da_grubster
Ted Fahey (11)
you think far too much of your side.
- Status
you think far too much of your side.
Mr Doug
Dick Tooth (41)
Fellow members, I hate to trivialise last night's result, however, I must make you aware of certain facts: Throughout the 2011 S15 season I have been wearing my red jocks every time our beloved Qld Reds won! Likewise I have been wearing those same "lucky" red jocks when the Wobs won on each occassion up to and including the Italy match on the 11/9. Yesterday, those same red jocks were ready for the Ireland match, however, as I had a massage and Osteopathic adjustment at 3pm, I wore another pair with the intention of a pre-match swap. Alas, I failed to don the aforementioned red jocks and was horrified to discover this morning that I had been wearing a green pair which matched perfectly with the Irish colours! I ask for your forgiveness and promise that such a stupid, inconsiderate and costly mistake will not occur again!
P
potjiekos
Guest
"Scenes reminiscent of easter some 2000 years ago..... One minute He's being welcomed with palms at His feet, the next He's being crucified!" - Potjiekos.
If anything, the wobblies loss at the hand (...and feet!) of the paddies was long overdue and just what the doctor ordered.
Beyond the fact that its exposed a great deal of fickle, fair-weathered Aussie 'fans' ....(nb: I didn't mention 'die-hard' supporters ....of the blood and guts variety!), the loss has highlighted several cardinal issues, none more pertinent then the culture of COMPLACENCY that prevails within the Wallaby setup from time to time.
One can almost forgive the wobblies for beating their chests like King Kong of old.....what with 'Phil Kearns-esque' union scribes raising the status of mere mortal rugby players to that of demi-god superstars, so much so that I'm having a hard time getting the image .... of JOC (James O'Connor) and co. checking their hair and make-up immediately after pulling their jumpers over their heads prior to running onto the park or of Diggers choreographing his next try scoring celebration whilst recuperating from his injury..... out of my head!
Just a few weeks ago these exact same players were hailed by all and sundry as national heroes after the 3N.... Guys like Antfingers singled out for blindside tackles and resolute defence, QC (Quade Cooper) and the crew for their 'happy feet' and unpredictability ...even Robbie Deans received some plaudits, yet the underlying problems persisted.
IMHO perhaps this loss is exactly what the Wallabies needed to bring them down to earth, alternatively to prize away a few golden bananas stuck up their 'superstar' ars*s. Either way you look at it the team will be foced to do a great deal of introspection and hopefully get rid of all the complacency!
If anything, the wobblies loss at the hand (...and feet!) of the paddies was long overdue and just what the doctor ordered.
Beyond the fact that its exposed a great deal of fickle, fair-weathered Aussie 'fans' ....(nb: I didn't mention 'die-hard' supporters ....of the blood and guts variety!), the loss has highlighted several cardinal issues, none more pertinent then the culture of COMPLACENCY that prevails within the Wallaby setup from time to time.
One can almost forgive the wobblies for beating their chests like King Kong of old.....what with 'Phil Kearns-esque' union scribes raising the status of mere mortal rugby players to that of demi-god superstars, so much so that I'm having a hard time getting the image .... of JOC (James O'Connor) and co. checking their hair and make-up immediately after pulling their jumpers over their heads prior to running onto the park or of Diggers choreographing his next try scoring celebration whilst recuperating from his injury..... out of my head!
Just a few weeks ago these exact same players were hailed by all and sundry as national heroes after the 3N.... Guys like Antfingers singled out for blindside tackles and resolute defence, QC (Quade Cooper) and the crew for their 'happy feet' and unpredictability ...even Robbie Deans received some plaudits, yet the underlying problems persisted.
IMHO perhaps this loss is exactly what the Wallabies needed to bring them down to earth, alternatively to prize away a few golden bananas stuck up their 'superstar' ars*s. Either way you look at it the team will be foced to do a great deal of introspection and hopefully get rid of all the complacency!
Mank
Ted Thorn (20)
I haven't read the entire thread, so apologies if this has been posted already. But, I see many people attributing blame, particular at Deans. IMO, a manager has a job to ensure the squad get what they need to go out onto the field and perform at their best. After that it's up to them to execute their gameplan. I don't think Deans has failed in that department.
However, what I think really went wrong for Australia in this match was the shape of the ball. The bounce just did not go your way. Some days in rugby, not much does. A few bad ref calls, a few bad bounces, happening at important times, means you never get to play the game you should be playing. I liken this game to the SA vs Wales game. Every time SA got some field position or a bit of momentum, something would go wrong. Handling error, or penalty (a couple were incorrect) and suddenly Wales were right back in the driving seat. Like Wales, Ireland yesterday got to control the tempo and style of the game. A lot of this was down to their competitiveness and physicality, and sure, getting away with a bit at ruck time, but a lot of it was also just pure 'bounce of the ball' stuff at bad times for Australia. SA were very lucky to come away with the win, Australia unfortunately weren't.
However, what I think really went wrong for Australia in this match was the shape of the ball. The bounce just did not go your way. Some days in rugby, not much does. A few bad ref calls, a few bad bounces, happening at important times, means you never get to play the game you should be playing. I liken this game to the SA vs Wales game. Every time SA got some field position or a bit of momentum, something would go wrong. Handling error, or penalty (a couple were incorrect) and suddenly Wales were right back in the driving seat. Like Wales, Ireland yesterday got to control the tempo and style of the game. A lot of this was down to their competitiveness and physicality, and sure, getting away with a bit at ruck time, but a lot of it was also just pure 'bounce of the ball' stuff at bad times for Australia. SA were very lucky to come away with the win, Australia unfortunately weren't.
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
You must be somewhat youthful. The 1984 and 1991 backlines would walk all over this side's backline. Better at 9, better at 10, better at 12, better at 13, better at 14. We can argue about 11 and 15. The 1999 backline with Horan at his imperious best was no slouch either. This backline has the potential in the next few years to reach those dizzy heights but it is too young, inexperienced and badly coached to be anywhere near those backlines.
T
thedubs
Guest
No you either misunderstood my comment or are over analyzing it.
What i said or atleast implied is that something happened that caused the Wallabies to misfire on all levels - which most people are, probably rightly, calling Irelands forward dominance in all aspects as the main culpritt.
You could look further and accuse the play makers like Cooper as not having enough patience.
I dont think its really bigging my team up if I say the Wallabies should of scored more than 2/3 tries against us. Infact its quite the opposite in that im bigging your team up.
T
thedubs
Guest
No doubting that. I still rate the French backline of my previous post as being the best backline in rugby pre-1999. Wales of the late 70's and 80's would come second after that, then the Horan-Campese generation after that.
T
thedubs
Guest
In terms of making moments of magic - I rate this backline as one of the best ever. But hey, thats my opinion. The Gregan generation had style but they had the clinicalness to finish moves which the current Wallabies dont have. Its clinicalness I suppose that makes a backline great, not style. The All Blacks know that all too well.
But i'd still watch the Wallabies any day of the week!
M
MontyBurns
Guest
Possibly the most ironic post in the whole thread, based on the hiding your team took.
Was that the 10-41 drubbing by Tonga, or the 7-83 shellacking from Japan?
Grubbie is a Kiwi.
Maybe, as a newbie, you might read and look before you come in guns blazing and look a bit of a dill?
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I generally agree with this except that I think all the captains are shit scared of talking to the refs because they have been very hard on any dissent.
M
MontyBurns
Guest
Ah - I was wondering where the arrogant Kiwis were hiding. They are usually a little classier than that. Of course, we can't rule out the possibility that he wasn't able to correctly read the post he replied to...
Jeez mate for post number 2 that is awfully combative. Maybe turn it down a touch until you have worked out the tone of the place a bit better.
S
Skippy
Guest
Mate this is all true but at the moment he's no David Knox or Scott Bowen either!
The kid is freakishly talented in some areas. Incredibly wanting in others. A coaches' job should be to improve his weak areas not pander his ego and just focus on his good... and build the whole game plan around the 'good' like moving him to 15, Beale to wing etc etc.
His value to the Wallabies is always going to be hard to put a price on. On his day he can be brilliant. When it's not his day... absolutely terrible. Some would say, a lot like Carlos Spencer and Michalek that this is not what you want in a test match. You go for 'avergage' or consistency everytime like a Barnes... a steady head and consistent performer without the extravagance and flair of Cooper but also without the flaws.
Cooper is just a kid and still learning. I'm prepare to give him that. But stop talking yourself up, stop tweeting, work on your weaknesses and stop being so bloody arrogant. Then when you can walk the walk Quade... talk the talk all your like mate.
If you watch Carter, he is the best despite being unable to do most of the 'magic' Cooper can do. He is the best because he does the basic right every time, plays the right percentage options, keeps his head and doesn't overplay his hand. For 79minutes he just makes his kicks and shuffles the ball on... but when he spots the gap or overlap BANG... he takes it. That's a world class player.
G
gOst
Guest
The Refs performance was very average. However it wasn't completely all Ireland’s way, Horwill was offside when Ireland had a 4 on 2 overlap and the ref gave Oz put in to a scrum? With regards the scrum being penalised, there was occasions when the props from both sides lost their binds, unfortunately for Australia the ref always seemed to be on the side where the Aus prop was dropping his bind. As far as I could see there was 2 clear occasions where Australia was unfairly pinged in the scrum the rest I thought were 50:50 or correct. Ireland was the dominant scrum therefore any 50:50 decisions are given to Ireland.
Slowing the ball down, Darcy was embarrassingly obvious standing on the wrong side of the ruck; although Horwill was lazy enough is getting back onside on a number of occasions. Heaslip sticking his paw on the ball in the ruck should have at least resulted in a strong word from the ref or even a yellow.
I understand that the SH style of running is attractive to watch but I think it's a bit unfair to dismiss an impenetrable defence as horrible rugby. As mentioned in another post it wasn't like Ireland kicked every ball aimlessly, when the opportunity arose Ireland did try to run with ball in hand.
The general negative feeling towards Ireland's style of play in the game is a bit strange, what did you expect? They kept things tight and controlled the tempo. "No you’re doing it wrong, throw loose passes so we can use our superior broken field running rugby".
Another issue people have highlighted is the Irish guys going down pretending to be injured. Obviously I'm not naive enough to think it was all legitimate but in fairness, tackling with that intensity for 80 minutes would cause a certain degree of genuine injuries.
On an individual note, I though Healy, Ferris and O'Brien were immense. Ferris picking Genia up like a bold child was quality!!
All in all it was good win in a pool game for Ireland nothing more, for the Aussies there's no point lamenting bad referring, weather, kiwi conspiracies!! Take what positives you can from it, as many posters have said better to find out these home truths now (bitter as they are), than in the knockouts where you don't get a 2nd chance.
Slowing the ball down, Darcy was embarrassingly obvious standing on the wrong side of the ruck; although Horwill was lazy enough is getting back onside on a number of occasions. Heaslip sticking his paw on the ball in the ruck should have at least resulted in a strong word from the ref or even a yellow.
I understand that the SH style of running is attractive to watch but I think it's a bit unfair to dismiss an impenetrable defence as horrible rugby. As mentioned in another post it wasn't like Ireland kicked every ball aimlessly, when the opportunity arose Ireland did try to run with ball in hand.
The general negative feeling towards Ireland's style of play in the game is a bit strange, what did you expect? They kept things tight and controlled the tempo. "No you’re doing it wrong, throw loose passes so we can use our superior broken field running rugby".
Another issue people have highlighted is the Irish guys going down pretending to be injured. Obviously I'm not naive enough to think it was all legitimate but in fairness, tackling with that intensity for 80 minutes would cause a certain degree of genuine injuries.
On an individual note, I though Healy, Ferris and O'Brien were immense. Ferris picking Genia up like a bold child was quality!!
All in all it was good win in a pool game for Ireland nothing more, for the Aussies there's no point lamenting bad referring, weather, kiwi conspiracies!! Take what positives you can from it, as many posters have said better to find out these home truths now (bitter as they are), than in the knockouts where you don't get a 2nd chance.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
24 Hours on and my second review via fast forward for most of it.
1) Lawrence was generally wrong in the scrums with the Irish bearing down and hinging in most scrums which they duly got the penalty for. I can only re-iterate what I have said previously for two years, Alexander (even thought not truly at fault) has exactly the same issue as Baxter, one of perception. How can he fix what isn't wrong? Well instead of allowing the scrum to collapse drive up and through, if he pops up so be it at least he won't be collapsing. Then approach the ref with the Captain and point out what is happening and the fact he is tacking measures to correct the issue. Just say nicely "i want a contest but don't want you to form the opinion I am taking it down because bugga lugs is hinging."
2)Deans - I will point to four losses over the Deans era which IMO have been the direct result of Scotland, England x 2 Samoa and now Ireland. In there have also been other glaring examples but those four best show the total neglect of preparation of his side. The lack of any game plan apart from shuffle it to the X-Men players and hope they pull some magic. The lack of reasonable and prudent selection based on actual form. The lack of any use of the bench, the lack of any real hard culture. These aspects have all been apparent in every game under Deans' reign to a greater or lesser degree and once or twice a year they all combine to make the perfect cluster F*&%$ of a game for the Wallabies. I great example of Deans meticulous planning actually comes from his application and interview for the ABs job, it has been reported that when asked who his assistants and specialists coaches would be if granted the ABs Head Coach job he had no answer. He was so prepared for this he played what was in front of him and rambled. I ask why is anybody surprised 4 years on the Wallabies are the same when tough questions are asked. I thought it was a great idea when he was appointed as he was without doubt the most successful coach at Super Level, nobody came close. What made me question was after the 2009 EOYT and the 2010 season debacle with the inexplicable loses, I questioned why he wasn't being held to account anywhere. Where were the tough questions and why wasn't he under any pressure, and why were his goal posts continually being moved.
3) Too many want to focus on individual players. I have done so when I felt it was warranted, such as my comments about Giteau and McCalman to name two. However these are examples and can too easily be turned into scape goats who deflect the core reasons why the team continually fails. Do not forget that Sharpe has been the scape goat for the scrum and Vickerman the saviour, is he now the villian? Brown was the backrow problem is it now Samo? This focus on individuals is part of the problem, this is supposed to be a team, but they play like individuals with each individual playing what is in front of them, with Beale a great example of this and probably as good a reason as any as to why he will go for the individualistic chip and re-gather attempts as every turn or try and run a hole himself - he almost never tries to set up a team mate.
I take no pleasure in being vindicated that what I saw happening with the Wallabies under Deans is coming to pass. I hate it. I don't like the Wallabies losing but what grates is the way they don't even show up for so many games.
Well I am totally over it. If the Wallabies do come second in the Pool and do face the Bok in a semi I cannot see how they could win, that would mean their third win in a row after smacking some minnows to get their anger out. Thus would my final prediction of the EOYT 2010 come bitterly true - elimination in the semi's. I want to see Deans sacked or he can resign, I don't care. I also realise that such an occurrence will also result in the likely sacking or resignation of JON. Well so be it, it proves that the shonky back door deals
in resigning both parties before the latest "real" test of their management was taken.
1) Lawrence was generally wrong in the scrums with the Irish bearing down and hinging in most scrums which they duly got the penalty for. I can only re-iterate what I have said previously for two years, Alexander (even thought not truly at fault) has exactly the same issue as Baxter, one of perception. How can he fix what isn't wrong? Well instead of allowing the scrum to collapse drive up and through, if he pops up so be it at least he won't be collapsing. Then approach the ref with the Captain and point out what is happening and the fact he is tacking measures to correct the issue. Just say nicely "i want a contest but don't want you to form the opinion I am taking it down because bugga lugs is hinging."
2)Deans - I will point to four losses over the Deans era which IMO have been the direct result of Scotland, England x 2 Samoa and now Ireland. In there have also been other glaring examples but those four best show the total neglect of preparation of his side. The lack of any game plan apart from shuffle it to the X-Men players and hope they pull some magic. The lack of reasonable and prudent selection based on actual form. The lack of any use of the bench, the lack of any real hard culture. These aspects have all been apparent in every game under Deans' reign to a greater or lesser degree and once or twice a year they all combine to make the perfect cluster F*&%$ of a game for the Wallabies. I great example of Deans meticulous planning actually comes from his application and interview for the ABs job, it has been reported that when asked who his assistants and specialists coaches would be if granted the ABs Head Coach job he had no answer. He was so prepared for this he played what was in front of him and rambled. I ask why is anybody surprised 4 years on the Wallabies are the same when tough questions are asked. I thought it was a great idea when he was appointed as he was without doubt the most successful coach at Super Level, nobody came close. What made me question was after the 2009 EOYT and the 2010 season debacle with the inexplicable loses, I questioned why he wasn't being held to account anywhere. Where were the tough questions and why wasn't he under any pressure, and why were his goal posts continually being moved.
3) Too many want to focus on individual players. I have done so when I felt it was warranted, such as my comments about Giteau and McCalman to name two. However these are examples and can too easily be turned into scape goats who deflect the core reasons why the team continually fails. Do not forget that Sharpe has been the scape goat for the scrum and Vickerman the saviour, is he now the villian? Brown was the backrow problem is it now Samo? This focus on individuals is part of the problem, this is supposed to be a team, but they play like individuals with each individual playing what is in front of them, with Beale a great example of this and probably as good a reason as any as to why he will go for the individualistic chip and re-gather attempts as every turn or try and run a hole himself - he almost never tries to set up a team mate.
I take no pleasure in being vindicated that what I saw happening with the Wallabies under Deans is coming to pass. I hate it. I don't like the Wallabies losing but what grates is the way they don't even show up for so many games.
Well I am totally over it. If the Wallabies do come second in the Pool and do face the Bok in a semi I cannot see how they could win, that would mean their third win in a row after smacking some minnows to get their anger out. Thus would my final prediction of the EOYT 2010 come bitterly true - elimination in the semi's. I want to see Deans sacked or he can resign, I don't care. I also realise that such an occurrence will also result in the likely sacking or resignation of JON. Well so be it, it proves that the shonky back door deals
in resigning both parties before the latest "real" test of their management was taken.
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
Because we lost to Ireland? Ho hum. This forum has died and been replaced by the cast of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. :lmao:
I understand as well as anyone that this was a shit loss, but it isn't the first the Wallabies have dished up. Who was coach in 2007? Who was coach the dozen times before that?
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
This coach (and don't forget his assistants who must also be held to account) have provided more and lower milestones than any two other coaches in Professional Rugby history. If the Wallabies Rugby brand was truly a business the management would have all been sacked for gross under performance and failure to meet targets.
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
So every Irish player played better than Beale, for example?
- Status