Rugby Coaching

[Hugh Jarse]

I am of the opinion that the Art of Rugby can not be reduced to a science by reducing the game to a series of numbers such as tackles made, tackles missed, "mistakes" made, ball carries, passes, kicks etc by individual players.

My view of this is also that if these "numbers" are taken by one person with a clipboard watching the game live, or a past match "player stats" review of a one fixed camera video by one person, then the stats are generally meaningless, one dimentional and can often have a very detrimental effect on team morale.

Rucking Good Stats can probably vouch for the time and effort needed to compile accurate and meaningful stats for a game.

Not all "tackles made" are equal, not all "tackles missed" have meaningful consequences for the team, not all "Rucks attended" contribute to overall team performance.

Can the game be reduced to a series of numbers? If so what are the best numbers to monitor/count? What is the best/easiset way of capturing the numbers in a manner that is useful to assist ongoing player development?

 

[Athilnaur]

Can the game be reduced to a series of numbers? If so what are the best numbers to monitor/count? What is the best/easiset way of capturing the numbers in a manner that is useful to assist ongoing player development?

As some here probably know I like to keep a tab on stats, a habit from my business development/datamining type background. While others like RGS are far more able to comment, in the interest of getting the ball rolling;

No it can't. Well not in the sense you mean, games like rugby challenge are programmed, so in theory you could replicate a game afterwards, not relevant here tho tools like that are developing (eg kafes chalkboard tech).

But stats, if taken in context, can be very revealing. Who is doing the most work? Who is the most accurate tackler? Who is getting the most run metres as a blindside? Who is yielding the best combination of these for the least penalties? For example late in the super season last year, I had enough data to look at centres, a position that worried me as we headed to the R W C if they were playing besides Quade. I am a big believer in hard hitting defensive centres and we didn't have one with Morty gone. So I assembled the data for aussie centres and leading overseas centres. Unsurprisingly Fourie, Nonu, and particularly SBW dominated in the model, but a leading Aussie was a surprise, not JOC (James O'Connor) but McCabe, primarily due to his high workrate of accurate tackling, something I'd modelled as a key component for a centre playing outside Quade. I hadn't even looked at him till then.

As a player development tool, I'm no coach but I'd avoid them, it's counterproductive to morale, and far too simplistic other than as a way of helping to be objective about my teams performance.

Ath.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

snip...

As a player development tool, I'm no coach but I'd avoid them, it's counterproductive to morale, and far too simplistic other than as a way of helping to be objective about my teams performance.

Ath.

I agree. If a coach has too much focus on the stats, a player who is under pressure to improve his "count" may deliberately position themselves so that they will not be placed in a position where their stats could be adversely impacted. This will be to the individual's advantage but counter productive at the team level.

A player may also not try the 110% desperate try saver tackle for fear of having a "missed tackle" recorded against them . Why bust a gut for a potential negative personal result when you can cruise, let the winger in for a try, but keep your 100% Tackles made statistic intact.

 

[It is what it is]

2 examples of the flaws in stats, both from rugby league.
- Years ago when Jack Gibson coached Souths he purposely positioned Charlie Frith on one side of their defence. No big deal except Jack knew that opposition players were terrified of Charlie's brutal hits and wouldn't run anywhere near him if half smart. Jack was therefore able to regularly play Charlie's side of the ruck short staffed in defence. Re the stats, 2 things resulted.....Charlie and his side of the ruck made fewer tackles and the other side made many more. Today's stats gurus would make the stupid claim that Charlie wasn't doing enough in defence!!!
- Playing at Sydney Roosters, Minichello has been a good fullback for many years. These days however he 'pads out' his running yards by getting into dummy half on the 1st tackle after the Roosters run the ball back. This enables him to gain good yardage when the defence is still aligning and boost his 'metres per game stats', a key determinant of a full back's performance. This is not what he is paid to do however. He is supposed to make ground as the initial returner of the ball from kicks. His initial return metres are down considerably, but he drives them back up by 6-10m runs into forwards without any penetration. Just looking at his overall run stats, things look better than they really are.

 

[antimony]

Hey After some advice.

I mentioned to friend that I'd be interested in doing my coaching level 1 the other day. I haven't played for a while after a major shoulder op. Don't have the time to coach right now but its something I'd like to do in the future. Thought it might take a while to organise.

He called me today and I'm now attending a coarse on Sunday at his club. Little sooner than I'd thought and I'm a little nervous.

Any one done it? what's it like what should I expect? I know I have to construct a drill at the end should I be dusting off my boots?

 

[yourmatesam]

Hey After some advice.

Little sooner than I'd thought and I'm a little nervous.

Any one done it? what's it like what should I expect? I know I have to construct a drill at the end should I be dusting off my boots?

You'll be fine mate, don't stress about it, the courses are run in an effort to get people involved!! For me, the biggest thing that I got out of the Level I was the importance of planning and reviewing a session. It's not something I had ever thought about and really opened my eyes about time management.

Think of one core skill that you know well and work out a simple drill that you can provide 3 key points for participants to perform in the drill.

ie - basic catch pass = hands up, foot position towards ball carrier, sympathetic pass, ball in front etc etc. Working an a 5mx5m grid.

Enjoy the course mate, it's a long day but you will get a lot out of it.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Tracking the trends of the modern game

Rugby is a dynamic game with a range of unique characteristics – and because of its nature, it has the attraction of being a game that is constantly evolving and changing. Some of these changes are seen as beneficial and some not so; the role of the IRB Game Analysis Department is to assess the impact on the shape and attraction of the modern game.

Stumbled on this website that is full of useful and useless analytical information from recent and not so recent games.
Source: http://www.irbplayerwelfare.com/?documentid=76

The analysis in the downloadable pdf documents looks awesomely detailed but is a bit of information overload at the moment so I can't really comment on how useful this would be for the average village park coach. I reckon it would be extremely useful for the professional rugby philosophers and strategists.

Also useful for the club room loud mouth and rugby trivia expert to trot out all sorts of obscure facts authoratatively.

There are all sorts of other useful Player related welfare resources available by sniffing around on http://www.irbplayerwelfare.com, including some interactive Concussion Management modules (you need IRB Passport registration for these - whatever that is).

 

[Hugh Jarse]

...snip.....
The Wobs still look poorly coached; not by just Deans and Co but by all the coaches they have had in their careers. Our lads get to Super Rugby and test match rugby too soon: full of hope and promise but ill-formed and not rugby wise.
...snip....

Yet some make the transition from Schoolboy -> Grown Up very well without serving an extended apprenticeship in Colts and the Grades.

Bam Bam Pocock, Beiber O'Connor being two such examples. Interesting that they both came from Nudgee College (IIRC).
An example of the perils of bypassing the apprenticeship would be Gilbert Beale and Daniel Hangers. Both were rushed to the top level rather quickly and found wanting initially. Interesting that they were both products of Sydney AAGPS system.
Michael Hooper conversely, straight out of ISA battler school St Pius X, is another example of the fast track working – so far.

It is not just a Sydney vs BrisVegas thing and I am probably being very selective in the examples used, and they are probably statistically irrelevant in terms of making a statement that Nudgee College has it right and NSW AAGPS haven’t.

Turning to the coaching issue, I agree with Lee. It is not unreasonable for the National Coach to assume players have basic skills of pass and catch, tackle, kick etc well and truly mastered by the time the selection magnifying glass is applied to them. Dingo should not have to conduct remedial basic skills coaching, however the Wobs seem to demonstrate a lot of basic skills being poorly executed particularly under pressure. Many of those deficiencies could be traced back to being poorly coached in the younger teen years.

This comes back to a point I keep harping on about in relation to a coordinated top to bottom Coaching model from Under 6's to Men & Women in Gold. The rhetoric is there in all the pathway literature and the pathway, foundation, Level 1, 2, 3 ARU Coaching models, but yet we are still getting players who struggle to execute basic skills being selected for the Wobs. Not only do we need to have the basic framework and principles in place, but there should be some form of quality assurance and governance oversight to ensure that standards and development objectives continue to be being met.

Is there too much emphasis on winning premierships and state titles in the lower grades (Under 10 - Under 16)? The literature suggests that the focus in this age group should be on basic athletic development and skills acquisition. All too frequently, it seems to be about winning games not overall player development. Select and use the big boy as a battering ram against the smaller boys. Why waste time teaching the big boy evasion skills, and draw and pass when they will win the Coach and Parents a premiership simply by running straight over the top of the physically smaller boys in their age group? It is all about premierships and age group State Championships isn’t it?

The Canadian Long Term Athletic Development Model refers to this period as the “Learning to Train” Stage (Males 9-12 Females 8-11) and “Training To Train” (Males 12-16, Females 11-15) Stage. While this model is about developing world class elite athletes, if you ask nearly any parent or Coach in the Under 12’s about the future prospects of Xavier, Oliver, Angelo or Sione, and they would confirm that they are all future elite world beaters.

Learning to Train stage: (Males 9-12 Females 8-11)
Overall sport skills development;
Major skill learning stage: all basic sport Skills should be learned before entering “Training to Train”
Integrated mental, cognitive, and emotional development
Introduction to mental preparation
Medicine ball, Swiss ball, own body strength exercise
Introduce ancillary capacities
Talent Identification
Single or double periodisation
Sport specific training 3 times week;
participation in other sports 3 times a week

Training to Train Stage (Males 12-16, Females 11-15)
Sport specific skill development
Major fitness development stage:
Aerobic and strength. The onset of Peak Height Velocity (PHV) and PHV are the reference points
Integrated mental, cognitive, and emotional development
Develop mental preparation
Introduce free weights
Develop ancillary capacities
Frequent musculoskeletal evaluations during PHV
Selection
Single or double periodisation
Sport specific training 6-9 times per Week including complementary sports


“Training to Compete” Stage (Males 16-23+, Females 15-21+)
Sport, event, position specific physical conditioning
Sport, event, position specific technical tactical preparation
Sport, event, position specific technical and playing skills under competitive conditions
Integrated mental, cognitive, and emotional development
Advanced mental preparation
Optimize ancillary capacities
Specialization
Single, double, or triple periodisation
Sport specific technical, tactical and fitness training 9-12 times per week

Training to Win Stage (Males 19+, Females 18+)
Ages are sport specific based on international normative data
Maintenance or improvement of physical capacities
Further development of technical, tactical, and playing skills
Modelling all possible aspects of training and performance
Frequent prophylactic breaks
Maximize ancillary capacities
High Performance
Single, double, triple, or multiple periodisation
Sport specific technical, tactical, and fitness training 9-15 times per week

The Training to Compete and Training to Win stages are really the realm of Colts, School Opens, and ARU HPU where there is an ability to provide the specialised development resources that are beyond the capacity of the enthusiastic Mum and Dad (or rostered Teacher) volunteer that is typically seen at Village Club and lower ages in the Schools. There is an argument that Sydney Juniors should finish at Under 16’s, with Colts Programs running U17, U18 competitions albeit in a 14 week and finals format similar to the existing SJRU format.

 

[Lee Grant]

That's worth a blog HJ

 

[Hugh Jarse]

ARU LEVEL 3 COACHING COURSE 2013 APPLICATION:​

http://www.rugby.com.au/tryrugby/Coaching/Courses/Level3.aspx​

 

[Jets]

Just sent in my application for Level 3 Coaching Course. It closes today for anyone interested. If I get accepted I might do some blog articles about it. It's a big IF though.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

On behalf of most of us*, Good Luck Jets. Hope you make it.

ARU Level 3 Coaching qualification is a rather exclusive club.



*Not sure that I am authorised to speak on behalf of all Gaggerlanders.

 

[Jets]

Thanks Hugh

 

[Hugh Jarse]

When the TV pans onto the coaching box, we often see one or two apple laptops.

What would be on those? Live TV Streams or specialist software. If the latter, what software would it be and how much does it cost for licences?

What game day edge does this actually provide over the old school Coaching communication skills, knowledge and intuition?

Where I am heading is, if it is not prohibitively expensive, how soon is it before we see similar in Clubland, Schools, age group rep sides etc?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

When the TV pans onto the coaching box, we often see one or two apple laptops.

What would be on those? Live TV Streams or specialist software. If the latter, what software would it be and how much does it cost for licences?

What game day edge does this actually provide over the old school Coaching communication skills, knowledge and intuition?

Where I am heading is, if it is not prohibitively expensive, how soon is it before we see similar in Clubland, Schools, age group rep sides etc?

They're reading GGR and praying for inspiration

 

[yourmatesam]

Hugh Jarse There are products available to coaches that allow them to enter their own stats into. The ARU were pushing this to Level II coaches early this year. Not sure what the take up rate was on that, but i think its a good tool for club coaches

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Hugh Jarse There are products available to coaches that allow them to enter their own stats into. The ARU were pushing this to Level II coaches early this year. Not sure what the take up rate was on that, but i think its a good tool for club coaches

if that's the program Deans & Co are using perhaps they ought to do a virus scan on it.

 

[Jets]

iCoach is a kiwi developed program that is designed for club coaches. I've never used it but it seems to be pretty simple and would cover most of the requirements of a club team.

I used to use a program that could be adjusted to record any stats that you wanted to track, can't recall what it was called. It was a bit time consuming but once you worked it out it could be done in real time (I was never that good so would take about 3 hours to code a game)

http://www.i-coachrugby.com

 

[Scott Allen]

Here's a link to an article I've posted on tactics you can use to attack a team using an 'Umbrella' defensive system

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/attacking-an-umbrella-defensive-system/

 

[TOCC]

Here's a link to an article I've posted on tactics you can use to attack a team using an 'Umbrella' defensive system

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/attacking-an-umbrella-defensive-system/

Great work