RWC: USA v RSA (Olympic Stadium): POOL B

[mxyzptlk]

How is it a contest for the ball when one player doesn't jump at all?

Jared Payne was red carded for the same thing at Ulster.

 

[USARugger]

Jared Payne was red carded for the same thing at Ulster.

Yep, remember that one actually. The entire clattering into the legs while "looking" at the ball shit is how I hurt my back so I really hate to see it happening at all.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Yep, remember that one actually. The entire clattering into the legs while "looking" at the ball shit is how I hurt my back so I really hate to see it happening at all.

Didn't meant to like that comment. Not liking your hurt back, just agreeing that it's a bad tactic.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I had a feeling this might be a thrashing so although taped match overnight fast forwarded through the match as just did not look a good spectacle.

US Eagles been pretty disappointing....as they have improved in 7's but not it seems in 15 a side game....

US represents a big potential market for rugby and have heard mentioned plans to establish a comp there? Is this true? As not in touch with plans to tap in better to US market but got to be plans to do so as economically makes sense....

 

[mxyzptlk]

I had a feeling this might be a thrashing so although taped match overnight fast forwarded through the match as just did not look a good spectacle.

US Eagles been pretty disappointing..as they have improved in 7's but not it seems in 15 a side game..

US represents a big potential market for rugby and have heard mentioned plans to establish a comp there? Is this true? As not in touch with plans to tap in better to US market but got to be plans to do so as economically makes sense..

The big difference between the 7s side and the 15s is a professional coach. The 7s side were intermittently good, and then they spent a season with a player-coach, which was a bit of a disaster. Then they got in Mike Friday from England; he's played for Wasps and Harlequins, coached the England 7s and Kenya 7s, and until this past May he was splitting time with London Scottish. But even when he was splitting time, he's made an incredible difference, and will be there through the Olympics. The USA won the final leg of the Sevens World Series, the London tournament, and the did so by scoring more points than any other tournament-winning side of the series.

The USA 15s coach, Mike Tolkin, has coached high school and a club team for the New York Athletic Club. He went from that to the USA coaching set-up. He and Friday are worlds apart.

There has been talk of setting up some kind of competition. We have some great athletes, and there was a combine held here last year for rugby players and other athletes (mainly gridiron players) who wanted to see if they could make a go at a pro rugby in Europe. A few people from the combine were brought into some Premiership set-ups, but I couldn't tell you who right now. Thretton Palamo was at Saracens for a year and is now at London Welsh. Captain Chris Wyles is at Saracens along with lock Hayden Smith and 20-year-old prop Lamositele. Another prop, Eric Fry, is at Newcastle, and wing Blaine Scully was at Leicester for a long time, and is going to Cardiff this year. Two of their other locks, Cam Dolan and Greg Peterson, are at Cardiff and Glasgow. Tak Ngwenya has been at Biarritz for 8 years, and Samu Manoa just left Northampton for Toulon and one of the most lucrative contracts for a forward in Europe.

The rest of the team plays for various clubs in the U.S., play 7s, or are in lower division European competitions, and many of them aren't full-time pros. Like the scrum half, Mike Petri; he played with Sale and Newport Gwent Dragons for a couple years, but currently teaches high school science and math classes at the same high school Mike Tolkin coached.

Point is, the USA can produce some solid rugby players. But without the right coaching and without a competition for them to get some real professional development and make rugby their livelihood, their growth will be slow. If, however, the 7s team does well in the Olympics (men's and women's), that'll light a fire under some asses. America loves to get behind winners.

There have been some stunted attempts at setting up a competition. The Premiership is looking at doing something in the States, and even partnering with the NFL (and that could be interesting, NFL-sponsored rugby teams during the off-season). But the last time I checked into what was happening, a competition was scrapped because it was trying to work outside the boundaries of USA Rugby, and couldn't get the right licensing or something. They even had some games scheduled against Premiership sides last year, but that's been shelved.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a joint USA-Canadian side eventually enter the Super Rugby competition. The Premiership may have more money, but they tend to play a stodgier, take-it-to-contact style of game, while Super Rugby tends to look more for space and gaps. Given the kind of athletes we tend to produce, I think Super Rugby would be a better fit, and would be better for our own international development. A good portion of the rugby played in the U.S. is played on the west coast anyway. Fijian 7s legend Waisale Serevi has set up an academy in Seattle, and he's been working with local gridiron teams to introduce them to rugby principles, and just spreading rugby. He's even worked with the Seattle Seahawks.

But I'm just a fan from the States; there was no rugby where I grew up, so I never got to play. There are a few others on here who've played in the USA, and probably have more informed opinions on the matter.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

The big difference between the 7s side and the 15s is a professional coach. The 7s side were intermittently good, and then they spent a season with a player-coach, which was a bit of a disaster. Then they got in Mike Friday from England; he's played for Wasps and Harlequins, coached the England 7s and Kenya 7s, and until this past May he was splitting time with London Scottish. But even when he was splitting time, he's made an incredible difference, and will be there through the Olympics. The USA won the final leg of the Sevens World Series, the London tournament, and the did so by scoring more points than any other tournament-winning side of the series.

The USA 15s coach, Mike Tolkin, has coached high school and a club team for the New York Athletic Club. He went from that to the USA coaching set-up. He and Friday are worlds apart.

There has been talk of setting up some kind of competition. We have some great athletes, and there was a combine held here last year for rugby players and other athletes (mainly gridiron players) who wanted to see if they could make a go at a pro rugby in Europe. A few people from the combine were brought into some Premiership set-ups, but I couldn't tell you who right now. Thretton Palamo was at Saracens for a year and is now at London Welsh. Captain Chris Wyles is at Saracens along with lock Hayden Smith and 20-year-old prop Lamositele. Another prop, Eric Fry, is at Newcastle, and wing Blaine Scully was at Leicester for a long time, and is going to Cardiff this year. Two of their other locks, Cam Dolan and Greg Peterson, are at Cardiff and Glasgow. Tak Ngwenya has been at Biarritz for 8 years, and Samu Manoa just left Northampton for Toulon and one of the most lucrative contracts for a forward in Europe.

The rest of the team plays for various clubs in the U.S., play 7s, or are in lower division European competitions, and many of them aren't full-time pros. Like the scrum half, Mike Petri; he played with Sale and Newport Gwent Dragons for a couple years, but currently teaches high school science and math classes at the same high school Mike Tolkin coached.

Point is, the USA can produce some solid rugby players. But without the right coaching and without a competition for them to get some real professional development and make rugby their livelihood, their growth will be slow. If, however, the 7s team does well in the Olympics (men's and women's), that'll light a fire under some asses. America loves to get behind winners.

There have been some stunted attempts at setting up a competition. The Premiership is looking at doing something in the States, and even partnering with the NFL (and that could be interesting, NFL-sponsored rugby teams during the off-season). But the last time I checked into what was happening, a competition was scrapped because it was trying to work outside the boundaries of USA Rugby, and couldn't get the right licensing or something. They even had some games scheduled against Premiership sides last year, but that's been shelved.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a joint USA-Canadian side eventually enter the Super Rugby competition. The Premiership may have more money, but they tend to play a stodgier, take-it-to-contact style of game, while Super Rugby tends to look more for space and gaps. Given the kind of athletes we tend to produce, I think Super Rugby would be a better fit, and would be better for our own international development. A good portion of the rugby played in the U.S. is played on the west coast anyway. Fijian 7s legend Waisale Serevi has set up an academy in Seattle, and he's been working with local gridiron teams to introduce them to rugby principles, and just spreading rugby. He's even worked with the Seattle Seahawks.

But I'm just a fan from the States; there was no rugby where I grew up, so I never got to play. There are a few others on here who've played in the USA, and probably have more informed opinions on the matter.

Thanks - informative post

Key is need to stop the talk and somehow make it happen..but I guess baby steps has been to include US in Pacific nations cup...need to probably do something at next level down perhaps - which is either a team joining Premiership or Super Rugby in years to come.....with plans to grow that further....I don't really have the answers but US market seems to have room for Rugby if can make successful side (yes yanks like to back winners) and economics of growth plans for rugby in US makes lot of sense...

NFL backing in off season makes some sense for cross code support as fans of NFL could be won over as fans for rugby.....

Exposure to more professional setups via access to Premiership in UK or Super rugby down the track makes sense......

 

[No4918]

Saw some of the first half and was feeling optimistic about the Eagles. Only disappointment was the inability to use good ball. Didn't see the second half to see what changed.

They have some good good players and just need the experience and coaching.

 

[Mank]

How is it a contest for the ball when one player doesn't jump at all?

He did jump. And his eyes never left the ball. It's a collision sport, these things will happen. I got a knee to the head and a broken collar bone from an oncoming player out-jumping me. I went to hospital, waited 4 months, then played again. I didn't whinge on an internet forum.

 

[I like to watch]

I had a feeling this might be a thrashing so although taped match overnight fast forwarded through the match as just did not look a good spectacle.

US Eagles been pretty disappointing..as they have improved in 7's but not it seems in 15 a side game..

US represents a big potential market for rugby and have heard mentioned plans to establish a comp there? Is this true? As not in touch with plans to tap in better to US market but got to be plans to do so as economically makes sense..

They were right in their first game of the tournament.
A combination of incompetence from the ref,and their woeful line out cost them a win.
That seems to have been their best performance unfortunately.

 

[USARugger]

He did jump. And his eyes never left the ball. It's a collision sport, these things will happen. I got a knee to the head and a broken collar bone from an oncoming player out-jumping me. I went to hospital, waited 4 months, then played again. I didn't whinge on an internet forum.

I hope I can grow up to be a tough boet like you one day!

I also hope I'm blessed with better eyesight - Habana has a foot on the ground until he gets knocked off his feet by the contact. He's done this multiple times this year. Having your eyes on the ball doesn't mean much when you're not actually planning on competing for it.

At best, it's remarkably poor technique that recklessly endangers the other jumper.. who will always flip forwards when the other player is running directly into his legs.

 

[Dewald Nel]

One match at a time - all that matters now, is the quarter final, and we don't even know who we're playing yet.

This is gonna be a looooong 10 days.

 

[PaarlBok]

I hope I can grow up to be a tough boet like you one day!

I also hope I'm blessed with better eyesight - Habana has a foot on the ground until he gets knocked off his feet by the contact. He's done this multiple times this year. Having your eyes on the ball doesn't mean much when you're not actually planning on competing for it.

At best, it's remarkably poor technique that recklessly endangers the other jumper.. who will always flip forwards when the other player is running directly into his legs.

Yu serious need to get a grip. Habana clearly went for the ball, thats what you do when you play rugby, eye on the ball.

 

[PaarlBok]

One match at a time - all that matters now, is the quarter final, and we don't even know who we're playing yet.

This is gonna be a looooong 10 days.

Doesnt really matters from now on. Wont mind if we get the Wallabies next.

 

[Dewald Nel]

Doesnt really matters from now on. Wont mind if we get the Wallabies next.

Indeed. We should be able to beat anyone we face. I don't think we'll find Wales any easier anyway. And we'll be favorites against neither.

 

[Dewald Nel]

Some Daily Mail allegations of biting vs. Frans Malherbe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...tch-Frans-Malherbe-biting-Matt-Trouville.html

Mmmmm... no video though. If they think that's any proof of biting, they're smoking something we've never even heard of. The USA player's shoulder making contact with Malherbe's mouth in a ruck doesn't mean jack - then there might as well be a hundred biting allegations per match.

The English are bored again because their team is already out I guess.

Obviously not saying it didn't happen, but if the above is all they're going on, they've got nothing.

 

[Blue]

Haha that does look like bite but I think it's a badly / well timed photo. No video, no citing, and the Yank doesn't recall it.

Nom nom.

 

[Dewald Nel]

Haha that does look like bite but I think it's a badly / well timed photo. No video, no citing, and the Yank doesn't recall it.

Nom nom.

Yeah - nothing but English sensationalism. Big ups to Trouville not making something about it and being honest though - I can see some soccer players doing the opposite.

 

[ChargerWA]

I think this cup is a cycle too early for the Bokke. You look at their developing backline with de Allende, Kriel and Pollard. They should be a real threat at the next one. Just need to find a good Scrumhalf and Hooker to develop.

 

[Dewald Nel]

I think this cup is a cycle too early for the Bokke. You look at their developing backline with de Allende, Kriel and Pollard. They should be a real threat at the next one. Just need to find a good Scrumhalf and Hooker to develop.

Noted.

 

[PaarlBok]

Frans is a Boishaaier, they love blue jerseys.