S18 on its way

[Lindommer]

Oh, come on, OC, SANZAR using commonsense to structure its competition? That's WAY too sensible.

The consensus of opinion (and noises from SANZAR) is that there'll be four conferences. The problem is the Saffers have insisted the Southern Spears/Kings must be let in after political pressure from their government. Personally, I'm of the opinion any government should be told to go forth and multiply where governance in sporting matters is concerned, but we don't have to endure the vagaries of modern Saffer society. In this instance I'd suggest the iRB take a leaf out of FIFA's book and suspend any national body which tolerates government interference. As they've done recently with the Nigerian FA. However, as SANZAR seems to be going to bend to the Saffers' wishes there'll be six teams from SAf in their conference plus one from Argentina and another from either Singapore or Japan. As they insist on their sixth team they have to align with the other additional team, from Asia, and put up with the attendant travel. The noises emanating from Safferland is they're not keen on flights to and from Japan.

On another note: if the NZ conference has the Argentinean side and Australia the Japanese team, how does SANZAR even out travel before the finals?

 

[Tangawizi]

The 3 x 6 conference model does sound more appealing as a fan though.

The oz & kiwi teams would only be going away for one match at a time so not a massive ask. Biggest problem would be for the kiwis with the time difference to Argentina.

But I quite like the idea of heading up to Japan for a week on the powder snow at Sapporo followed up by a Reds match.

 

[Blue]

So it has been narrowed down Japan and Singapore for Team 18.

There is no way SA will support Japan. It's more than a day's travel from SA. Singapore is a single flight from SA which makes this a no brainer.I would be very surp[rised if Japan wins this. Very.

Not the right thing for rugby but this is the way the thing will go.

Will Singaporeans give a shite? Probably. They will adopt a team no problem. Issue will come in year two when the team has won only a handful of games and gets smashed. Their interest might fade. The success of the Singapore Lions (no they can't have that name but it would have been nice) will hinge on the roster. Can they get enough quality?

I for one will try my best to be there when the Bulls play their first away game. Eat the best food in the world. go to the rugby, eat some more of the best food in the world. Perfect.

I'd happily go for the Sushi and Udon if it ends up in Japan but I can't see it.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

possible name: SINGAPORE SLINGS.

They should design their jersey so it looks exactly like a sling. Complete with the hand drawn on there.

If they have to play tetchy bokkes just off a 23 hour plane ride half the pricks are going to be in slings after the match anyway

 

[Rebel rouser]

There is no way SA will support Japan. It's more than a day's travel from SA. Singapore is a single flight from SA which makes this a no brainer.I would be very surp[rised if Japan wins this. Very.

Not the right thing for rugby but this is the way the thing will go.

Will Singaporeans give a shite? Probably. They will adopt a team no problem.

Unfortunately, I think you're probably right. I imagine SA will flex their muscle on this and insist that is is based in Singapore for the sake of less travel. But I do think this is a stupid, stupid decision.

It's worth noting the comments from Bob Turner, who set up the Singapore Slingers, that lasted just 3 seasons in Australia's NBL.

“We were the first professional team there and within a short space of time, the expats loved it because they were seeing good sport,” Turner said.

“But the Singaporeans who loved basketball still wanted to see their own.
“That was very difficult given the quality of the game that Singaporeans could play at that level.

“So it was almost like we were renting the Singapore name, rather than being Singapore.”

Essentially, the support became entirely expats, which is a small community, and was not sustainable.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...977014538?nk=af72714eff3cd96746866422680ec0a1

 

[wamberal]

Basketball is far more popular in Asia than rugby. If a basketball franchise cannot survive in Singapore, rugby has no chance. But we knew that, didn't we? (Or perhaps I should say that anybody who has spent more than five minutes in an Asian country knows that).

 

[Melbourne Terrace]

Basketball is far more popular in Asia than rugby. If a basketball franchise cannot survive in Singapore, rugby has no chance. But we knew that, didn't we? (Or perhaps I should say that anybody who has spent more than five minutes in an Asian country knows that).

Yep, the game is utterly niche there behind Football and Basketball. I don't particularly agree with it but putting a team in Japan can be justified by the fact that there is a Rugby community there with the potential for some quality players.

Singapore getting a team is just so SANZAR can wave their dick at sponsors and broadcasters saying "hey look, we're in Asia now. You should pay attention to us!" while playing down the facts that it'll be yet another team in a mostly vacant stadium and not a single local player will play for them because Singapore locals don't play Rugby, the clubs there are all dominated by expats.

 

[Blue]

All the more makes Singapore sounds like a shite idea.

Which is exactly why SANZAR will go for it.

Screw the fact that the game is for real in Japan.

Via Hong Kong there is a flight that takes 18.5 hours and via Singapore 21.5 hours from Jhb to Tokyo.

Two flights across that many time zones is just a complete bitch. No two ways about it. Especially going east.

 

[Omar Comin']

The proposed team in Singapore, the Asia-Pacific Dragons will play the AB Maori in November.

Japan will play them twice in the two weeks before.

I guess the levels of support for these games may give us some further insight. Though perhaps the 18th side will already be chosen by then?

 

[ChargerWA]

It's SA foisting this abomination of an idea on us. If SANZAR decides Japan is the way to go, tough titties I say. Enjoy the flight.

 

[Rebel rouser]

The proposed team in Singapore, the Asia-Pacific Dragons will play the AB Maori in November.

Japan will play them twice in the two weeks before.

I guess the levels of support for these games may give us some further insight. Though perhaps the 18th side will already be chosen by then?

You have to be very careful about reading too much into these sort of one off marquee games imo. It tells you very little about how many people actually care about a game and will show up week in week out - especially when a team is not winning.

Want an example?

Melbourne had one of the highest ever attendances for a rugby union crowd back in 1997 - 90,000 for the Bledisloe.

It also has the highest crowd record for a 7s crowd in Australia. 51,000 in 2006.

But which Australian state has the highest super rugby membership?
Errr, anyone but Melbourne.

 

[Boomer]

All the more makes Singapore sounds like a shite idea.

Via Hong Kong there is a flight that takes 18.5 hours and via Singapore 21.5 hours from Jhb to Tokyo.

Two flights across that many time zones is just a complete bitch. No two ways about it. Especially going east.

A long flight, no doubt.

Time zones - Sg same time zone as Perf. Tokyo plus an hour.

I'm sure you big tough fellows can handle that? It's always amazed me, the complaints the Saffers make about time zones.

Concrete.

 

[Omar Comin']

You have to be very careful about reading too much into these sort of one off marquee games imo. It tells you very little about how many people actually care about a game and will show up week in week out - especially when a team is not winning.

Want an example?

Melbourne had one of the highest ever attendances for a rugby union crowd back in 1997 - 90,000 for the Bledisloe.

It also has the highest crowd record for a 7s crowd in Australia. 51,000 in 2006.

But which Australian state has the highest super rugby membership?
Errr, anyone but Melbourne.

True, but that's a different example. The people in Melbourne were supporting their national teams in a huge annual event.

The Asia-Pacific Dragons are a private franchise playing a one off match against Japan. It might have some novelty value but not a hell of a lot of substance. If it were to get a big crowd then just maybe the Singapore venture has legs. Though I still think they'd need to somehow find at least a couple of locals that were capable of playing professionally at super rugby level.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

According to Fairfax,

"A decision on Super Rugby's Asian expansion could require mediation, with Australia and South Africa expected to butt heads over whether Singapore or Japan gains inclusion.

"Earlier this month, Fairfax Media revealed expressions of interest from both, and Sanzar confirmed yesterday that Singapore and Japan submitted the only bids for the 18th team to join an Argentinian side and South Africa's Southern Kings from 2016.

"Now those bids have been lodged with Sanzar chief executive Greg Peters, both will have their respective business cases, broadcast revenue potential and competitiveness assessed before a final decision is reached. Additional teams will need around $10 million per year to cover travel, wages and other expenses.

"But robust debate is expected before Singapore or Japan is selected by late October, with an initial agreement between the three Sanzar nations seemingly unlikely.

"Fairfax Media understands Australia has flagged support for Japan during Sanzar discussions, backing up former Wallabies coach Eddie Jones.

"Now in charge of Japan, Jones recently moved to protect his adopted interests by labelling Singapore's proposal a "joke" and saying Sanzar would "lose all credibility" in selecting the region.

"Australia's support for Japan is also thought to be based on the country's comparatively strong rugby history, established infrastructure, local competition and World Cup hosting rights in 2019.

"By contrast, South Africa are firmly in Singapore's camp due to travel concerns. An 11-hour flight to Singapore appeals to them far more than the 22 hours it takes to get to Japan. Given they produce the lion's share of Sanzar's broadcast revenue, there are already fears South Africa will attempt to bully its coalition partners into agreement.

"With Australia likely to opt for Japan, New Zealand's position remains unclear.

"New Zealand Rugby chief executive Steve Tew said yesterday the governing body had deliberately taken an open stance until the tender process was complete, but declined to comment further.

"Singapore's bid is based around the Asia Pacific Dragons, a team owned by entrepreneur Eric Series, who also sponsors New Zealand rugby through his company Sealegs.

Series' ties to the Pacific Islands could change New Zealand's neutral position, but if Australia holds firm, mediation will be needed."

What chance NZ throws the 3 x 6-team conf option out there as a compromise I.e. something no one's completely happy with but everyone can learn to live with. Then again it's those sort of compromises that have made Super Rugby the race horse designed by a committee it is today.

 

[Blue]

A long flight, no doubt.

Time zones - Sg same time zone as Perf. Tokyo plus an hour.

I'm sure you big tough fellows can handle that? It's always amazed me, the complaints the Saffers make about time zones.

Concrete.

Guess you have not travelled much, big man.

 

[Blue]

It's SA foisting this abomination of an idea on us. If SANZAR decides Japan is the way to go, tough titties I say. Enjoy the flight.

Let me guess. You were banging your chest as you wrote that?

Unless you haven't noticed, SARU wields a little too much power in SANZAR. Or are you new to the soap opera?

It's the way it is. The bed was made a long time ago. This is just the result of a very difficult partnership.

If SA does not want the Japanese travel then Japan will not get the deal. Unfortunately for the game it is that simple.

And thanks I will enjoy my flight from Sydney to go watch the Bulls play the Singapore Spooners.

I am really hoping that my first trip is a ticket to Tokyo via Sapporo and Happo One but I won't hold my breath.

 

[Blue]

According to Fairfax,

"A decision on Super Rugby's Asian expansion could require mediation, with Australia and South Africa expected to butt heads over whether Singapore or Japan gains inclusion.

"Earlier this month, Fairfax Media revealed expressions of interest from both, and Sanzar confirmed yesterday that Singapore and Japan submitted the only bids for the 18th team to join an Argentinian side and South Africa's Southern Kings from 2016.

"Now those bids have been lodged with Sanzar chief executive Greg Peters, both will have their respective business cases, broadcast revenue potential and competitiveness assessed before a final decision is reached. Additional teams will need around $10 million per year to cover travel, wages and other expenses.

"But robust debate is expected before Singapore or Japan is selected by late October, with an initial agreement between the three Sanzar nations seemingly unlikely.

"Fairfax Media understands Australia has flagged support for Japan during Sanzar discussions, backing up former Wallabies coach Eddie Jones.

"Now in charge of Japan, Jones recently moved to protect his adopted interests by labelling Singapore's proposal a "joke" and saying Sanzar would "lose all credibility" in selecting the region.

"Australia's support for Japan is also thought to be based on the country's comparatively strong rugby history, established infrastructure, local competition and World Cup hosting rights in 2019.

"By contrast, South Africa are firmly in Singapore's camp due to travel concerns. An 11-hour flight to Singapore appeals to them far more than the 22 hours it takes to get to Japan. Given they produce the lion's share of Sanzar's broadcast revenue, there are already fears South Africa will attempt to bully its coalition partners into agreement.

"With Australia likely to opt for Japan, New Zealand's position remains unclear.

"New Zealand Rugby chief executive Steve Tew said yesterday the governing body had deliberately taken an open stance until the tender process was complete, but declined to comment further.

"Singapore's bid is based around the Asia Pacific Dragons, a team owned by entrepreneur Eric Series, who also sponsors New Zealand rugby through his company Sealegs.

Series' ties to the Pacific Islands could change New Zealand's neutral position, but if Australia holds firm, mediation will be needed."

What chance NZ throws the 3 x 6-team conf option out there as a compromise I.e. something no one's completely happy with but everyone can learn to live with. Then again it's those sort of compromises that have made Super Rugby the race horse designed by a committee it is today.

Well there we have it.

SANZAR status quo.

A race horse designed by committee is about the best way I have ever seen it described.

The only way SA will concede to a Japanese team is if they get some financial compensation.

 

[ChargerWA]

Let me guess. You were banging your chest as you wrote that?

Unless you haven't noticed, SARU wields a little too much power in SANZAR. Or are you new to the soap opera?

It's the way it is. The bed was made a long time ago. This is just the result of a very difficult partnership.

If SA does not want the Japanese travel then Japan will not get the deal. Unfortunately for the game it is that simple.

And thanks I will enjoy my flight from Sydney to go watch the Bulls play the Singapore Spooners.

I am really hoping that my first trip is a ticket to Tokyo via Sapporo and Happo One but I won't hold my breath.

I'm sorry for the lack of empathy, but as a supporter of the most travelled sports team in the world, if the Japanese bid is significantly better I don't think we can ignore that.

I much prefer the 3 x 6 conference model and we will take Japan. But that just doesn't seem to be on the cards.

 

[Boomer]

Guess you have not travelled much, big man.

Unfortunately you'd be wrong.

Teams make do, and, for the SARU, it's the price of admission for the Kings.

 

[A mutterer]

The dollar value associated with Japan is far higher than Singapore. Japanese fans are fanatic about their teams (think about their baseball comp) and the crowd plus broadcast revenue would be expected to be significantly higher than an artificial expat team.