Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
15 minutes into the first half?
Rugby - not set pieces
- Thread starter Lee Grant
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15 minutes into the first half?
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
That was pretty easy LG, we at G&GR want to be really stretched!
There was also a note earlier about a player who scored a try by slipping off a tackle but maybe it was a translation error from Africaans.
M
Maroon Army
Guest
In the under 20 World Cup, Italy were just denied a try at the end of their match against Canada because the ref penalised Italy for a double movement. WTF?
Nusadan
Chilla Wilson (44)
You mean Churchill Cup in England?
rugbysmartarse
Alan Cameron (40)
The phrase double movement is a weird cross over from league. In union of course you are allowed to place the ball so if you are tackled short but if can reach and place the ball over the line that's ok. The way I see it though some players try to get up, or onto a knee in order to reach the line, which is a penalty offense.
Having said that, I didn't see the game so can't say for sure what the ref did was right/wrong, but perhaps he should use a better phrase
Having said that, I didn't see the game so can't say for sure what the ref did was right/wrong, but perhaps he should use a better phrase
M
Maroon Army
Guest
Yeah you're right my mistake. It was the Churchill Cup.
M
Maroon Army
Guest
The ref made the double movement motion after he blew the wistle. The commentators actually called it a double movement aswell.
It was bizzare.
Rob42
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Do you mean the ref made that "place the ball, then move it forward" motion with his hands? What is the appropriate signal in that circumstance?
M
Maroon Army
Guest
I guess he did and I'm not sure what the appropriate signal is.
If I find a clip I'll post it.
If I find a clip I'll post it.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
What some folks don't realise is that some tries given in this situation are incorrectly given.
A tackled player is allowed to place the ball for a try but he is not allowed to push the ball along the ground to the line, or the base of the posts. If he has momentum he can slide the ball in with him without pushing it forward - or it's OK if the momentum of a driving team mate, legally applied, drives him and the ball forward.
There was a case last year or the year before in Super Rugby where the ref asked the TMO about the grounding. The ball had been pushed forward and an experienced referee TMO would have told the ref what had happened but he was a newby, IIRR, and was in agony over the wording of the question. The ref didn't ask: "Is there any reason ..", nor did he ask: "Try or no try?"
Apparently it was not in the protocol of the time, to say the guy cheated and pushed the ball forward, the bastard. So the TMO waffled and said the player "promoted the ball to the line" or some such and the ref asked him again and got the same answer. So he said: "It's a try then," and gave it.
Anyone else remember that? Was B.Lawrence the ref?
A tackled player is allowed to place the ball for a try but he is not allowed to push the ball along the ground to the line, or the base of the posts. If he has momentum he can slide the ball in with him without pushing it forward - or it's OK if the momentum of a driving team mate, legally applied, drives him and the ball forward.
There was a case last year or the year before in Super Rugby where the ref asked the TMO about the grounding. The ball had been pushed forward and an experienced referee TMO would have told the ref what had happened but he was a newby, IIRR, and was in agony over the wording of the question. The ref didn't ask: "Is there any reason ..", nor did he ask: "Try or no try?"
Apparently it was not in the protocol of the time, to say the guy cheated and pushed the ball forward, the bastard. So the TMO waffled and said the player "promoted the ball to the line" or some such and the ref asked him again and got the same answer. So he said: "It's a try then," and gave it.
Anyone else remember that? Was B.Lawrence the ref?
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Commentators
• Rod Kafer reported on air about a chat he had with ref Chris Pollock before the 2nd half of Rebels v. Stormers. It went something like this:
- Kafer: “What happened in that first scrum?” (There was no engage call)
- Pollock: ”I completely forgot it. How else have I've been going?”
- Kafer: “Pretty good mate; keep it going.”
To which Phil Kearns responded: “You're such a crawler.”
Indeed, there seemed to be a long pause. Good to hear of a ref admitting to making a boo-boo.
• 10. Ben Seymour banana kicks for the line in the Manly v Sydney University match.
- Brett Papworth: “There's a banana, that's an excellent one.”
- Steve Robilliard: “There's been a bunch of them.”
• Same game: Referee James Leckie stops the clock with 3 minutes to go. There has to be a scrum and a player he thinks to be replacement hooker, Elvis Taione, is crouching down and being attended to by a trainer. Leckie walks over to see how long it's going to take then realises it is actually centre Lui Siale who is crocked.
- James Leckie: “Sorry, I thought you were Elvis”
- Steve Robilliard: “It must have been an Elvis impersonator.”
• In mixed company Matt Pearce couldn't say what he said in the Cheetahs v Sharks game about Connie Oosthuizen: “Nice little offload between the legs. Perfectly natural for a loose head.” Could have sounded worse, I suppose. Just as well he wasn't a tight head – or from another point of view, a hooker.
• Simon Mannix in the Toulouse v Montpellier Top14 Final, after Toulouse had trouble getting on the scoreboard in the first quarter: “They're dominating in just about every area. I'm going to repeat it again that this is the same scenario as we saw last week in Marseilles … here we go again.” Some nice repetitive tautology duplicated there Simon.
• Jonah Lomu, same game, on a fight that broke out just before oranges. “Those fights in French rugby : it's like those pantomimes in England.... 'He's behind you !' The only danger is ever going to come from a smack behind you in France, isn't it?”
Peter FitzSimons would probably agree about the French style of fisticuffs. When he was playing he kept trying to promote a nickname for himself: “Hammer”, but that idea got knocked on the head when he was king hit from behind by Phillipe Sella in Sydney and went down like a sack of spuds.
Quotes
• Home captain Jamie McIntosh after the the Highlanders v Force match. “We had a few pretty shitty kicks and we just got stuck in our half and they counter-attacked well”. Indeed, they were poo playing into the wind in the last quarter whereas the Force enjoyed some smooth movements.
.
• Rod Kafer reported on air about a chat he had with ref Chris Pollock before the 2nd half of Rebels v. Stormers. It went something like this:
- Kafer: “What happened in that first scrum?” (There was no engage call)
- Pollock: ”I completely forgot it. How else have I've been going?”
- Kafer: “Pretty good mate; keep it going.”
To which Phil Kearns responded: “You're such a crawler.”
Indeed, there seemed to be a long pause. Good to hear of a ref admitting to making a boo-boo.
• 10. Ben Seymour banana kicks for the line in the Manly v Sydney University match.
- Brett Papworth: “There's a banana, that's an excellent one.”
- Steve Robilliard: “There's been a bunch of them.”
• Same game: Referee James Leckie stops the clock with 3 minutes to go. There has to be a scrum and a player he thinks to be replacement hooker, Elvis Taione, is crouching down and being attended to by a trainer. Leckie walks over to see how long it's going to take then realises it is actually centre Lui Siale who is crocked.
- James Leckie: “Sorry, I thought you were Elvis”
- Steve Robilliard: “It must have been an Elvis impersonator.”
• In mixed company Matt Pearce couldn't say what he said in the Cheetahs v Sharks game about Connie Oosthuizen: “Nice little offload between the legs. Perfectly natural for a loose head.” Could have sounded worse, I suppose. Just as well he wasn't a tight head – or from another point of view, a hooker.
• Simon Mannix in the Toulouse v Montpellier Top14 Final, after Toulouse had trouble getting on the scoreboard in the first quarter: “They're dominating in just about every area. I'm going to repeat it again that this is the same scenario as we saw last week in Marseilles … here we go again.” Some nice repetitive tautology duplicated there Simon.
• Jonah Lomu, same game, on a fight that broke out just before oranges. “Those fights in French rugby : it's like those pantomimes in England.... 'He's behind you !' The only danger is ever going to come from a smack behind you in France, isn't it?”
Peter FitzSimons would probably agree about the French style of fisticuffs. When he was playing he kept trying to promote a nickname for himself: “Hammer”, but that idea got knocked on the head when he was king hit from behind by Phillipe Sella in Sydney and went down like a sack of spuds.
Quotes
• Home captain Jamie McIntosh after the the Highlanders v Force match. “We had a few pretty shitty kicks and we just got stuck in our half and they counter-attacked well”. Indeed, they were poo playing into the wind in the last quarter whereas the Force enjoyed some smooth movements.
.
mark_s
Chilla Wilson (44)
We have this same debate all the time. We keep coming back to the principle that your are allowedto do one thing with theball when tackled (pass, place or promote - ie score a try) You must do atleast one but can only do one once your Momentum stops. Double movement is a simple way of describing the penalty even though it's not strictly accurate.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
BARBARIANS
Wales 28 Baas 31
• Willie Mason had a better stint from the bench than playing for the Barbarians v. England last weekend. True, when he ran into contact the first time he was too high again, but he made up for it with a couple of SBW offloads, one which led to a try by Bastareaud. It was good to see 10. Brock James playing international rugby of a type. He had one shocking penalty kick for touch which went over the dead ball line but apart from that played well, and he intercepted a pass which led to a try.
It was just a Wales A side, in effect, but they were disappointing. One of their best forwards was 8. Toby Faletau, born in Tonga but is Wales qualified having arrived there with his family at age 7. Like Ita Vaea of the Brumbies, he plays above his weight, which is 108 kgs., and he would have a step or two on Ita, He's been a revelation at the Dragons this season and made the Wales 6N squad but didn't play.
Gareth Delve still has a reasonable chance to play in the RWC even though he opted to play here, but if he doesn't, the proximity of 20 y.o. Toby to the selection panel could explain why.
Argentina 23 French Barbarians 19
• The Pumas mixed several inexperienced players into their team and the Baas had a mixture also: mostly French qualified players not involved in the Top14 final the same weekend and including some likely RWC standbys: Bousses, Andreu, Beauxis and Dupuy. It was a rollicking first half but the players faded a bit after oranges and the reserves coming on didn't help.
• Old stager 12. Contepomi got the Pumas home, though it got hairy after his conversion attempt of his own try got charged down by Baas reserve scrummie Cibray. The Pumas were only 1 point ahead , then 4, and the Bass finished parked on the Pumas line at the bell but couldn't get through.
• Puma 3, Bustos, who I had never heard of before looks like a goer and 2. Creevy, Ledesma's backup at Clermont played well and could find himself doing the same job in the RWC. SF backrower Leguizamón played his best game of an unhappy season and could be back in the mix. 8 Seantore has a cracking game and could be on the plane to NZ to shadow Lobbe.
• Trivia – they didn't pick the Baas pack for their weight. Their starting forwards weighed in at only 826 kgs. Sometimes size does matter and it showed in the scrums too.
Wales 28 Baas 31
• Willie Mason had a better stint from the bench than playing for the Barbarians v. England last weekend. True, when he ran into contact the first time he was too high again, but he made up for it with a couple of SBW offloads, one which led to a try by Bastareaud. It was good to see 10. Brock James playing international rugby of a type. He had one shocking penalty kick for touch which went over the dead ball line but apart from that played well, and he intercepted a pass which led to a try.
It was just a Wales A side, in effect, but they were disappointing. One of their best forwards was 8. Toby Faletau, born in Tonga but is Wales qualified having arrived there with his family at age 7. Like Ita Vaea of the Brumbies, he plays above his weight, which is 108 kgs., and he would have a step or two on Ita, He's been a revelation at the Dragons this season and made the Wales 6N squad but didn't play.
Gareth Delve still has a reasonable chance to play in the RWC even though he opted to play here, but if he doesn't, the proximity of 20 y.o. Toby to the selection panel could explain why.
Argentina 23 French Barbarians 19
• The Pumas mixed several inexperienced players into their team and the Baas had a mixture also: mostly French qualified players not involved in the Top14 final the same weekend and including some likely RWC standbys: Bousses, Andreu, Beauxis and Dupuy. It was a rollicking first half but the players faded a bit after oranges and the reserves coming on didn't help.
• Old stager 12. Contepomi got the Pumas home, though it got hairy after his conversion attempt of his own try got charged down by Baas reserve scrummie Cibray. The Pumas were only 1 point ahead , then 4, and the Bass finished parked on the Pumas line at the bell but couldn't get through.
• Puma 3, Bustos, who I had never heard of before looks like a goer and 2. Creevy, Ledesma's backup at Clermont played well and could find himself doing the same job in the RWC. SF backrower Leguizamón played his best game of an unhappy season and could be back in the mix. 8 Seantore has a cracking game and could be on the plane to NZ to shadow Lobbe.
• Trivia – they didn't pick the Baas pack for their weight. Their starting forwards weighed in at only 826 kgs. Sometimes size does matter and it showed in the scrums too.
Torn Hammy
Johnnie Wallace (23)
The FoxSports commentator who described Digby Ioane as "involuntary planking' after Vaea's hit must get points for being topical.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Referees
• Cheetahs v Sharks - The first scrum is at 3 minutes and the Sharks LHP John Smit puts his hand down briefly and is pinged. 5 minutes later referee Marius Jonker orders another scrum and goes to check the other side of it this time. You guessed it: Smit had his hand down again, but the Cheetahs got pinged for something done where Jonker was. Anybody else notice the humorous “Whew - I got away with that” grimace of Smit to a team mate?
Most refs have no clue. One of the best scrum referee on the planet is Romain Poite; not that he has any clue either. He just throws his arm up on the vibe of it and often, first time. This means that he gets it right about 50% of the time like anybody else – but why he is the best in my eyes is that he wastes less time over it.
Laws
• Talking of scrums: it was a big ask for Paddy Ryan, a THP, to replace LHP Fat Cat in the Bulls v. Tahs game, but his subsequent injury raised the issue of uncontested scrums again. As I have mentioned before: the French got dispensation to trial the use of an extra prop a few years ago for the Top14 and it was such a success that the Magners League and Avira Premiership use the system now too.
This means that there is a matchday 23, not 22, and that the props don't have to work so many minutes in a typical game. The sooner SANZAR start using the system, the better, and if so, the IRB should change it for test matches also. Sure, this won't benefit Oz teams at any level, but that's the way I see it as a rugby lover.
And by the way: was not Ulugia suitably trained to play prop?
Magners League
• This is no more. The new title sponsor of the Celtic League, which is a tournament of 12 clubs from Ireland, Scotland and Wales, will be RaboDirect, a Dutch online banker. The tournament will go by the unlovely name of RaboDirect PRO12 for the next 4 years. Doesn't quite have the same ring to it does it?
Stats
• Who is ahead in the Super Rugby captain questions to referees count? Schalk Burger would be right up there but would lose points for not listening to replies and talking over them instead. But Richie McCaw would be a chance for the highest count in any one game for his recent Brisbane effort. Relentless.
.
• Cheetahs v Sharks - The first scrum is at 3 minutes and the Sharks LHP John Smit puts his hand down briefly and is pinged. 5 minutes later referee Marius Jonker orders another scrum and goes to check the other side of it this time. You guessed it: Smit had his hand down again, but the Cheetahs got pinged for something done where Jonker was. Anybody else notice the humorous “Whew - I got away with that” grimace of Smit to a team mate?
Most refs have no clue. One of the best scrum referee on the planet is Romain Poite; not that he has any clue either. He just throws his arm up on the vibe of it and often, first time. This means that he gets it right about 50% of the time like anybody else – but why he is the best in my eyes is that he wastes less time over it.
Laws
• Talking of scrums: it was a big ask for Paddy Ryan, a THP, to replace LHP Fat Cat in the Bulls v. Tahs game, but his subsequent injury raised the issue of uncontested scrums again. As I have mentioned before: the French got dispensation to trial the use of an extra prop a few years ago for the Top14 and it was such a success that the Magners League and Avira Premiership use the system now too.
This means that there is a matchday 23, not 22, and that the props don't have to work so many minutes in a typical game. The sooner SANZAR start using the system, the better, and if so, the IRB should change it for test matches also. Sure, this won't benefit Oz teams at any level, but that's the way I see it as a rugby lover.
And by the way: was not Ulugia suitably trained to play prop?
Magners League
• This is no more. The new title sponsor of the Celtic League, which is a tournament of 12 clubs from Ireland, Scotland and Wales, will be RaboDirect, a Dutch online banker. The tournament will go by the unlovely name of RaboDirect PRO12 for the next 4 years. Doesn't quite have the same ring to it does it?
Stats
• Who is ahead in the Super Rugby captain questions to referees count? Schalk Burger would be right up there but would lose points for not listening to replies and talking over them instead. But Richie McCaw would be a chance for the highest count in any one game for his recent Brisbane effort. Relentless.
.
DPK
Peter Sullivan (51)
Target market, probably. Rich old dudes with pay TV.
Brumbies Guy
John Solomon (38)
Sponsor the foxsports fantasy league too I think
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