Rugby League players who could have/could make the switch

[Hugh Jarse]

This from @tigerland12, previously posted in the "Benji Marshall in Rugby" Thread.

Don't know where this fits, but seeing this is a league-union convert thread, Sam Burgess is going to try and make the England 2015 WC union team.

With allegedly 2 million plus senior male rugby players in England, one would think that there was enough talent within the ranks of existing players to produce several quality England Rugby teams without needing to draw players from the dark side.

 

[oztimmay]

This from @tigerland12, previously posted in the Benji Marshall in Rugby Thread.



With allegedly 2 million plus senior male rugby players in England, one would think that there was enough talent within the ranks of existing players to produce several quality England Rugby teams without needing to draw players from the dark side.

Yea saw this on the news this morning. Trying to work out a position for him. Probably back row, but aren't the poms flush for options in the loose? Reckon big Russell (or James) might throw. Few extra money bags his way and keep him in league.

 

[oztimmay]

Also, if you read this article you now have fifitia in the equation to sign with Souths if Sam goes home.
http://mobile.news.com.au/national/...er-to-play-union/story-e6frfkp9-1226815629949

 

[Train Without a Station]

You have to imagine he would be an option at 8 realistically. Can't help but think that between Billy Vunipola, Ben Morgan, Thomas Waldrom and Nick Easter who may be a bit long in the tooth, they've got enough options to no need to throw big money at players who play there.

It he was a 10 or maybe a 12 I could see it making a lot more sense for them.

 

[tigerland12]

Apart from Vuniopola, none of those other players are that impressive.

Burgess as a 6/8 would be pretty interesting.

 

[Train Without a Station]

They may not be Kieran Read, but improving a position that is not a weakness is not going to improve the English team too much is more so what I'm getting at.

 

[TOCC]

I've done some work with the Burgess brother, Sam's two younger brothers George and Tom have incredible physiques 6'4'' and 120kg at only 21years old is a daunting prospect. Physically more imposing then their elder brother Sam, but lacking the natural playing ability that he has.

 

[I like to watch]

They have plenty of improvement in them.

 

[Redsfan]

The Daily Mail in England (apparently a reputable source on rugby matters) are reporting that Burgess is a done deal.

 

[JSRF10]

The Daily Mail in England (apparently a reputable source on rugby matters) are reporting that Burgess is a done deal.

I don't think the Daily Heil and reputable should ever be in the same sentence unless before reputable there is a negative adverb

 

[wamberal]

Assuming that he finishes this season in the NRL, I cannot see him being ready for the 2015 RWC.

The Daily Terrorgraph are running the story.


The chatter is that he is going to be fast-tracked as a 12. That would be the only chance that he could make the squad, unless he is a very fast learner.


Now, let's see. England play the Wobbs with Burgess as 12. Do we all still believe that Folau is best at full-back?

 

[JSRF10]

The chatter is that he is going to be fast-tracked as a 12. That would be the only chance that he could make the squad, unless he is a very fast learner.

England did the same with Andy Farrell before the World Cup in 2007, he was shockingly bad, Burgess would be better seeing out his contract and going back with a view to making the 2017 Lions and 2019 World Cup if he is interested in Union. Having never played the game playing in a crucial position like 12 would be too much to ask in one year. SBW was pretty awful for his first couple of years in rugby and if he was fast tracked into international rugby after a year it would have been easy pickings for the opposition.

The only position that it could be done in a year is winger and fullback at a push, Folau is a freak in this regard I guess.

 

[RugbyReg]

its being talked about 'as confirmed' here now. Apparently signed as a centre? To be fair I don't know if I've ever seen him play, I don't think I have.

Could he cut it as a centre?

 

[JSRF10]

Could he cut it as a centre?

He'd have to re invent his ball carrying style, learn new defensive systems, develop a distributing and kicking game and learn the ins and out of the ruck. He has a lot of the raw athletic skills required but its doubtful he'd be make a passable international 12 in the 12 months he has to master all of the above

 

[Ado Tornado]

Have to agree it would be a struggle. It took SBW a couple of years to nail the spot. I remember he looked very ordinary against Gits in that Baa Baa's game a few years back. I would also question whether he has the pace to be a 12. Side or back of the scrum sure - but 12. I would have thought they have much better options around than Big Sam.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I know we all talk about the uniformity of all league positions but there are differences. SBW was also a 2nd row/centre, who debuted as a centre, was good at running the wider channels and getting the offload away to the winger.

Burgess is a front rower/2nd row who lacks the athleticism and offloading to match SBW. Based on how much SBW struggled at first, you can only imagine Burgess would take even longer to adapt, and even then not have the natural attributes to be a world/international class option at 12.

Could see him as a 6 or 8, but he would also limit the selections around him, as I doubt he would become an extremely strong and effective line out option within 12 months, meaning you probably couldn't pick another loosie who is equally weak (Vunipola, Morgan, Waldrom).

 

[deL]

No one has the same offloading capabilities as SBW, but Burgess' offload is definitely passable and will be at least on par with other rugby centres. His foot speed and footwork are also JUST OK for a centre position in my opinion. He's going to be a lot bigger and stronger than any other centre though which is his real appeal. I think physically he is a great option but mentally I feel his ability to learn and adapt is so far untested (having said that, so was Folau's...) and he is an absolute penalty magnet and really needs to work on the errors and discipline as it will be even more punished in rugby. That would be my biggest worry - he has all the physical tools required it's just a gamble on how well he adapts and how he takes the coaching.

 

[Pfitzy]

He'd have to re invent his ball carrying style, learn new defensive systems, develop a distributing and kicking game and learn the ins and out of the ruck. He has a lot of the raw athletic skills required but its doubtful he'd be make a passable international 12 in the 12 months he has to master all of the above

But he doesn't have to master any of that. Point him at the opposition, run him off set piece, and see what happens with a big crashballer at 12. Not in decades has any Pommy 12 ever threatened to be the second five-eighths that the ABs use.

Sorry to disappoint the backs here who think that playing in double digits makes you a genius of some kind, but the lines for 6 or 8 are way more complicated to on both attack and defence, especially at set piece.

For 12, its not easy, but its far simpler: line up opposite that bloke, and remember whether you're drifting or not. On attack for Burgess - pass the ball in front and let him crash it up. Whether he places it correctly is largely down to the flankers making it there in time.

 

[TOCC]

Now, let's see. England play the Wobbs with Burgess as 12. Do we all still believe that Folau is best at full-back?

Does Australia play their best player under the highball and kick returns against a team which historically kicks out of their half almost every single time?

I think the answer is obvious..

 

[Train Without a Station]

DeL and Pfitzy, it sounds so simple playing 12. Why didn't/don't we just play Higgers, Rocky, Palu or any other fluffybunny we've had in the back row there. Athletically a few of these guys have offered the same, and if the physical size advantage was all that mattered they would have dominated.

The reason they never played there is because it's not. The backline can be a lonely place in defence and with more space a player can easily be shown up.