RWC - Wallabies v Ireland - 17th September 2011

[Athilnaur]

True. It does seem to be broader than Deans. Many of the players since RWC07QF have changed but the problems seem to be the same. That said, it is also parts of Deans' job to manage the individual players.

I am sure we can all agree that there is enough blame to go around. I think in a separate thread even the supporters got blame. Personally I don't know how I can bear the shame. I will have to give myself a stern talking to.

Hear hear. I have already given myself one.

 

[matty_k]

I'm pretty sure StuartFaz was talking about the fans at the game.

 

[antipodean]

True. It does seem to be broader than Deans. Many of the players since RWC07QF have changed but the problems seem to be the same.

Vickerman and Elsom played both matches.

 

[RedsHappy]

I am not going to defend Robbie, in no way at all. Some of his selections, squad and team, and his use of the bench baffles the mind. But you can't really blame him totally for the players not showing up. My manager is a complete clusterfuck but I still show up to work everyday and do a damn good job. I know I'm not putting my body on the line, but that is their chosen career path.

Mr T: I have something of a problem with this. I would not if (a) other high-ranked national teams in this WC were just as inconsistent by this stage and/or (b) if say the 2011 S15 Aus teams were consistently guilty of 'not showing up' meaning that this is some sort of proven generic Australian rugby attribute.

But just look at the application that Wales showed today for most of 80 v Samoa, and same for Samoa too. Look at the lower-ranked USA's excellent application and their own breed of intensity for their games. Then look at, for example, the Reds and Force throughout the S15 2011; these two Aus teams had very different strengths and weaknesses but jeez they applied themselves well for most of their, what, 15-18 games played nearly every week for months on end. It's not as though consistency of intensity and application by a group of well-paid professional players is proven to be some kind of esoteric coaching mystery that only very few have ever or will ever master in the dark arts of rugby.

If certain players will not consistently play their hearts out for their national teams, they should simply not be there and better to rebuild with ones that would. But IMO that's not the issue with top Aus players in 2011, or these Wallabies particularly. I believe this aspect of the Wallabies' problems lie with a coaching style, culture and structure that is not properly suited to skills development in depth, nor to the right type of psychological confidence-building and motivation. (And this has nothing to do with team rev-ups and sheds yelling.) That's why IMO the Wallabies have only the capacity to 'turn up' after they sort of humiliate themselves with poor losses, etc - that almost negative motivation comes from a kind of raw pride and survival response, not from a team culture that has motivation and intensity built into it.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The better team won last night because they know the difference between international rugby & world cup rugby. The Wallabies aren't patient enough to go 5 phases without Cooper or Beale throwing a flick pass or attempting a grubber kick which doesn't help.

Look at the All Blacks in Bledisloe 2 when they were getting caned by 17 points they actually strung together 26 phases & the most amazing stat of the 26 phases is that neither Horwill or Vickerman got penalised.

Or a chip kick in their own half or, preferably, their own quarter

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Quade Cooper is a very good footballer but he has never been coached to be a great international 5/8. He will never be a great international 5/8 because he cannot control his own game let alone the whole game.

 

[twenty seven]

Beale was the biggest ball turnover and man for man the forwards were out played.
Give the front row credit, they were unfairly punished penalty wise in the scrummaging. Anybody who has packed in a scrum would have been pretty pissed with the peanlties.
JOC (James O'Connor) is too small for a 12, reckon he will get smashed. Besides why did he not go looking for the ball. Look at where Digby has scored his tries, RARLEY on the wing.
AND WHY did the Irish get so much rest time on the paddock. In the many years of rugby I have never seen the boundaries of time wasting pushed without the Ref getting sick of it and a penalty being threatened. Surprised that tea and biikies weren't served. Or a pint for that matter.
As too Horwill and his Captaincy, GET SERIOUS. JOC (James O'Connor) didn't even bother to turn up for the team announcement and photo shoot. If the powers to be can't control this young crew and their brand, how the hell is he supposed too. I feel that there is some serious shit happening behind doors and a lot has to do with the coach, lack of respect from certain players, especially for the jumper that so many others would love to pull on.
Lastly - where was Beau Robinson as this was his type of game.

 

[#1?]

As miserable as the loss may be, to bring back Bill, we need to beat a couple of good teams in winner take all knock out games.

So what if this happens in the QF and SF.

All is not lost ........ (yet)

 

[Shiggins]

Can someone break down who we will
Most likely play if we win at the top of the pool? Both games
And who will it most likely be i we play in all 3 final stages.


Go the force!!!!

 

[Braveheart81]

The quarter finals on our side of the draw are Winner C vs Runner Up D, Runner Up C vs Winner D.

Assuming Ireland doesn't capitulate, we are playing to be runner up in pool C and will almost certainly play South Africa as Winner of Pool D.

A win there would most likely give us New Zealand in the semi final (assuming they beat France in the pool and then Scotland or Argentina in the quarter final).

 

[Fredfreduels]

Just my opinion:

15. Kurtley Beale. 8 Good to see him back in some form though I cringe every time he chip kicks.
14. James O'Connor 6 Solid
13. Anthony Fainga'a. 3 Just not his night and his rushing up in the line was exposed on an occasion. I really hope that this is not the end of his tournament.
12. Pat McCabe. 5 After some early errors he put on some really great tackles and looked for work, if only Ant had got that pass off :-(
11. Adam Ashley-Cooper. 5 Solid, I think he will be at 13 if we make the finals
10. Quade Cooper. 5 A lot of people expect far too much of him. Yes some of his magic passes didn't come off but he was dangerous in attack.
9. Will Genia. 5 Had limited opportunities with a terrible forward pack.

8. Radike Samo. 3
7. Ben McCalman. 4
6. Rocky Elsom. 3
5. James Horwill. 3
4. Dan Vickerman 5
3. Ben Alexander 2
2. Tatafu Polota-Nau. 1 - I love the guy but that was the worst I have ever seen him play
1. Sekope Kepu. 2



The game was lost in the forwards not the backs.

 

[thedubs]

Has anyone mentioned that Ireland weren't playing a fetcher at 7 even?

I thought sleep would calm me down. Wrong! What an inept and spineless performance from our Wannabees.

On a related note, notwithstanding one should show grace in defeat, I can't help but feel angry that, four years on, we're in exactly the same situation as before. That is, teams that spoil, kill ball and kick it away are protected and rewarded by the officials in charge. Irrespective of the result, that was a god-awful game of rugby and terrible advertisement for the sport.

This World Cup has lost much of it's lustre for me.

Ireland didnt kick the ball away that much. Its only when ROG had to come on for D'arcy that it occured. And to be fair, it wasnt pointless kicking away like Beale at times, it was tactical, given it was done for territory and it was raining like that scene out of Forrest Gump.

Nearly every neutral ive seen on other forums has said its been the game of the WC. They're right. Although you mightnt see it as an Aussie fan, the intensity at ruck, set peice, tackling - and before the rain the willingness of both Cooper and Sexton to run their backs was positive rugby.

Even if you do depart in the QF's - Unlike last time where you had quite a few older members with Mortlock etc. in the squad - you have instead the youngest squad out of all the top 10 nations in the comp! You can only become better, and bettering from a position where you start off with a tri nations title.

 

[thedubs]

Those are the ratings from a 50-0 drubbing.

When an Australian side only puts 6 points against its opposition, thats fair ratings. This Wallaby team has the best set of backs ive ever seen. The only team that can match their back play is France in the Blanco era. As an Ireland fan I'd of considered it a good result if you Aussies only put three tries past us! To only convert 2 penalties highlights a complete malfunction. Ratings are justified IMO.

 

[The_Riddler]

The Wallabies will not win the World Cup. Initially I thought David Campese's comments pre-World Cup that the Wallabies are too young and inexperienced to win Bill was off the mark. After last night's performance Campo was spot on. In clutch games when things aren't going your way you need old heads who can steady the ship. Some of the Wallabies decision making last night was beyond pathetic. Low percentage plays are low percentage plays for a reason.

 

[cyclopath]

When an Australian side only puts 6 points against its opposition, thats fair ratings. This Wallaby team has the best set of backs ive ever seen. The only team that can match their back play is France in the Blanco era. As an Ireland fan I'd of considered it a good result if you Aussies only put three tries past us! To only convert 2 penalties highlights a complete malfunction. Ratings are justified IMO.

Pfft. I'd take Gregan, Larkham, Horan, Little / Herbert, Roff , Tune and Burke (circa 1999) as a package every day of the week. And that's just from OZ. A backline is a unit, not a collective of individuals, which is more what we have currently. Talented, yes, but not functioning as a unit. Anyway, the forwards are the bigger problem, so a moot point anyway.

 

[Jnor]

Glad 27 has brought it up but there's an elephant in the room here. If Elsom was still captain there would have been a million posts calling for him to be dropped and set on fire; yet of every page I've read (there are fucking 40), there has been no mention of Horwill's captaincy last night.

For a team to capitulate like that there has to be some blame on the captain. I wasn't at the ground so it may have been off camera but not once on the telecast did I see Horwill take his players into a huddle and stick a fucking rocket up them for not doing their jobs. If he did do this why wasn't it effective? Why wasn't he in Lawrence's ear telling him the ridiculous Irish time wasting was giving him the shits and telling him to do something about it?

Don't get me wrong, Robbie fucked up, Bryce fucked up a bit, and the other 14 players on the field definitely fucked up. I think Horwill is a great player and the right call was made to bring him in as captain but last night was definitely not his finest hour.

Well played to the Irish, they obviously executed their game plan to a tee. Almost 24 hours later and I'm still seething about this. I've given myself an uppercut and told myself to move on but I can't. Not yet. BaaBaa your blog post summed up my feelings entirely. The saddest thing is the cycle will just repeat.

 

[Bowside]

The Wallabies will not win the World Cup. Initially I thought David Campese's comments pre-World Cup that the Wallabies are too young and inexperienced to win Bill was off the mark. After last night's performance Campo was spot on. In clutch games when things aren't going your way you need old heads who can steady the ship. Some of the Wallabies decision making last night was beyond pathetic. Low percentage plays are low percentage plays for a reason.

I think the age thing is a cop out to be honest. The old heads were there in 07 and it made no difference. The old heads were not there for the reds and it made no difference.

 

[cyclopath]

The mythical leadership group was not taking control. Agree Horwill should have pushed the issues with Lawrence, but I doubt Lawrence would do four-fifths of anything about it if he had. But there should have been some talk about what they were going to do about Irish forwards lying on our ball. If the ref is playing to the dominant team (not an entirely unfair thing), it is up to the players to do something about it. But they didn't. Insipid is the word that keeps springing to mind. There should also be some talk about low percentage plays being perpetuated, but apparently that wasn't happening either. Wallabies had good field position a few times and squandered it when taking a tackle and recycling was a good option. Since when do short 22 drop-outs work well? But we kept at them. Nuffies, numpties, whatever you want to call it. I'm fucking annoyed.

 

[waratahjesus]

When an Australian side only puts 6 points against its opposition, thats fair ratings. This Wallaby team has the best set of backs ive ever seen. The only team that can match their back play is France in the Blanco era. As an Ireland fan I'd of considered it a good result if you Aussies only put three tries past us! To only convert 2 penalties highlights a complete malfunction. Ratings are justified IMO.

not to get stuck into them, cos i believe they both do the job there there for. but having Mccabe and Ant in the centres prevents the call that we have a great backline. We have fantastic 9, 10 in attack with a roving winger (whos out injured) and a fullback that sparks individual moments but doesnt seem to fit int he current style of play. its not that great at all.

 

[da_grubster]

As miserable as the loss may be, to bring back Bill, we need to beat a couple of good teams in winner take all knock out games.

So what if this happens in the QF and SF.

All is not lost ........ (yet)

Well, Aus will have to win 3 pressure slugfests to win a world cup. Which may happen but personally, I think that is beyond this side of yours.

Ireland were committed but limited. If you come up against the saffers in the quarters I think they will strangle the life out of Aus.

Australia are a good side and possibly a very good side but it will be a year or two away from that happening.