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RWC - Wallabies v Ireland - 17th September 2011

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Swat

Chilla Wilson (44)
As opposed to Digby's? He kicks well.

Digby has a much greater ability to beat the man. Not as much of an issue when you can always run it back. Can't remember the last tie I saw McCabe do more than crash ball. If you're going to put someone on the wing at least make it someone with a set off skills to get you out of trouble.
 

Troy

Jim Clark (26)
I would go with A. Lets try and keep this team as stable as possible. Straight swap of Digby for JOC (James O'Connor), with Mitchell coming onto the bench. Keeps our backline stable and solid. I would prefer not to risk Drew against Ireland, wait and see how he performs against USA and the Ruskis.

Agreed - rather start Drew from the bench, last thing we need is to rush him straight into the starting side and he gets injured due to lack of game time.

We're not playing the AB's, England or even the Boks. While Ireland aren't a pushover they're also not in the best of form!
 

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
I would go with JOC (James O'Connor) and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on the wings with Pat McCabe and Ant in the centres. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can defend in Digby's spot and would be great in counter attack.

I am sick of this rubbish about hiding Quade in defence. Quade offers a lot in counter attack as he can spread the ball better than anyone else, has a good kicking game to return kicks and also has the ability to run the ball back. Quade adds so much more than any other player in attack and threw the last pass for three of the the four tries on the weekend. I can see a role for Barnes in the Wallaby squad but the back line offers so much less when he is at 10.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I am sick of this rubbish about hiding Quade in defence. Quade offers a lot in counter attack as he can spread the ball better than anyone else, has a good kicking game to return kicks and also has the ability to run the ball back. Quade adds so much more than any other player in attack and threw the last pass for three of the the four tries on the weekend. I can see a role for Barnes in the Wallaby squad but the back line offers so much less when he is at 10.

I agree.

Are Wallabies fans actually upset that we're winning some games and won the 3N for the first time in a decade? Maybe Greg Growden isn't the only Australian Rugby fan who prefers it when we lose because it gives him more to write about.
 

Bowside

Peter Johnson (47)
I would go with JOC (James O'Connor) and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on the wings with Pat McCabe and Ant in the centres. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can defend in Digby's spot and would be great in counter attack.

I am sick of this rubbish about hiding Quade in defence. Quade offers a lot in counter attack as he can spread the ball better than anyone else, has a good kicking game to return kicks and also has the ability to run the ball back. Quade adds so much more than any other player in attack and threw the last pass for three of the the four tries on the weekend. I can see a role for Barnes in the Wallaby squad but the back line offers so much less when he is at 10.

I wouldn't even say they are hiding him anymore. He's a lot more useful defending from the back and counter attacking than he is in the front line making tackles and being taken out of the next phase.
 
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thedubs

Guest
I'm sorry but when is the last time this crack Irish team has EVER beaten anyone of note away from home? When was the last time this Irish team beat someone ranked higher than them when not playing in the wet of Lansdowne, Croke Park or Aviva stadium? When was the last time they beat any team of note at home even; a full team that is, not a Springbok team resting 7 or 8 regulars? Is it 3 or 4 years maybe?

I never said they have one of the best teams in the world, or put in the best performances. I said they one of the best teams individual wise. Just like how Germany in football have one of the best teams but havent won a competition of value this decade. Just like how the England football team is in the top three countries for having outstanding individuals in its squad - but still struggles in almost any game!

My point was to say they just arent hitting their potential, and its fairly obvious they have potential given the achievements of the team when they do turn up, and the achievements of the players at domestic level.
 
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thedubs

Guest
Well, I'm going to take a contrarian view. The Irish will be smashed. It's not even going to be close. Ireland got owned at the breakdown this past weekend behind a dominant scrum and lineout. The USA are not close to being a good side, but yet Ireland only managed 3 line breaks all game, and 2 offloads against them. Ireland are bare of any confidence and they are not going to suddenly find it against the Wallabies. They cannot put a cohesive back-line move together even with the rare, infrequent quick ball they produce and Kidney has messed about with the 9 and 10 positions for over two season now and still it's unclear who his starters are there.

Front row, ADV Aus; Ireland have a solidly performing unit at scrum time but have no cover. Ross is as mobile as a braised leg of lamb and does absolutely nothing outside of the scrum. He cant even move his feet to be in position to make the tackle.

Locks ADV Aus O’Connell is an excellent lock, a top line out operator but lacks physical impact in contact. He goes to ground too easily. O’Callaghan is rubbish; he hasn’t played well except for the odd game (usually England) for years but Kidney persists with him as he is a “tryer”. His indiscipline is good for at least 3 points if not six Australian points. He places no pressure on the opposition line out, is not a ball carrier, does not hit rucks that hared anymore and is a lousy ball-carrier.

Back-row ADV AusFerris is a stud, a powerful no-nonsense 6 who really clears rucks and does the business with ball in hand and he is ferocious if not entirely accurate in the tackle. For me, he is ireland’s best player if fit. Heaslip has been in poor form and did absolutely nothing against the US. I had to check to see that he was playing. He will not find form against Aus. At 7, with Wallace out, Ireland have to play SOB there but it negates his main strength as a ball carrier, and he is NOT a 7. Pocock will own him or anyone else the Irish plays here. When picked at 7 by Leinster in their HEC (semi and final), it was apparent SOB wasn’t up to it; Leinster were not effective on the ground or at the breakdown until Jennings replaced SOB at 7, and SOB was shifted to 6 where he then had real impact. With SOB at 7, this Irish backrow is imbalanced but they are desperate for ball-carriers and Jennings has proven time and time again that he is not a Test quality No. 7. At 6, Ireland have 2 superb players, but only one can play there. At 7, they have nobody and were reliant on a 35 yr old to compete in the most demanding position on the field, but he got crocked before the plane left Ireland.

9/10 ADV Aus At scrumhalf, the Irish are simply woeful. None of their options is that useful never mind of Test quality and all take an age to clear the ball from the base, and are then frequently inaccurate. Reddan will probably get selected by default as Murray is too inexperienced and was slow and indecisive against the USA. At 10, Sexton has been poor in green. His game management or kicking game is simply not at O’Gara’s level and O’Gara will probably get the nod even though his defense is of Quade Cooper quality (although he does throw his body in there) and he cannot fix the opposition drift as he is never a threat to run. It’s for this reason that the best passer in the Irish game, Stringer, was left at home; you can’t have a 9 and a 10 in the modern game when neither present a running threat to the opposition defense.

Centers EVEN D’Arcy has become a turnstile. The US made plenty of ground running right at D’Arcy and O’Driscoll both of whom are living off reputations, have lost considerable speed and no longer present much of a threat to break the gain line. When D’Arcy can actually hold on to a ball, he doesn’t break the advantage line anymore and he misses tackles now with alarming frequency. McFadden is available but Kidney will not pick him even though D'Arcy's form has been abject. O’Driscoll still runs superbly clever, angled lines but his lack of pace means he is only a threat close to the line, but he is a huge threat. The Irish are so dependant on him that it’s ridiculous. Without him they have no creativity or penetration. O'Driscoll is also a 'lead by example' player and his defense is utterly committed, although he has shown some frailty there in recent times.. It's evident the enormous influence he has on the field

Back three, ADV Aus if Ireland play Kearney at 15 then there goes their running, linking game (whatever is left of it). He is superb under the high ball, has a big match temperament but he has no pace and not much of a pass. Bowe is excellent even if he was crap for much of the game against USA and Earls has yet to do anything to justify the hype the Irish pumped him to some years ago. He is a good open field runner but doesn’t go looking for work and makes poor decisions defensively.

Finally at coach, Kidney is out of his depth. He was never known as a technical coach, but earned a rep as good man manager with Munster. He continues to make the same mistakes for the past couple of years years, and Ireland really have only had one really decent game in those two years. He persists with selecting players that only occasionally produce and frequently disappoint (O’Callaghan, D’Arcy etc.) and he has been the architect of an Irish team that is playing with zero confidence, doesn't know who its 7, 9 or 10 is going to be, and plays with no guile or even trademark tenacity. He is a “Gee, ah shucks” type of coach. The best thing about that Irish side coaching team is the formidable Les Kiss, a good Aussie defensive coach. Gaffney, the attack coach is rubbish.

Ireland are justifiably ranked 8th in the world. They are no sure thing to beat Italy (if they remain healthy) to emerge from the group and then they will then face a quick exit as usual. They haven't the confidence, the belief to win a big game now and when they have won such a game, it has been at home and a once-off. They are a diminishing force. Kidney has taken the Champions of Europe in 4 of the past 6 seasons (Munster, then Leinster) and rendered them impotent. They play with no distinguishing style and Kidney seems unable to pick the personnel they need to play the game they want.

The Wallabies will win this easily. I know this forum trying to be generous to visitors but let's give them the respect they deserve by being honest with them; Ireland have no chance against the Wallabies, because they simply aren't that good, and the Wallabies are much better.

Hit the nail on the head here. Couldnt agree more in parts. However it can be argued the other way in terms of the game itself and how the teams will line up. But just to point out, you're completely right in your assessment of the players, sadly for an Irish fan.

For how the game will turn out in the line ups.

Front rows of both teams I rate as completely even. The first choice front rows of both teams are world class worthy. The drop off from that is outstandingly poor

Locks could be tipped to Ireland. O'Connell was said by Matfield to be the best lock he's ever played against - that was in a conference pre-Ireland South Africa 2010 regarding Ireland beating SA and the Lions tour. Id rate it even as you hit the nail on the head about O'Callaghan.

Backrow - Ireland have the best loose backrow in world rugby. I find it hard to see how you can place aus ahead of them. Pocock is the only world class-on form backrow out of the trio. By that I mean he's the only world class one who is on form, Elsom, is world class but off form, Higginbottam is on form but not world class yet. I find it hard to push aside a backrow where SOB is one of the hot contenders for world player of the year, Heaslip being one of the best technical 8's of the past 3/4 years - only behind Parisse IMO. and Ferris who was talked up by the NZ press for around a week!

Backs - fair enough - cant argue there. Centre's i'd say you have the advantage. BOD is world class, d'arcy is falling off tackles and we need one fast or bulky centre to pentrate. BOD is reasonably fast, but he maintains his place for his vision, superb passing accuracy, breakdown work, and moral contribution. You cant have 2 of this type of player, you need a McCabe thats bulky at 12 or a Kahui thats fast and powerful.

Back three, yep, Aus all the way here.

Half backs - Aus again. Sexton is a calm distributor that isnt being utilised by Kidney very well at all. A lot of Ireland fans are furious about this. Sad as a lot of Southern hemisphere watchers who cant view the HC due to time differences won't see this guys potential as at Leinster, he's given the right to do what he wants and he causes havok for defences. Kidneys tactics are holding back this talent - id describe it as Martin Johnson being Carters personal coach. Talent held back. Nonetheless even at that the combo of Genia + Co. is in full swing and thats what matters.
 
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thedubs

Guest
But Ireland struggled at the breakdown against the USA?

Where were the backrow then?

True, then again Leinsters backrow was one of the most ferocious in the HC this year. In the six nations they beat teams like England off the park at the breakdown. I consider it a rare lapse.
 

Bowside

Peter Johnson (47)
Backrow - Ireland have the best loose backrow in world rugby. I find it hard to see how you can place aus ahead of them. Pocock is the only world class-on form backrow out of the trio. By that I mean he's the only world class one who is on form, Elsom, is world class but off form, Higginbottam is on form but not world class yet. I find it hard to push aside a backrow where SOB is one of the hot contenders for world player of the year, Heaslip being one of the best technical 8's of the past 3/4 years - only behind Parisse IMO. and Ferris who was talked up by the NZ press for around a week!

The irish backrow is good, but they are not better than the kiwi's.
 

Athilnaur

Arch Winning (36)
Elsom is close to his best now and the Irish know better than any what that means, Pocock is Pocock and Samo is ... Samo! My read of the game atm is that the only backrow with an edge over the Wallabies is the AB backrow with Read playing. Perhaps I am guilty of being partisan. We will find out soon enough!
 
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Utility Back

Guest
God all this swiping aside of the Irish gives me a massive pit in my stomach.
I agree we should win but...ugh ease up on the irish dismissal.
 

vidiot

John Solomon (38)
(Self-evidently) any of the top 10 sides can beat the wallabies on their day, esp if the wallabies are complacent, sloppy and/or 'forget' to compete at the break down. It happens again and again.

The all blacks are on their game - at least in the contests - > 90% of the time. Ireland pulled it out against England in the 6N. They could again, and the wallabies could easily slide again. I don't think they will, but Ireland are quite capable of turning up to compete, and the pretty backs on either side are suddenly bit players.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I think we're much better than Ireland, we can beat the All Blacks; the Irish cannot. However I think the game will be very close. You can't play your best for every game, it's just not possible. We're bound to have a poor performance soon.
 

Antony

Alex Ross (28)
Ireland are probably due to fire up. Maybe it all depends on whether they get this speech again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhgt2pnSywI

(The Paul O'Connell bit, not the Wonderwall excerpt at the beginning. Though that might do the trick too. That's a pretty good song.)


The Wallabies should get home though; Ireland have never had to face a proper Quade Cooper.
 

Logorrhea

Stan Wickham (3)
But Ireland struggled at the breakdown against the USA? Where were the backrow then?
Agree with that, but this was more down to Jouberts strange willingness to allow the US do whatever they wanted at the breakdown, the offside line, and the maul. It was pretty chaotic. The funny thing is it didnt really impact on our game, we were woeful regardless of what the Americans did.

Riptide said:
The Irish will be smashed. It's not even going to be close.
Cant argue with you there. You nailed most of it, though you forgot to mention Cian Healy in the Front Row. Him, Sheridan and Barcella are probably the three most effective props in the loose up here. Hes a massive carrier for us. Not a huge force in the scrum but massive around the park.

Back-row, Pocock will own the breakdown but Ireland have been conceeding that area for years now. We will however have Ferris, O'Brien and Heaslip (with Healy) as strike runners. Thats four very effective ball carriers capable of regularly breaking the gainline. Not saying they are better then the aussies but we are stronger in that area then we have ever been.

Riptide said:
The Wallabies will win this easily. I know this forum trying to be generous to visitors but let's give them the respect they deserve by being honest with them; Ireland have no chance against the Wallabies, because they simply aren't that good, and the Wallabies are much better.
Again I agree with this. The thing is, and this is what pisses me off, we are actually capable of putting in a performance. The match against England in the last 6 nations was quite familiar to the majority of the fans in the Aviva on that day. It wasnt a fluke.

We had been seeing it week in week out when those players togged out in leinster blue. I'm talking about the syle, the ambition and the exectution. Leinster do it all the time, against the best teams in Europe. Ireland dont even try. Thats what hacks me off so much.

Still .............. maybe this Saturday will be one of those days. Maybe we'll put in the 1-in-10 performance and blow you guys away.

I doubt it though.
 
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thedubs

Guest
Agree with that, but this was more down to Jouberts strange willingness to allow the US do whatever they wanted at the breakdown, the offside line, and the maul. It was pretty chaotic. The funny thing is it didnt really impact on our game, we were woeful regardless of what the Americans did.


Cant argue with you there. You nailed most of it, though you forgot to mention Cian Healy in the Front Row. Him, Sheridan and Barcella are probably the three most effective props in the loose up here. Hes a massive carrier for us. Not a huge force in the scrum but massive around the park.

Back-row, Pocock will own the breakdown but Ireland have been conceeding that area for years now. We will however have Ferris, O'Brien and Heaslip (with Healy) as strike runners. Thats four very effective ball carriers capable of regularly breaking the gainline. Not saying they are better then the aussies but we are stronger in that area then we have ever been.


Again I agree with this. The thing is, and this is what pisses me off, we are actually capable of putting in a performance. The match against England in the last 6 nations was quite familiar to the majority of the fans in the Aviva on that day. It wasnt a fluke.

We had been seeing it week in week out when those players togged out in leinster blue. I'm talking about the syle, the ambition and the exectution. Leinster do it all the time, against the best teams in Europe. Ireland dont even try. Thats what hacks me off so much.

Still .............. maybe this Saturday will be one of those days. Maybe we'll put in the 1-in-10 performance and blow you guys away.

I doubt it though.

Hacks me off too. Leinster would do a much better job than Ireland. We get G. Murphy, Leicesters captain! in for Nacewa. We only get, sigh, O;Connell, the fking Lions captain in for Hines.

Its not the players fault, a lot of them look 'Eddie O'Sullivan' frustrated. Sexton said in an interview, when Schmitd came to Leinster, he just told Sexton - "Do what you want" or "do what you need". Giving Sexton the freedom to create his own manouevers and effectively be the creative coach for the Leinster backs. What happens? Leinster getting winning bonus points against the English champions Saracens and the second best team in france, Racing, Both home and away.

The Sexton of Ireland and the Sexton of Leinster are completely different. And it isnt the 'international step up' Because I firmly believe a Toulouse outfit or a Clermont outfit or a Sarries outfit plays with clinicalness and intensity that is much better than the standard I see in the Six nations. I find performing in the Knockout stages of the HC better than the 6N.

I hope the backs coaches at Ireland are changed over, not that they're bad necesserily, new tactics are just needed.

Sorry for hijacking the thread Aussies! Just its really winding up us Irish fans currently. You might compare it to your period between 2007-2009. We appear to be hitting a stale patch even though we have the best players around in the IRFU's history.
 

Logorrhea

Stan Wickham (3)
I hope the backs coaches at Ireland are changed over, not that they're bad necesserily, new tactics are just needed.
Alan f*ckin Gaffney. Hes heading to the Tahs after the world cup.

Simply the best new Irish rugby has had in a long time.
 
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