Manly is now academically selective and co-ed, so little rugby there Balgowlah now has less than half the students that it used to, the North Shore Zone CHS Wednesday competition folded 10-15 years ago, so basically there's not much rugby going on the state system. Now about 60% of students in this area go to private schools, in my day almost all went to their local state school.

So it doesn't surprise me that a private school in the area, which has a good rugby programme is attracting plenty of enrolments. They seem to be doing the right thing in that they are strong all through the age groups, not just opens. That indicates to me that they have talent and a coaching programme in place. I'm told that they draw almost if not all of their students from the northern beaches, so again that tells me that they are taking advantage of being in an area in which rugby is strong.

 

[random2]

How many of last years Joeys first XV pack started in year 7?

10 out of the 15 i think. I know Carolan came late but had two brothers at the school, Sandell had a brother. Im pretty sure Robertson, O'Donohue and Wilde all came from Joeys familys as well. Robbo and Wilde were in 15Bs when they came anyway.

 

[George Smith]

Not


Not quite sure what my DOB has to do with this?? You still havent answered my questions about who these supposed impoverished Marist students are that get offered up to the gods of St Josephs at the invite of the Brothers there? Was Maguire one of them or was he sent there by his parents? I could give you the names of numerous guys who went to Marist and Eddies and were sent to Joeys for high school or at least yr 11 and 12 by their parents. None of them were invited to Joeys, at least not until their parents had shown the Brothers the color of their money.

Mr Maguire was invited by the SJC Brothers and was on a scholarship. As to what type of Catholicism he followed I don't know (or care). But good on him for accepting the invite as from my observations at the time he was from a very disadvantaged background and a bloody good footballer.

 

[George Smith]

From what I understand about 10-15 years ago the school had about 500 boys and now they have 1,200. This has come after a new headmaster arrived. They also have a top class rugby coach in John Papahatzis coaching there. I believe that over 50% of Manly and Warringah junior rep players now enrol at the school in Year 7 and sometimes Year 5. No idea what the fees are, but people tell me they are quite reasonable.

This area has also changed significantly since I went to a CHS school over 30 years ago. Back then there was a strong rugby programme in all the state high schools, Manly Boys' and Balgowlah Boys' in particular featured in Waratah Shield finals and semis and I think Manly may even have won it a couple of times. Manly is now academically selective and co-ed, so little rugby there Balgowlah now has less than half the students that it used to, the North Shore Zone CHS Wednesday competition folded 10-15 years ago, so basically there's not much rugby going on the state system. Now about 60% of students in this area go to private schools, in my day almost all went to their local state school.

So it doesn't surprise me that a private school in the area, which has a good rugby programme is attracting plenty of enrolments. They seem to be doing the right thing in that they are strong all through the age groups, not just opens. That indicates to me that they have talent and a coaching programme in place. I'm told that they draw almost if not all of their students from the northern beaches, so again that tells me that they are taking advantage of being in an area in which rugby is strong.

Can anyone tell me the substance and background to some local gossip that claims:
a) the school was 'on the ropes' and the Headmaster was given a finite number of years to get it back on a stable footing. In response he determined that "sporting excellence" was a key point of difference the school could be known for and he made sure he executed the plan very well (the basis of any good business plan).
b) a few years (2-3) ago the school (ie. the Headmaster) embarked on a program of accepting boys from south Auckland with the promise of 'turning' them around. These boys were terrific rugby players, had plenty of ink and were tough. In a pre-season trial they belted Joeys resulting in several SJC players being rested the following week.
c) St Augustines were also 'suspended' from the ISA system for a little time around this time as they were violating the ISA Rules by offering scholarships as part of their 'turnaround' program.

.. again I say these things should only be taken as 'gossip' and hearsay until verified, but I am curious as if true the Headmaster did a bloody good job in achieving what he did.

 

[angrydog]

Mr Maguire was invited by the SJC Brothers and was on a scholarship. As to what type of Catholicism he followed I don't know (or care). But good on him for accepting the invite as from my observations at the time he was from a very disadvantaged background and a bloody good footballer.

Where did McGuire attend prior to SJC? In any case this sounds like an isolated case if indeed it is correct. Your original statement was quite broad and implied that all other Marist schools are used by SJC as breeding ground. In my experience this is far from the case and no matter which Marist school you attend you are pretty much required to pay your fees or pack your bags. Most offer scholarships or other burary's for a variety of reasons but to the best of knowledge none offer such financial assistance only because a kid can play a bit of footy.

 

[I like to watch]

Can anyone tell me the substance and background to some local gossip that claims:
a) the school was 'on the ropes' and the Headmaster was given a finite number of years to get it back on a stable footing. In response he determined that "sporting excellence" was a key point of difference the school could be known for and he made sure he executed the plan very well (the basis of any good business plan).

b) a few years (2-3) ago the school (ie. the Headmaster) embarked on a program of accepting boys from south Auckland with the promise of 'turning' them around. These boys were terrific rugby players, had plenty of ink and were tough. In a pre-season trial they belted Joeys resulting in several SJC players being rested the following week.
c) St Augustines were also 'suspended' from the ISA system for a little time around this time as they were violating the ISA Rules by offering scholarships as part of their 'turnaround' program.

.. again I say these things should only be taken as 'gossip' and hearsay until verified, but I am curious as if true the Headmaster did a bloody good job in achieving what he did.

b) There have been 3 of these boys in the past 10 years, the first now teaches there, the second finished in 2008, and was coaching one of their junior sides last year,and lastly one who finished in 2010.
c)Never happened.

No doubt the Rugby program has impressive results from an almost zero base in 10 years.

 

[southsider]

Well KB (Kurtley Beale) and Pete Betham were there from yr 7 and I think Pauliasi was as well. That's a big gamble.

true they were there from yr7 but from whati heard KB (Kurtley Beale) was clearly a star and i went to primary school with pauli and sipa, there was no doubt at that time that they were going to be great athletes, they were bigger than the average yr8 kids and held nearly every athletics record in the region between them...theres always 12year old floating arounf that you can tell will be somthing special so dont think it was too much of a gamble on joeys part

 

[Quick Hands]

Can anyone tell me the substance and background to some local gossip that claims:
a) the school was 'on the ropes' and the Headmaster was given a finite number of years to get it back on a stable footing. In response he determined that "sporting excellence" was a key point of difference the school could be known for and he made sure he executed the plan very well (the basis of any good business plan).
b) a few years (2-3) ago the school (ie. the Headmaster) embarked on a program of accepting boys from south Auckland with the promise of 'turning' them around. These boys were terrific rugby players, had plenty of ink and were tough. In a pre-season trial they belted Joeys resulting in several SJC players being rested the following week.
c) St Augustines were also 'suspended' from the ISA system for a little time around this time as they were violating the ISA Rules by offering scholarships as part of their 'turnaround' program.

.. again I say these things should only be taken as 'gossip' and hearsay until verified, but I am curious as if true the Headmaster did a bloody good job in achieving what he did.

You'd have to ask the headmaster about point (a), I do know that after he took over there has been considerable building of new facilities at the school - mainly academic. The school has 1 indoor basketball court, no pool, no sporting fields, no tennis courts. I suspect they just decided to improve everything and sport was part of it.

I like to watch has answered (b) & (c).

 

[Brian Westlake]

Noted but I'm not altogether convinced as both Riverview and Joeys have far too many boys of rep rugby quality who start at the schools after Year 7 - I think that this previous quote best sums up the situation up:

Starting with one of the lads who was approched by TKS?
Please CTPE, stop defending the indefendable.

 

[Lindommer]

taumoepeau brothers, kurtley Beale and Pete Betham

Having known Pualiasi and Sipper's father for some 40 years I can confirm he was in a position to afford to send his third and fourth sons to Joeys, but not one and two. Sipper started at Endeavour Sports HS and went to Joeys after Pauliasi left; his father acknowledged his sporting ability and felt Sipper would get the best chance to develop it at Joeys. BTW, the Taumoepeau boys' parents paid full freight.

Beale and Betham were very good junior league players, no doubt about that; Betham's skills were noted by the scouts at Souths Juniors and he could've got a good start there. But to infer Joeys "headhunted" them to bolster the First XV ranks suggests there was some sort of divine providence guiding their decision-making for boys entering year 7. Yes, Kurtley's uncle may've wanted him to develop his undoubted sporting potential, and he was certainly aware of the opportunity at Joeys with its indigenous education commitment, but a skinny lad starting in year 7 has a lot of hurdles to clear before he makes the Ones.

 

[Brian Westlake]

A

How many of last years Joeys first XV pack started in year 7?

As per Random 2 #1248. You seem to really have a vendetta here CTPE?
Why?

 

[I like to watch]

There is nothing wrong with Joeys giving a talented but disadvantaged kid an education from yr 7.
If they enrolling 15 yo's after the Long weekend state champs and sending off into the big wide world with no ATAR at the end of their "education" it would be a different story.

 

[I like to watch]

A
As per Random 2 #1248. You seem to really have a vendetta here CTPE?
Why?

It's the Lance Armstrong defence.
If I can claim someone else may be cheating, then my systematic rorting of the rules is acceptable, and is not really an advantage!

 

[Lindommer]

Noted but I'm not altogether convinced as both Riverview and Joeys have far too many boys of rep rugby quality who start at the schools after Year 7.....

CTPE, there's been an attitude among many parents of talented rugby juniors to treat these institutions as "rugby finishing schools". The northern beaches, north shore and the greater north-west of Sydney have traditionally been strong rugby areas (Eastwood have, what, seven feeder village clubs, and Wahroonga Tigers is the biggest junior club in Australia). Parents, mostly fathers, want their little champion to go as far as he can in Dad's favourite sport, and to this end the parents make enquiries at King's, Joeys, Knox, Barker, Scots, Newington, wherever, when young Sam/Mark/Phil makes the district under 14/15 rep side. In my experience the vast majority of late entries in these circumstances pay full freight. There's also another imperative in these late enrolments: a helluva lot of parents can't afford to pay private school fees for six years, hence the couple of boys in Joeys Ones last year who had older brothers precede them. Apart from the affordabilty issue there are legions of mothers out there who are reluctant to send little Sam/Mark/Phil off to boarding school aged 12.

A specific example: when my young fella started at one of these institutions two blokes from my year also had their sons commence at the same time, but in year 11. One couldn't afford six years and the other's mother wanted him at home until he was 16; neither of these boys made the First XV. There are many reasons why good rugby players appear in years 10 and 11 apart from blatant poaching.