School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[sidelineview]

Interesting thought if each school, GPS or CAS were to have a complete first XV of boys in 2018 who hadn't joined the school after say year 9 would they still be competitive in their own competition? For instance, Riverview with Easy and Barker with Reimer etc.

If they both choose to play rugby post school it's justified.

 

[ruckman7]

If they both choose to play rugby post school it's justified.

I know club pathways are generally shithouse but by taking a kids spot who'd been at the school their entire life wouldn't that just make him not want to play after school. Even then look at the Rorkes from Riverview Harry and Charlie played Aus schoolboys and now both are playing league, while dan who had his spot in the 1's taken in his final year by a year 11 import is now only just starting to play for Warringah after being out of school since 2015. If boys get to keep playing rugby after school at the expense of other boys playing future is it really that justified

 

[sidelineview]

Im not sure about the answers to these problems tbh.
Some years in the opens in schools are more competitive than others and good players end up playing 2nd XV.
Other years allow for easier access into the 1st XV.
Sometimes its easier or harder to make a particular position in the 1st XV.
Luck of the draw i suppose although it would be a bitter pill to swallow for a player and parents to see a 1st XV spot being taken by an import.
I believe recruitment/scholarships has a place in schools but its like walking a tightrope.
It has to be conditional to justify it and kept to a 'sensible' level.
I cant see it being justifiable unless its genuinely assisting parents who could not otherwise afford the school fees.
Hopefully those students go onto play rugby post school. Thats always a gamble with any good schoolboy player.

There'll be a 100 arguments against it but thats my view.

 

[Joker]

AAGPS Code of Practice

No inducements such as sporting scholarships, whether direct, disguised, or at arm’s length, shall be offered by any member school. Financial assistance to talented sportsmen shall not form part of the enrolment strategy of any member school.

Brett Wellington was actively recruited by Scots College.

https://www.southcoastregister.com....-ward-of-sports-brett-wellington-rugby-union/

Scots "out of the blue approach" starts at approx 2.20

 

[formerflanker]

How many schools in Australia are contributing well developed players to the senior elite ranks?
4 in GPS, 3 in CAS, 1 in ISA, 4 in Brisbane, 2 in ACT.
Say 15. That's not a big base.
I must go to Oz Schoolboys web site for a statistical analysis. I'm sure there are stats for Super players' background too.

 

[Up the Guts]

Interesting thought if each school, GPS or CAS were to have a complete first XV of boys in 2018 who hadn't joined the school after say year 9 would they still be competitive in their own competition? For instance, Riverview with Easy and Barker with Reimer etc.

Reimer was turned down by Shore and went to Barker after that so it's harder to say he was recruited by Barker in the same way that other schools may recruit players.

 

[formerflanker]

Reimer was turned down by Shore and went to Barker after that so it's harder to say he was recruited by Barker in the same way that other schools may recruit players.

That analysis would be interesting but will fail to identify the number of Year 6 students approached during the Primary Schools rugby carnivals with offers for Year 7 entry.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

That analysis would be interesting but will fail to identify the number of Year 6 students approached during the Primary Schools rugby carnivals with offers for Year 7 entry.

That would be more or less all of them - certainly every kid in nswpssa side anyway

 

[Joker]

I just spoke with a family tonight who have been accepted into the Talented Athlete Support Program @ Newington. I was stunned. Looks like duck, walks like a duck....

The Talented Athlete Support Program (TASP) operates to assist students who are on a pathway to becoming professional sportsmen, Olympians or student-athletes at international universities and colleges. These students have unique complexities and pressures created by the competing interests of the College and their specific sports’ peak body. The boy in question is a rugby player who is Under 16 and appears in the recent rep teams. His family were approached by Newington to assist their son to acheive his rugby potential.

Is this the new way to say "scholarship"?

I quote from the questionnaire parents answered when they apply for their son to be in the program...

What support would help you to help your child with their sporting career from Newington eg. financial,
transport, flexibility?

Here is a boy who benefited from the Newington TASP.

Thoughts?

 

[cyclopath]

I just spoke with a family tonight who have been accepted into the Talented Athlete Support Program @ Newington. I was stunned. Looks like duck, walks like a duck..

The Talented Athlete Support Program (TASP) operates to assist students who are on a pathway to becoming professional sportsmen, Olympians or student-athletes at international universities and colleges. These students have unique complexities and pressures created by the competing interests of the College and their specific sports’ peak body. The boy in question is a rugby player who is Under 16 and appears in the recent rep teams. His family were approached by Newington to assist their son to acheive his rugby potential.

Is this the new way to say "scholarship"?

I quote from the questionnaire parents answered when they apply for their son to be in the program.

What support would help you to help your child with their sporting career from Newington eg. financial,
transport, flexibility?

Here is a boy who benefited from the Newington TASP.

Thoughts?

I'd like to see some of the Chairs he makes. That's my simple thought.
But seriously, who has any outrage left? For all the pious (yet blinkered) hand-wringing there are many examples of breach of the rules. I'm not sure why anyone is either surprised, nor bothers to get upset by it. The AAGPS Charter was recycled after ritual shredding ages ago.

 

[The Honey Badger]

The AAGPS Charter was recycled after ritual shredding ages ago.

Oh, but some of us still believe.

Especially those of us who went to Shore.


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[Quick Hands]

I just spoke with a family tonight who have been accepted into the Talented Athlete Support Program @ Newington. I was stunned. Looks like duck, walks like a duck..

The Talented Athlete Support Program (TASP) operates to assist students who are on a pathway to becoming professional sportsmen, Olympians or student-athletes at international universities and colleges. These students have unique complexities and pressures created by the competing interests of the College and their specific sports’ peak body. The boy in question is a rugby player who is Under 16 and appears in the recent rep teams. His family were approached by Newington to assist their son to acheive his rugby potential.

Is this the new way to say "scholarship"?

I quote from the questionnaire parents answered when they apply for their son to be in the program.

What support would help you to help your child with their sporting career from Newington eg. financial,
transport, flexibility?

Here is a boy who benefited from the Newington TASP.

Thoughts?

Think you find that your barking up the wrong tree with this one Joker. The TASP is aimed at students who are already at the school who are elite level sportsmen. It's not in any way a part of the admissions process. I'd have thought that assisting adolescents through the pressures of academic and sporting comitments would be considered a good thing.

Or do you think that such young men should be left to sink of swim without support from their school.

I can't see how providing assistance and support to students who are already at a school fits this thread.

Nice cheap shot at the kid in the poster. I suppose you'd prefer that he be unemployed on the streets of western Sydney?

The Talented Athlete Support Program (TASP) operates to assist students who are on a pathway to becoming professional sportsmen, Olympians or student-athletes at international universities and colleges. These students have unique complexities and pressures created by the competing interests of the College and their specific sports’ peak body.
TASP is designed to assist our elite sporting students to navigate this path. It helps our elite sporting students to:

• Manage their time
• Educates them on sports specific topics
• Monitors their load, and physical and mental well-being
• Ensures they achieve a balanced result from their time at Newington

The objective of the program is to help each one of our talented young sportsmen in working towards achieving their full potential, not only in sport, in academic and co-curricular activities, but also well as in their social life.
https://insites.newington.nsw.edu.au/sport/tasp/

 

[Joker]

Nice cheap shot at the kid in the poster. I suppose you'd prefer that he be unemployed on the streets of western Sydney?

The kid in the poster was the name given to me by the parents. He is now playing College ball in the USA. This image comes from the University. Personally I am happy for him. The boy (and family) I am speaking with is currently a student at a central coast high school. Thank you for the additional information.

 

[bigmac]

Oh, but some of us still believe.

Especially those of us who went to Shore.


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Hard to take it seriously.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[Joker]

From the SMH

Take a bow Jack

In the wake of the injury to Israel Folau last week, the new Wallaby back is young Jack Maddocks, who has something of a backstory. See, Jack is the son of a son-of-a-gun, Peter Maddocks, who was a legend in Sydney cricket and rugby circles in the 1970s before being badly injured in football which finished his sporting days. As a footballer he was so good that Mark Ella always said that his own career would have been put on hold if Maddocks had still been available.

Early on, young Jack seemed right on course for a fine football career of his own, playing in the “A” rugby team at Scots all the way through to his final year when the school imported so many champion rugby players on scholarships that a bunch of Maddocks' close mates were dropped.

Maddocks, appalled, stepped up and said, "If they go, I go". Maddocks was gone, dropped. He played his final year in the thirds, with his mates.

And now, only four years later, here he is, the hope of the side, in the Wallabies. You go, Jack. You go!

Told you so.

 

[GTPIH]

From the SMH

Take a bow Jack

In the wake of the injury to Israel Folau last week, the new Wallaby back is young Jack Maddocks, who has something of a backstory. See, Jack is the son of a son-of-a-gun, Peter Maddocks, who was a legend in Sydney cricket and rugby circles in the 1970s before being badly injured in football which finished his sporting days. As a footballer he was so good that Mark Ella always said that his own career would have been put on hold if Maddocks had still been available.

Early on, young Jack seemed right on course for a fine football career of his own, playing in the “A” rugby team at Scots all the way through to his final year when the school imported so many champion rugby players on scholarships that a bunch of Maddocks' close mates were dropped.

Maddocks, appalled, stepped up and said, "If they go, I go". Maddocks was gone, dropped. He played his final year in the thirds, with his mates.

And now, only four years later, here he is, the hope of the side, in the Wallabies. You go, Jack. You go!

Told you so.

It's a Fitz article so there's a fair bit of hyperbole. There may be an element of truth to it, but in reality he wasn't willing to commit to the training that was required for 1st AND 2nd XV. He had the same attitude in year 11 when he was wanted for the 1sts . He wasn't the only one. Numerous boys, including my own son (who would've only made 2nds in any case) chose to concentrate on the HSC and only train two days a week. That left the only rugby option as 3rds or below.

 

[Joker]

It's a Fitz article so there's a fair bit of hyperbole. There may be an element of truth to it, but in reality he wasn't willing to commit to the training that was required for 1st AND 2nd XV. He had the same attitude in year 11 when he was wanted for the 1sts . He wasn't the only one. Numerous boys, including my own son (who would've only made 2nds in any case) chose to concentrate on the HSC and only train two days a week. That left the only rugby option as 3rds or below.

That would explain why Scots won the 3rds that year.

 

[Up the Guts]

That would explain why Scots won the 3rds that year.

Pretty talented year with Maddocks, Crichton, McCauley etc. Almost too talented it would seem.

 

[Joker]

Pretty talented year with Maddocks, Crichton, McCauley etc. Almost too talented it would seem.

I heard that the coach of the 1st XV was very demanding at the time of those in "the program". I myself have friends who's sons had issues with what he demanded but stuck it out anyway. Marcus Blackburn was a tough, talented, astute coach who brought a winning formulae to Scots. He was provided with great financial support and almost free rein with when seeking players. The sports science division of Scots is simply world class. They created massive, well fit young men who powered over everyone till this year.

Contrary to popular belief, rugby players were never given scholarships but fees were paid in other creative ways through legitimate fund raising, league club agreements and sponsorship money companies like Audi and Ultimate Sports Nutrition, whose products include ''hardcore'' anabolics, meal replacements and creatine ''to deliver explosive gains in muscle size and strength''. This injection (no pun intended) of high level professionalism was designed to win GPS premierships. The shame was the manner they went about it has created issues for them ever since. Scots seems to have become the "Manly" of the GPS competition to many. We have our own team and barrack for however is playing Scots.

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

I was recently told that Maddocks didn’t play schoolboy 1st xv, as he was focussing on his cricket

And was minimising possibility of injury.. but that was pub talk

Anyway see how he goes tonight

Hopefully well ... Altgh we all know Fitz doesn’t mind embellishing the truth