School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Hugh Jarse]

With approx 1500 students paying approx $28k total revenue from fees is approx $42m.

Missing out on 12 (approx) lots of fees due to scholarship/bursary/fee relief = approx $350k

or approx 0.8% of revenue.

If this is written of as "advertising" the benefits of a Kings Education, then that doesn't seem to be such a large figure.

Given results from the TKS Rugby programme this year, it could be considered that they may not have spent their "advertising" money in this particular campaign particularly wisely. That is their business decision to make. There is no law against running advertising campaigns poorly.

Other posters have considered this as charity money. Again the decision to forgo revenue as part of a charitable mission is for the School and its Board to make.

I think the email from TKS Headmaster was part of a campaign from ALL schools. Many parents not at TKS, received similar from their Principals/School Heads yesterday.

 

[I like to watch]

School fees may well be $28k, that is not the actual cost to the School.
It costs no more to have 23 in a class than 22!
Opportunity cost, only if there is a list of aspiring students hoping to be accepted by the School.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Scare crow and HJ this school funding point from governments is a real sleeper.
It is something of a surprise to me that the Greens, followed by their mouthpiece the ABC, has not cottoned on to the fact that, arguably, federal funds are being used to subsidise sports scholarships at elite schools. It's been gnawing at me since this funding debate got started.
I suppose it's testament to Gonski's disinterest in rugby, which he helped run into the ground at grammar, that it hasn't even occurred to him to investigate the issue!
Evidently Christine Milne is not a member of GGR!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Hugh Jarse]

ILTW has correctly nailed the issue of the impact of a student (or 12) on a School funded/subsided scholarship/bursary/fee relief on the bottom line budget of the school is more about the opportunity cost as opposed to actual fees charged at full market rates.

To keep things simpler and to deal with figures that people understand better, it is easier to do fag packet analyses using the full fee rate.

Inside Shoulder,

The use of Federal funds to subsidise talented athletes to attend elite schools is an interesting issue, and in the same breath the talented muscian scholarships could also be discussed. Academic and genuine Leadership scholarships are easier to sell as an appropriate use of government funds. In the favour of continuance of government funds being used for talented athletes at private schools (or genuine musical scholarships) is the fact that significant state funding is channelled towards a number of public Sports High Schools, and the Conservatorium (SP?) and Selective Performing Arts High Schools. Check out how much at MySchools web site. This establishes a precedent, does it not, that government money to provide for the "special needs" of talented athletes or creative students is not a misuse of funds.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Inside Shoulder,

The use of Federal funds to subsidise talented athletes to attend elite schools is an interesting issue, and in the same breath the talented muscian scholarships could also be discussed.

No - my point is i think its a dog whistle issue: it would not be hard to whip up community loathing for the idea that elite private schools have the government paying for those schools to, hopefully, win premierships.
I'm not talking about the right and wrongs - I've given up on that because there is no clearly right or wrong answer.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

True, but conversely it may not be to hard for the Schools to obfuscate the true cost of that Talented Athlete attending their school at a severley subsided rate as opposed to the cost to the public purse for that same talented athlete attending the closest Sports High School.

I can see your point that if all the scholarship boys were ensconsed in the Talented Athlete Programmes at Hills Sports, Matto Sports, Westfield Sports etc, then possibly the Waratah Shield would be won by the Sports High Schools rather than an "Elite Private School".

Removing the Scholarship issue, the same dog whistle could be blown about the federal funds being used for any capital works for Gyms, swimming pools, weights rooms, ovals, cricket pitches, boat sheds etc at "elite private schools". All these things are also used to assist those elite schools gain premierships.

If the argument is used that those works are funded from benefactor donations, P&F fundraising etc rather than the Federal funding which they most likely are, then the wolf pack will claim that the elite private schools have an unfair advantage because they do NOT have to fund capital works from their government funding, therefore they have more money to for salaries, which then allows the school to be able to afford to allocate more staff time to sporting duties and ... premierships.

In the elite private schools favour is the fact that the State budget can not support a mass exodus from the private education system, and relatively speaking when the state and federal subsidies to the private schools are added up, and compared to that made available to the public schools and non-elite private schools, the actual amount of government money is not all that significant. If that amount is dropped and the students "flock" to the non elite private schools or the public system, then the state is up for a motza which it can not afford.

It would be an interesting exercise to compare the average per student government spend(state and federal) at GPS schools to that at some government sector:
From My Schools Financial reports, the total per student recurring government (state and federal) income is:
New: State $991, Fed $2938, total Govt $3929
TKS: State $991, Fed $3244, total Govt $4235
Hills Sports: State $9180, Fed $1369, total Govt $10549
Granville Boys': State $13533, Fed $1687, total Govt $15220
Rose Bay Secondary: State $8867, Fed $1378, total Govt $10254
Scots: State $999, Fed $2023, total Govt $3022

I may be wrong, and I've probably missed something but If I was a State Treasurer, I would rather stump up or sponser a Talented Athlete from Granville area to attend Newington at $4k ($991 from state funds) than have to find $15k ($13533 from State Funds) for him to attend Granville Boys High, or $10.5k ($9180 from State) for him to go to Hills Sports.

If Scots was to close and dump 1700 students onto Rose Bay Secondary then the State/Fed is up for $12,294,400 based on the current funding model for Rose Bay as per MySchool.

The "elite Private Schools" actually represent excellent value for money and offer a great discounted education for the State for those talented athletes attending there on scholarship. Athletes on Scholarship at those schools can save the State/Fed Govt up to $12000 per student. Let the GPS have as many Free Fares as possible I say.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

HJ - when has a politician let logic get in the way of an ideological war?

 

[Brian Westlake]

No - my point is i think its a dog whistle issue: it would not be hard to whip up community loathing for the idea that elite private schools have the government paying for those schools to, hopefully, win premierships.
I'm not talking about the right and wrongs - I've given up on that because there is no clearly right or wrong answer.

This discussion goes 'round and 'round. All I know is, is that when unjust things happen, people get the shits and that is where politics becomes involved. This is the basis of our system of all tiers of government.

 

[Brian Westlake]

It would be an interesting exercise to compare the average per student government spend(state and federal) at GPS schools to that at some government sector:
From My Schools Financial reports, the total per student recurring government (state and federal) income is:
New: State $991, Fed $2938, total Govt $3929
TKS: State $991, Fed $3244, total Govt $4235
Hills Sports: State $9180, Fed $1369, total Govt $10549
Granville Boys': State $13533, Fed $1687, total Govt $15220
Rose Bay Secondary: State $8867, Fed $1378, total Govt $10254
Scots: State $999, Fed $2023, total Govt $3022

I may be wrong, and I've probably missed something but If I was a State Treasurer, I would rather stump up or sponser a Talented Athlete from Granville area to attend Newington at $4k ($991 from state funds) than have to find $15k ($13533 from State Funds) for him to attend Granville Boys High, or $10.5k ($9180 from State) for him to go to Hills Sports.

If Scots was to close and dump 1700 students onto Rose Bay Secondary then the State/Fed is up for $12,294,400 based on the current funding model for Rose Bay as per MySchool.

The "elite Private Schools" actually represent excellent value for money and offer a great discounted education for the State for those talented athletes attending there on scholarship. Athletes on Scholarship at those schools can save the State/Fed Govt up to $12000 per student. Let the GPS have as many Free Fares as possible I say.

I think you had best delete this Mr J. You will be taking over from some unnamed govt minister if you keep this up!!!!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

IS - once again true polies do not rely on logic but cold hard figures in a budget spreadsheet, have a remarkable ability to add clarity to decision making in ideological warfare, and they possess an entire logic of their own.

The Poly will use whatever version of logic they can find that is ideologically plausible to obfuscate their obsession with my precious money and the power that comes from the ability to determine where my precious public monies are expended.

 

[It is what it is]

This discussion goes 'round and 'round. All I know is, is that when unjust things happen, people get the shits and that is where politics becomes involved. This is the basis of our system of all tiers of government.

And it is said that the time people should most fear a Government is when that Government has no fear of its people.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Oh I am SOOOOOO far out of my league in this discussion. I think I will watch Big Brother. Where is Newbie when I need him?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

IS - once again true polies do not rely on logic but cold hard figures in a budget spreadsheet, have a remarkable ability to add clarity to decision making in ideological warfare, and they possess an entire logic of their own.

The Poly will use whatever version of logic they can find that is ideologically plausible to obfuscate their obsession with my precious money and the power that comes from the ability to determine where my precious public monies are expended.

I think youre agreeing with me but I cant touch the bottom any more so I'm with Brian - 'cept I cant watch BB!

 

[Gristlechewer]

I now have an image of Newbie, Brian, IS and Hugh Jarse, sitting with a bottle of less than average red. They are discussing the merits of whomever or whatever should stay at BB. I cringe. Some one? Anyone?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Less the average red? Moi? unlikely. Red? absolutely!

Staying at BB? No intention/desire to stay at Berrick Barnes's place. There are little baby things there now that Archie is on the scene. Those things were left behind in the rear view mirror of life many moons ago. Never to return.

 

[fleshman]

An interesting article that all should read - Just have a couple of queries:

1. "At one time, the Association of Heads of Independent Schools (of which Riverview is a member) had an agreement that sporting scholarships would not be offered. But in recent years (sadly, to the delight of many) the arrangement was struck down as contravening the Restrictive Trade Practices Act."

I haven't come across this explanation before about the reason why GPS schools offer sporting scholarships - it doesn't state however whether the restriction referred to is in relation to the schools conducting their education business or the players themselves - I can't see that it applies to the players as they are not offering their services for hire?

2."At Riverview, people are valued. They are not commodities to be traded. Here, loyalties grow year by year. We call it home-grown talent. Flashing a fistful of dollars to change your colours and your commitment is not our way. Allegiances are not for sale. We make that point very clearly now in our printed Rugby and Football programmes each week both here and at St Aloysius’ College. At Aloys’ they put the year of a boy’s enrolment at the College next to his name to show they do not deal in recent imports. We do the same here, indicating the teams a boy has worked his way through over the years in reaching the Firsts."

Looking at last week's Riverview Firsts team from their programme I note the following: (with boys names omitted)

No 3 - played in the 2nd XV last year but no rugby prior at View
No 4 - did not play rugby at View prior to this year
No 9- - played in the 16As last year but no rugby prior at View
No 10 - played in the 1st XV last year but no rugby prior at View
No 13 - played in the 2nd XV last year and the U15A the year before but no rugby prior at View.

That's 5 out of 15 or 1/3 of the First XV . I don't suggest that these players are on scholarships of any type - but they are all either recent arrivals at Riverview or perhaps they were there but playing soccer prior to their rugby conversion?

Please my good sir all these players are not on scholarships but pay for their spot in the school.
Oli Barker (3) played a few games 2nds last year and the rest 3's
Ben Hunt (4) would be the closest thing to an import I guess but he was playing 2s at start of season and he came to Riveview on his own accord and pays for his spot in the school
Mike Kennedy (9) has been signed up for Riverview since Year 8. Came to Riverview for a week in Year 9 to get a feel for school, not scouted
Alex Lyons (10) has relations and close friends that went and go to the school
Jack Reddan (13) caused me to laugh in hysterics. His older brother and Father both went to Riverview

Overall your points are invalid and the point of a scholarship is where a person is funded to go to the school. None of these boys are in that position. Lawyered

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I thought this might move the debate along a bit:

 

[southsider]

I thought this might move the debate along a bit:

theres no triangle

 

[Man on the hill]

theres no triangle

Always makes me laugh - Trinity - well mentioned in this thread - apparently regularly refer to many things as "triangle" - it has to do with their school shield and the "trinity" or 3 aspects of God in Christian teaching - father, son & holy Spirit. A nice little irony anyway.

 

[rugbyscribe]

Did you pay their school fees? if not then _____

Seems like he at least got the Headmaster's email!!