School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Inside Shoulder]

The old adage that success breeds success is really important in a school boy environment. The excitement that having strong athletes (and a chance of winning) is so vital to build school spirit. I suspect that NC and TSC, which have done pretty poorly until the last few years and change of leadership, are attracting boys with talent in one or more given areas to their school in order to bulk up the squads while their new rugby etc programs work their magic on the younger age groups.
As has been pointed out above, NC and particularly TSC have some very very good talent coming through in their 13,14 and 15's so the new programs (implemented after the change in leadership) are showing results. Questionable whether they would need to find players from outside as the years progress, but time will tell. From what I understand, the numbers at both schools are very strong and growing, so there will also be more talent to develop and choose from as time goes on.

They just got in earlier with the recruiting.

 

[Freddo Frog]

Not very cynical are you IS?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Not very cynical are you IS?

I am - but I have personal knowledge of the situation in this case.

 

[Freddo Frog]

Ahhh interesting. Will you share which school /age groups?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Ahhh interesting. Will you share which school /age groups?

New in 14/15s
Knox - same
Kings - ditto



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[Brian Westlake]

Not sure the Jo boys fit into this description:
The point is a a good one, however.

Nor Iggys....

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Nor Iggys..

I left hem out because they won so few rugby premierships historically


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[Quick Hands]

To place matters in context, I include the following excerpts from the AAGPS code of practice: (Agreed to by all 8 schools)

The trend towards professionalism in school sport is to be viewed with caution. Where such an approach involves sound coaching techniques and is aimed at producing a satisfying and improved level of performance, this approach can be beneficial. However, care should be taken to exclude from our schools practices which place the pursuit of victory above those aspects of sport concerned with enjoyment, balanced development and good sportsmanship.

In other words, the spirit of the amateur - in its best sense - should remain the ideal which guides these aspects of school sports.

We believe that all GPS sport is valuable. It exists for the benefit of the boys and must assume its proper place alongside academic, spiritual, cultural and social development

In the light of these principles, the GPS Headmasters affirm the following code of practice:

No inducements such as sporting scholarships, whether direct, disguised, or at arm's length, shall be offered by any member school. Financial assistance to talented sportsmen shall not form part of the enrolment strategy of any member school.

(my bold)
Source AAGPS website

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Doesn't say anything about triangle scholarships though!


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[Nusadan]

Still beating the drum, eh, IS? (pun half intended)

 

[Quick Hands]

Doesn't say anything about triangle scholarships though!


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I think that would fall under 'disguised'.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Still beating the drum, eh, IS? (pun half intended)

Somewhat - I think some good has come of it and some more will come.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Somewhat - I think some good has come of it and some more will come.

I agree with you, but what will happen IS?
Will the 3 major poachers just go more clandestine in their actions?
If a 3rd party actively pays a pupils fees, are the other schools to go through their banking records to see who wrote the cheque?
There are so many "ways around" this, it now makes me wonder how many loopholes for want of a better word have been used.
There are young men attending one school who, if asked, will tell you who pays their fees. Not hearsay or innuendo, but that actual boy(s). If it were mine or my associations money going into this young person, first off l would say to them in no uncertain terms, to shut the hell up!

Back to the original though, What will happen? Denial?, a slap on the wrist? Expulsion from a comp that it already on a very slippery path to self destruction?
Sorry, but I can only see more and more teams just falling away

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Brian Westlake if i knew what will happen I wouldnt have to work for a living.
There are a number of issues that turn on or impact this one.

1. Grammar has suddenly woken up to the fact that rugby has been ignored and they are addressing it: the impetus for that change of heart was, partly, the floggings by the 3 major poachers over the last 2 years and the retirement of the MIC - who seems now to have been merely the M since he was not IC of anything.
2. Shore has taken a public stand on the issue: They are the next domino. Realistically they will not remain highly competitive based on their demographic alone for long.
3. SJC remain well coached throughout the ages (the secret to their historic success) but their recent performances are likely showing the impact of the recruitment going on in other schools and in which they do not seem to be engaged.
4. SIC claim innocence and have gone public denouncing the practice and their results suggest that if they are recruiting specifically for rugby they're infrastructure must not be up to it or they're not recruiting well. I think they are not recruiting.
5. So there are 5 schools on the right side of this ledger - none of whom seem inclined to alter their philosophy. Grammar, maybe SBHS, will (in time) become much closer to the other 3 or 4 in terms of attitude (and perhaps results) - a reality shown by the Shore and SIC websites. Having now received the fee schedule for 2013 many parents will be wondering just how important is school rugby @ $30,000 per annum (for 10 games - $3,000 per game: not a convincing PR exercise or justification for the ingestion of school spirit)! The demographic is changing for all schools - I have been told, for instance, that SJC has more soccer teams than rugby teams in some age groups.
6. In time the 3 who are on the wrong side will only be able to get 2 competitive games: thats not a competition. it will be harder to justify even to their rusted on fans.
7. Australian rugby cannot continue to depend on 3 NSW schools (+ whatever Qld supply: I'm not bagging them or commenting because i dont know how it works there; Also I dont know what is the position in CAS schools in NSW) to give kids the grounding in rugby - this will become more so as the gap between those 3 and the other GPS schools widens.
8. It follows that in the medium term 2 drivers will be impacting upon the ARU's traditional source of cannon fodder to the detriment of the quality of the players.
9. The 5 GPS schools will lose interest in playing the other 3 on the present basis. The other 3 either stop recruiting forcing the ARU to actually look at the game or they will have to play schools outside the GPS to get good competitive games. Either result will benefit Oz rugby, IMO.

My view is that Shore and SIC publicly denouncing the recruitment situation has brought this to a head.

 

[en_force_er]

The demographic is changing for all schools - I have been told, for instance, that SJC has more soccer teams than rugby teams in some age groups.

Let's not get too nervous about this. In rugby you run into blokes, a lot. In soccer, you don't.

If sport was not a concern to me and I wanted to pull a shifty (skip trainings and not really give a fuck), I'd play soccer. There are plenty of kids who use this are their sport selection system.

Plus, there's less players in a soccer team.

 

[Quick Hands]

Brian Westlake if i knew what will happen I wouldnt have to work for a living.
There are a number of issues that turn on or impact this one.

1. Grammar has suddenly woken up to the fact that rugby has been ignored and they are addressing it: the impetus for that change of heart was, partly, the floggings by the 3 major poachers over the last 2 years and the retirement of the MIC - who seems now to have been merely the M since he was not IC of anything.
2. Shore has taken a public stand on the issue: They are the next domino. Realistically they will not remain highly competitive based on their demographic alone for long.
3. SJC remain well coached throughout the ages (the secret to their historic success) but their recent performances are likely showing the impact of the recruitment going on in other schools and in which they do not seem to be engaged.
4. SIC claim innocence and have gone public denouncing the practice and their results suggest that if they are recruiting specifically for rugby they're infrastructure must not be up to it or they're not recruiting well. I think they are not recruiting.
5. So there are 5 schools on the right side of this ledger - none of whom seem inclined to alter their philosophy. Grammar, maybe SBHS, will (in time) become much closer to the other 3 or 4 in terms of attitude (and perhaps results) - a reality shown by the Shore and SIC websites. Having now received the fee schedule for 2013 many parents will be wondering just how important is school rugby @ $30,000 per annum (for 10 games - $3,000 per game: not a convincing PR exercise or justification for the ingestion of school spirit)! The demographic is changing for all schools - I have been told, for instance, that SJC has more soccer teams than rugby teams in some age groups.
6. In time the 3 who are on the wrong side will only be able to get 2 competitive games: thats not a competition. it will be harder to justify even to their rusted on fans.
7. Australian rugby cannot continue to depend on 3 NSW schools (+ whatever Qld supply: I'm not bagging them or commenting because i dont know how it works there; Also I dont know what is the position in CAS schools in NSW) to give kids the grounding in rugby - this will become more so as the gap between those 3 and the other GPS schools widens.
8. It follows that in the medium term 2 drivers will be impacting upon the ARU's traditional source of cannon fodder to the detriment of the quality of the players.
9. The 5 GPS schools will lose interest in playing the other 3 on the present basis. The other 3 either stop recruiting forcing the ARU to actually look at the game or they will have to play schools outside the GPS to get good competitive games. Either result will benefit Oz rugby, IMO.

My view is that Shore and SIC publicly denouncing the recruitment situation has brought this to a head.

Great post.

 

[Quick Hands]

Let's not get too nervous about this. In rugby you run into blokes, a lot. In soccer, you don't.

If sport was not a concern to me and I wanted to pull a shifty (skip trainings and not really give a fuck), I'd play soccer. There are plenty of kids who use this are their sport selection system.

Plus, there's less players in a soccer team.

No-one misses training at Joeys no matter what sport you play and the same at most (if not all Sydney GPS schools). At Joeys 90% board and even at other schools rolls are taken and missing training is akin to wagging class because it's part of the school curriculum.

 

[CTPE]

An interesting article that all should read -
"At Riverview, people are valued. They are not commodities to be traded. Here, loyalties grow year by year. We call it home-grown talent. Flashing a fistful of dollars to change your colours and your commitment is not our way. Allegiances are not for sale. We make that point very clearly now in our printed Rugby and Football programmes each week both here and at St Aloysius’ College. At Aloys’ they put the year of a boy’s enrolment at the College next to his name to show they do not deal in recent imports. We do the same here, indicating the teams a boy has worked his way through over the years in reaching the Firsts."

Looking at last week's Riverview Firsts team from their programme I note the following: (with boys names omitted):

No 3 - played in the 2nd XV last year but no rugby prior at View
No 4 - did not play rugby at View prior to this year
No 9- - played in the 16As last year but no rugby prior at View
No 10 - played in the 1st XV last year but no rugby prior at View
No 13 - played in the 2nd XV last year and the U15A the year before but no rugby prior at View.

That's 5 out of 15 or 1/3 of the First XV. I don't suggest that these players are on scholarships of any type - but they are all either recent arrivals at Riverview or perhaps they were there but playing soccer prior to their rugby conversion?

An old post but .......

 

[random2]

Brian Westlake if i knew what will happen I wouldnt have to work for a living.
There are a number of issues that turn on or impact this one.

1. Grammar has suddenly woken up to the fact that rugby has been ignored and they are addressing it: the impetus for that change of heart was, partly, the floggings by the 3 major poachers over the last 2 years and the retirement of the MIC - who seems now to have been merely the M since he was not IC of anything.
2. Shore has taken a public stand on the issue: They are the next domino. Realistically they will not remain highly competitive based on their demographic alone for long.
3. SJC remain well coached throughout the ages (the secret to their historic success) but their recent performances are likely showing the impact of the recruitment going on in other schools and in which they do not seem to be engaged.
4. SIC claim innocence and have gone public denouncing the practice and their results suggest that if they are recruiting specifically for rugby they're infrastructure must not be up to it or they're not recruiting well. I think they are not recruiting.
5. So there are 5 schools on the right side of this ledger - none of whom seem inclined to alter their philosophy. Grammar, maybe SBHS, will (in time) become much closer to the other 3 or 4 in terms of attitude (and perhaps results) - a reality shown by the Shore and SIC websites. Having now received the fee schedule for 2013 many parents will be wondering just how important is school rugby @ $30,000 per annum (for 10 games - $3,000 per game: not a convincing PR exercise or justification for the ingestion of school spirit)! The demographic is changing for all schools - I have been told, for instance, that SJC has more soccer teams than rugby teams in some age groups.
6. In time the 3 who are on the wrong side will only be able to get 2 competitive games: thats not a competition. it will be harder to justify even to their rusted on fans.
7. Australian rugby cannot continue to depend on 3 NSW schools (+ whatever Qld supply: I'm not bagging them or commenting because i dont know how it works there; Also I dont know what is the position in CAS schools in NSW) to give kids the grounding in rugby - this will become more so as the gap between those 3 and the other GPS schools widens.
8. It follows that in the medium term 2 drivers will be impacting upon the ARU's traditional source of cannon fodder to the detriment of the quality of the players.
9. The 5 GPS schools will lose interest in playing the other 3 on the present basis. The other 3 either stop recruiting forcing the ARU to actually look at the game or they will have to play schools outside the GPS to get good competitive games. Either result will benefit Oz rugby, IMO.

My view is that Shore and SIC publicly denouncing the recruitment situation has brought this to a head.

Top post IS. The belief that there is an age group at Joeys with more football teams than rugby teams is a myth. There are an about 4 football teams in each age group and 7-8 rugby teams, with 5 opens football teams and 13 rugby.

I dont think Joeys boys will ever get sick of playing rugby, even if they are forced to play against a competition of imported talent. If that occured everyone would still be interested, because thats the culture at Joeys and you cant import culture. In my opinion its not much of a problem at the moment, and in 2014 when Joeys, View and Shore finish above the imported talent from Scots and Kings everyone will realise that its still possible to have a team of natural talent that started in year 7 and still take out the comp.

 

[CTPE]

As for Joeys I recall that Matt Sandell, Nick Penisi, Jono Hardy and one other whose name eludes me all arrived at Joeys in year 10 after having been members of the NSW U15 Country team the previous year.

From what I recall the argument put forward for their mass arrival was that some of them had previous connections with the school through siblings or fathers etc. Not sure if this was the case but Sandell apparently had an older brother at the school. Seems that the same reasonable proposition is not afforded to the "three major poachers"