School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Quick Hands]

It's a funny old world where those following the rules/code of conduct and acting ethically have to justify doing so and those flouting the rules/code of conduct for their own advantage see nothing wrong with doing so.

 

[Quick Hands]

As for Joeys I recall that Matt Sandell, Nick Penisi, Jono Hardy and one other whose name eludes me all arrived at Joeys in year 10 after having been members of the NSW U15 Country team the previous year.

From what I recall the argument put forward for their mass arrival was that some of them had previous connections with the school through siblings or fathers etc. Not sure if this was the case but Sandell apparently had an older brother at the school. Seems that the same reasonable proposition is not afforded to the "three major poachers"

I think that many have given the schools your mention the benefit of the doubt, I know that I did as did others. The weight of evidence and common sense now dictate that their positions are untenable. Come to the Northern Beaches and just about everyone involved in a top level rugby team can tell of an approach to someone they know from these schools. (The 3 major poachers)

 

[CTPE]

I think that many have given the schools your mention the benefit of the doubt, I know that I did as did others. The weight of evidence and common sense now dictate that their positions are untenable. Come to the Northern Beaches and just about everyone involved in a top level rugby team can tell of an approach to someone they know from these schools. (The 3 major poachers)

The school I mentioned in my quoted post was Joeys and in my post at #1198 was Riverview.

 

[random2]

As for Joeys I recall that Matt Sandell, Nick Penisi, Jono Hardy and one other whose name eludes me all arrived at Joeys in year 10 after having been members of the NSW U15 Country team the previous year.

From what I recall the argument put forward for their mass arrival was that some of them had previous connections with the school through siblings or fathers etc. Not sure if this was the case but Sandell apparently had an older brother at the school. Seems that the same reasonable proposition is not afforded to the "three major poachers"

Sandell did have a brother at Joeys at the time, Hardys dad is an old boy i believe and Penisi won a math scholarship and surprisingly is actually very good at math.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

As for Joeys I recall that Matt Sandell, Nick Penisi, Jono Hardy and one other whose name eludes me all arrived at Joeys in year 10 after having been members of the NSW U15 Country team the previous year.

From what I recall the argument put forward for their mass arrival was that some of them had previous connections with the school through siblings or fathers etc. Not sure if this was the case but Sandell apparently had an older brother at the school. Seems that the same reasonable proposition is not afforded to the "three major poachers"

Let the alleged poachers publicly denounce poaching and explain why they are philosophically opposed to assembling rugby, athletics or swimming teams through recruitment.
Then we'll know they're serious.
The silence is deafening.
SIC has changed the perception of their position on this thread by doing so.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Brian Westlake]

As for Joeys I recall that Matt Sandell, Nick Penisi, Jono Hardy and one other whose name eludes me all arrived at Joeys in year 10 after having been members of the NSW U15 Country team the previous year.

From what I recall the argument put forward for their mass arrival was that some of them had previous connections with the school through siblings or fathers etc. Not sure if this was the case but Sandell apparently had an older brother at the school. Seems that the same reasonable proposition is not afforded to the "three major poachers"

And is this why one of the last years SJC 1st XV was offered a position of scholarship at TKS?

Ask Jacks dad he knows him too.

 

[Quick Hands]

The school I mentioned in my quoted post was Joeys and in my post at #1198 was Riverview.

You're right, my post is poorly constructed and although it made sense when I wrote it, I can see now that it's meaning is unclear.

For the record, I am convinced that none of SGS, SHS, Shore, SIC or SJC use scholarships or bursaries to assemble their rugby teams. That doesn't mean that the odd scholarship holder is not also good at rugby or sport or that boys don't change schools at various times for perfectly innocent reasons.

I am aware that NC and TSC are active on the northern beaches and probably other areas in recruiting rugby players at Year 9/10 level. TKS don't seem particularly active on the beaches, but there is evidence, such as that from Angry Dog a few pages back and Brian Westlake above that they are using a similar strategy.

 

[rugboy]

You're right, my post is poorly constructed and although it made sense when I wrote it, I can see now that it's meaning is unclear.

For the record, I am convinced that none of SGS, SHS, Shore, SIC or SJC use scholarships or bursaries to assemble their rugby teams. That doesn't mean that the odd scholarship holder is not also good at rugby or sport or that boys don't change schools at various times for perfectly innocent reasons.

I am aware that NC and TSC are active on the northern beaches and probably other areas in recruiting rugby players at Year 9/10 level. TKS don't seem particularly active on the beaches, but there is evidence, such as that from Angry Dog a few pages back and Brian Westlake above that they are using a similar strategy.

TKS also have the occasional interest in the Northern Beaches Will Davies and Boyd Killingworth both attended Mater Maria college at Warriewood

 

[en_force_er]

No-one misses training at Joeys no matter what sport you play and the same at most (if not all Sydney GPS schools). At Joeys 90% board and even at other schools rolls are taken and missing training is akin to wagging class because it's part of the school curriculum.

That's the policy but I promise you it isn't the case.

The schools all have compulsory sport involving compulsory training but I the boys who don't have an interest work out ways to slip through the cracks. You can't count on the Biology teacher who begrudgingly coaches the Soccer 5ths to take attendance every training, nor can you count on him dobbing on kids in off his own fruition.

The fact is it's a big system and not everyone will be on the same page.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

And is this why one of the last years SJC 1st XV was offered a position of scholarship at TKS?

Ask Jacks dad he knows him too.

I assume he turned it down?
Accepting, as I do, the truth of this statement it shows the issue in a most distasteful light: it assumes that a kid who has friends at one school can be bought by waiving the fees - and given the level of fees that would be a very tempting offer.
It suggests that TKS think that everything, including friendships and loyalty, can be acquired and its just a question of price.
Yuck.

 

[Quick Hands]

That's the policy but I promise you it isn't the case.

The schools all have compulsory sport involving compulsory training but I the boys who don't have an interest work out ways to slip through the cracks. You can't count on the Biology teacher who begrudgingly coaches the Soccer 5ths to take attendance every training, nor can you count on him dobbing on kids in off his own fruition.

The fact is it's a big system and not everyone will be on the same page.

Well I was involved in a GPS school in which each team had a coach and there was also another teacher (usually a non-sports type) who managed 2 teams. Their role was to come to every training session and match and to take a roll of who was there, keep score and record injuries etc. Any boy missing training - even in the 13Fs - was reported back to the MIC/Sportsmaster for follow up - parental note required. Continued absences resulted in a Saturday detention from 9am-12 noon in full school uniform.

 

[en_force_er]

Well I was involved in a GPS school in which each team had a coach and there was also another teacher (usually a non-sports type) who managed 2 teams. Their role was to come to every training session and match and to take a roll of who was there, keep score and record injuries etc. Any boy missing training - even in the 13Fs - was reported back to the MIC/Sportsmaster for follow up - parental note required. Continued absences resulted in a Saturday detention from 9am-12 noon in full school uniform.

Unless you were at the bottom of the coaching and administration pyramid trust me, there are tricks to getting out of sport. Usually kids are good in year 9 or under but get crafty in years 10-12.

Tricks include:

• Never rocking up to training from day 1, sometimes this means that you simply don't end up on a team list and nobody notices.
• Working out which TICs and teachers don't care as much, some teachers who manage the 16Ds will feel guilty about giving a kid a det if the know they just hate sport or they just can't be bothered because they're not a sporty type.
• Having parents who will write anything on a note when it comes to sport, many parents see sport as a needless addition to privet schools.

This isn't to say all kids get away with it but many do, or at least skip sport for a whole year and only get 1 measly detention.

This isn't a majority but I promise you plenty of boys find ways to skip sport. Ask a group of kids at a school with compulsory sport and they will tell you I'm right.

 

[Quick Hands]

Unless you were at the bottom of the coaching and administration pyramid trust me, there are tricks to getting out of sport. Usually kids are good in year 9 or under but get crafty in years 10-12.

Tricks include:

• Never rocking up to training from day 1, sometimes this means that you simply don't end up on a team list and nobody notices.
• Working out which TICs and teachers don't care as much, some teachers who manage the 16Ds will feel guilty about giving a kid a det if the know they just hate sport or they just can't be bothered because they're not a sporty type.
• Having parents who will write anything on a note when it comes to sport, many parents see sport as a needless addition to privet schools.

This isn't to say all kids get away with it but many do, or at least skip sport for a whole year and only get 1 measly detention.

This isn't a majority but I promise you plenty of boys find ways to skip sport. Ask a group of kids at a school with compulsory sport and they will tell you I'm right.

I agree 100% with you that most students at independent schools play sport at school because they have to. As you suggest, I'm talking about the boys in Cs and below.

Which goes to dispell the notion pedalled by some that having an all conquering 1st XV will somehow inspire the whole school to watch them on Saturday afternoons and thus relive some mythical rugby culture from the deep dark past. If that time ever existed, I don't believe that it will occur again. At 1st XV matches, boarders all attend as do a smattering of current staff and students and of course family of the players - but most staff, students and parents don't particularly take note of sports in which they have no direct involvement.

The people who do attend in numbers are old boys, some, but by no means all, of whom now seem to want to relive a mythical past by watching the 1st XV win.

Apparently this rugby culture and engendering of school spirit is used by some to justify recruiting all-star teams.

 

[Braveheart81]

I went to a CAS school which I imagine was a little more relaxed than a GPS school when it came to attendance at Saturday sport and midweek training.

The classic way to get out of sport for those who wanted to was to tell the rugby coach that you'd changed to soccer and the soccer coach that you'd changed to winter swimming or something.

As long as no one was expecting you, nobody missed you.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Continued absences resulted in a Saturday detention from 9am-12 noon in full school uniform.

I think that means i know where you went to school.

 

[Brian Westlake]

I assume he turned it down?
Accepting, as I do, the truth of this statement it shows the issue in a most distasteful light: it assumes that a kid who has friends at one school can be bought by waiving the fees - and given the level of fees that would be a very tempting offer.
It suggests that TKS think that everything, including friendships and loyalty, can be acquired and its just a question of price.
Yuck.

You are correct.

 

[gpsoldboy]

For the record, I am convinced that none of SGS, SHS, Shore, SIC or SJC use scholarships or bursaries to assemble their rugby teams. That doesn't mean that the odd scholarship holder is not also good at rugby or sport or that boys don't change schools at various times for perfectly innocent reasons.

I think that your proposition only applies in strict terms to Grammar, High and probably Shore. I believe that all other GPS schools, including Riverview and Joeys, recruit rugby players but some just do it more subtly and on a lesser scale than others. However, if a boy got a "maths" scholarship and arrived at Joeys in year 10 but also happened to be a representative rugby player, as stated in a previous post, then great! But that explanation and latitude of understanding should equally apply to similarly proficient rugby playing boys at other GPS schools who arrive at their destination under similar circumstances. Also, if it is good enough for a great young rugby player to arrive at Joeys, Riverview or even Shore in years 9, 10 or 11 and the explanation is that he had an older brother at the school, or his father or grandfather went there then that yet again should be an equally acceptable explanation at other GPS schools. Regretably the prophetic statement in John 8:7 has been culpably ignored in more recent posts.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Regretably the prophetic statement in John 8:7 has been culpably ignored in more recent posts.

UNless the posters are in charge of offering scholarships this is hyperbole (or hyper-bowl as our PM insists from her high dungeon).

 

[Quick Hands]

I think that your proposition only applies in strict terms to Grammar, High and probably Shore. I believe that all other GPS schools, including Riverview and Joeys, recruit rugby players but some just do it more subtly and on a lesser scale than others. However, if a boy got a "maths" scholarship and arrived at Joeys in year 10 but also happened to be a representative rugby player, as stated in a previous post, then great! But that explanation and latitude of understanding should equally apply to similarly proficient rugby playing boys at other GPS schools who arrive at their destination under similar circumstances. Also, if it is good enough for a great young rugby player to arrive at Joeys, Riverview or even Shore in years 9, 10 or 11 and the explanation is that he had an older brother at the school, or his father or grandfather went there then that yet again should be an equally acceptable explanation at other GPS schools. Regretably the prophetic statement in John 8:7 has been culpably ignored in more recent posts.

The recruiting/assembling of teams that are being discussed involve schools or their agents systematically approaching boys on the basis of their rugby ability, offering positions at the school and including some sort of scholarship or bursary as fee relief. I don't believe that either Joeys or Riverview are engaged in that practice, whereas 3 schools most certainly are.

In terms of the older brother/father/grandfather went to the school, that would seem a reasonable explanation no matter what school was involved and I don't think that reasonable posters would criticise that. I've said many times that boys change schools for a variety of reasons and it would be reasonable to expect all schools would have a few players in their team who started after Year 7. It does stretch credibility when that number is over 10 new arrivals out of 15.

 

[gpsoldboy]

The recruiting/assembling of teams that are being discussed involve schools or their agents systematically approaching boys on the basis of their rugby ability, offering positions at the school and including some sort of scholarship or bursary as fee relief. I don't believe that either Joeys or Riverview are engaged in that practice, whereas 3 schools most certainly are.

In terms of the older brother/father/grandfather went to the school, that would seem a reasonable explanation no matter what school was involved and I don't think that reasonable posters would criticise that. I've said many times that boys change schools for a variety of reasons and it would be reasonable to expect all schools would have a few players in their team who started after Year 7. It does stretch credibility when that number is over 10 new arrivals out of 15.

Are you therefore saying that there are 3 schools that satisfy the "over 10 new arrivals out of 15 post Year 7" test?