School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Inside Shoulder]

Posters here seem to have verified my statements with respect to Shore and Joeys.

Grammar's and High's results seem to speak for themselves.

View. Not sure what to read into the Rectors declaration from View via the newsletter. Seems bursaries may be OK provided you import early and the imports are from economically disadvantaged backgrounds. That is one way of interpreting the statement.

New, Kings and Scots. Posters seem to have adopted the Lance Armstrong defence. Although it seems to have been confirmed that at least one full fare student at Kings may have become some sort of matyr to the Club Rugby cause.

This all suggests that the original post wasn't too far off the money.

I, as you too seem to be, am bemused by the Rectors pronouncements.
This is part of the reason I've gone a bit cold on whingeing about scholarships: my indigenous bursary is your triangle scholarship, and an HSC result procured by offering 20 academic scholarships per annum is hardly a random manifestation of the wonders of a liberal education, sans rugby.
Unless one knows all the ins and outs as to how any child found there way to any school on a partly paid or free ride how can one really question the legitimacy of the schools beneficence. and while a school might seem to favour kids who have rugby ability those kids hopefully get something from it, though I know of one case where sadly the opportunity apeears to have been utterly wasted: but then my parents paid full freight for me and justifiably thought I'd squandered my opportunities, so that's not confined to those on a free ride.
It is a form of charity and I guess the schools have the right to decide where the charity will be sent.




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[providence]

I, as you too seem to be, am bemused by the Rectors pronouncements.
This is part of the reason I've gone a bit cold on whingeing about scholarships: my indigenous bursary is your triangle scholarship, and an HSC result procured by offering 20 academic scholarships per annum is hardly a random manifestation of the wonders of a liberal education, sans rugby.
Unless one knows all the ins and outs as to how any child found there way to any school on a partly paid or free ride how can one really question the legitimacy of the schools beneficence. and while a school might seem to favour kids who have rugby ability those kids hopefully get something from it, though I know of one case where sadly the opportunity apeears to have been utterly wasted: but then my parents paid full freight for me and justifiably thought I'd squandered my opportunities, so that's not confined to those on a free ride.
It is a form of charity and I guess the schools have the right to decide where the charity will be sent.




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Great summary Inside. I think you are bang on.

The rector, when musing, may perhaps have been reflecting on the lack of an 'all round education' previously that several Riverview boys had received over the years....and hence the rather cramp confines several old boys now find themselves both locally and overseas.

 

[G-78-XV-V]

The rector, when musing, may perhaps have been reflecting on the lack of an 'all round education' previously that several Riverview boys had received over the years..and hence the rather cramp confines several old boys now find themselves both locally and overseas.

Best comment of the year!!!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Great summary Inside. I think you are bang on.

The rector, when musing, may perhaps have been reflecting on the lack of an 'all round education' previously that several Riverview boys had received over the years..and hence the rather cramp confines several old boys now find themselves both locally and overseas.

let he without sin cast the first stone: there's an AAGPS wing at Malabar.


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[It is what it is]

let he without sin cast the first stone: there's an AAGPS wing at Malabar.


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It's clear you really are enjoying this thread IS.
Your dedication to this thread rivals WJ's commitment to anything south of the Tweed and north of the Murray.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I cannot follow this.
The point I was making was that there are any number of old boys locked up so that no one "system" of education could be blamed. It had nothing to do with race as far as I was concerned.

 

[angrydog]

Sorry guys I have not followed this post regularly, but, could some one please clarify for me (with certainty) if Joeys offer any type of scholarships other than indigenous or academic? i.e do they offer rugby specific scholarships?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Sorry guys I have not followed this post regularly, but, could some one please clarify for me (with certainty) if Joeys offer any type of scholarships other than indigenous or academic? i.e do they offer rugby specific scholarships?

Just when this thread was going quiet you ask THAT question

 

[angrydog]

Just when this thread was going quiet you ask THAT question

I take it from this that the Jury is still well and truly out on this topic

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The thread could be best described as follows:

AAGPS rules preclude athletic sponsorships.

There are plenty of accusations of scholarships.

There are few confirmations.

Accusers seldom provide evidence when challenged.

 

[random2]

Sorry guys I have not followed this post regularly, but, could some one please clarify for me (with certainty) if Joeys offer any type of scholarships other than indigenous or academic? i.e do they offer rugby specific scholarships?

Only type of scholarships are indigenous, academic and music. If people believe boys on these scholarships dont deserve them and are only on them to play rugby then thats their opinion.

 

[I like to watch]

The thread could be best described as follows:

AAGPS rules preclude athletic sponsorships.

There are plenty of accusations of scholarships.

There are few confirmations.

Accusers seldom provide evidence when challenged.

Then there are the deniers, who deny point blank anyone from their School is a recipient.
The obfuscators, who want to shift the focus on how it's really the other Schools that are cheats.
For the record, Kings,Scots and New have provided free tuition to kids on the basis of their Rugby ability according to parents of some of these children.
But of course the obfuscators would say, they are lying to boost their self esteem, and that the parents are actually paying full fees.(despite the kids moving in peculiar years, and the fact their siblings continue their education in the local private school)

HJ, given that some of your posts state it is wrong to name any recipients, what evidence would satisfy you?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Not averse to naming names. I do find it a bit creepy when the debate starts almost invading family privacy as some of the recent discussion has almost done in relation to a non-scholarship lad who has been subject of some debate in the GAPS thread.

If names are going to be named, just be sure of the facts, and not present idle speculation and sideline gossip as fact.

Just because a rep player turns up in year 10/11 at a GPS school does not mean thay are on a scholarship. I personally know of a country lad who was at the Knox U16 tournament who will be at a City GPS school next year. The reason is because Dad was an old boy, and his GrandParents will be providing the "scholarship" for the lad, not the School, not the Old Boys, and not some other 3rd party. It will not surprise me to see his name mentioned in these forums next year as an "Import".

I have already made the observation that New, Scots and Kings provide fee relief/Bursaries/Scholarships for talented athletes and orchestral percussionists. This is based on personal confirmation from parents of those kids in those situations. This view is reinforced from these threads.

Oh and by the way, I agree with the classification and definition of the Deniers and Obfuscators. Just left them out previously for simplicity and bnrevity purposes.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

HJ - I agree with your view about invading families' privacy. This means that I have not posted information that I too have from parents. I dont plan to either. So its a bit cute to criticise people for not backing assertions up with evidence and then criticising the idea of exposing a family's financial and other situations.
Having said that I am pretty sure that those who believe wont be persuaded and those who dont wont be persuaded.

 

[angrydog]

Is there any reason why the alleged schools who offer 'scholarships' just dont agree to be open about its practice and then put an end to the sspeculation? Surely it's not just the supposed rules of the AAGPS which are silcencing them is it?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

This thread exists as a safety valve to allow ranting about Scholarships etc to be corralled in one place and to avoid the various Schollboy threads from getting bogged down in never ending flame wars. This is a polarising topic and as Inside Shoulder has stated above people have fixed views on the topic and are highly unlikely to change those views.

With respect to naming and shaming, I think the intent of the thread is to discuss the hypocracy of the Schools Associations whose charters prevent athletic scholarshipping, inducements, bursaries, fee relief etc rather than naming and shaming individuals who may or may not be an import, ring in, or on a scholarship.

There is no law, bylaw, convention or guideline against a parent/family accepting a subsidised place at a school if it is offered.

With the price of School fees approaching that of a brand new small car, it is also not unrealistic that some families may actively "market" a talented athlete around schools, in the same manner that they may also apply for a scholarship for a genuinely talented musician or mathlete or otherwise academically enhanced student at a variety of schools.

There is a bylaw (as such) in the AAGPS rules stating that there should be no inducements on the basis of athletic abilities (or words to the same general effect - The actual words have been posted many times and are freely available on the AAGPS website). This bylaw is in conflict apparently with Trade Practices Legislation in some way (according to a recent newsletter from the Rector of View).

I really don't see much point in naming and shaming families/boys on this thread, or indulging in a feeding frenzy such as recently seen over a TKS boy, who ironically is apparently Full Fee paying. The usual signs of "importing"/"scholarshipping" such as talented rugby player moving schools from one perceived as having a weak rugby programme to one with a better reputation were not accompanied with fee relief for the student. Whatever reason the family chose to sent the boy to TKS is for them to disclose. When we start to speculate about those reasons, then it gets into rather murky territory that I am not too sure that G&GR should be discussing. These are kids after all.

In short, I think best to try to keep the criticism directed to the Schools rather than the boys or their families.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Is there any reason why the alleged schools who offer 'scholarships' just dont agree to be open about its practice and then put an end to the sspeculation? Surely it's not just the supposed rules of the AAGPS which are silcencing them is it?

It could be speculated that tacit aceptance of "under the table" scholarshipping by some is the best way of preventing a total scholarship "arms race" that may result from an open and acknowledged/endorsed approach. The latter scenario may not be in the best interests of the respective Associations.

 

[en_force_er]

Is there any reason why the alleged schools who offer 'scholarships' just dont agree to be open about its practice and then put an end to the sspeculation? Surely it's not just the supposed rules of the AAGPS which are silcencing them is it?

In what forum? You want them to issue a press release saying "we do scholarships and that's just fine"?

 

[I like to watch]

School acknowledge and celebrate Scholarship holders for musical & academic excellence, they should also do it with their athletic scholarships.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Fair point, but there is no AAGPS Orchestral Competition with rules which specifically exclude offering inducements for talented musical students.

Schools acknowledge and celebrate athletic programme successes via promoting GPS premiership flags. The missing link is the open acknowledgement that some students in the athletic programme may have been induced to attend the school.

Do we need to have the Royal Family to acknowledge that there has been copulation between a royal couple when they announce the birth of another little prince or princess? No mention either of the blood and guts side of the actual birth - what was done with the placenta etc - too much information. Those extra special pieces of information remains known only to a select few, and rightly so.