Rugby Championship 2012: Our Backline
- Thread starter Athilnaur
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Given that the other option was Fainga, it's hard to argue that his selection was outrageous as some are suggesting.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Anyway, my point is we need to have more attacking ability from our centres to beat NZ.
If you look at the teams from the June internationals, NZ's combination of SBW and Smith looks a lot more dangerous, and can supply their dangerous outside backs with ball. Simply, NZ's attack (in most games) is simply too good to think it can be contained and you can win merely off the back of a huge defensive effort. Even SA scored some better backline tries than we did.
I think we are likely to win the odd game like that, but not a whole series.
If you look at the teams from the June internationals, NZ's combination of SBW and Smith looks a lot more dangerous, and can supply their dangerous outside backs with ball. Simply, NZ's attack (in most games) is simply too good to think it can be contained and you can win merely off the back of a huge defensive effort. Even SA scored some better backline tries than we did.
I think we are likely to win the odd game like that, but not a whole series.
What if we don't have any centres as good as SBW and Smith?
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
We don't. (Well, most of us, a couple people here aside.) I think those two would've been the walk up starters for the Wallabies in the June internationals if we could pick them.
But I don't think we should therefore choose to play a defensive combination at centre and believe that it is enough that we shut them down whenever possible. Those guys have the ability to unleash their dangerous outside players when the opportunity comes up. Our current centres will struggle to do so, no matter how good their defensive performance is.
And watching the Wallabies have a mainly impotent attack, when their backline used to be their strength, is not something I am too keen on.
But I don't think we should therefore choose to play a defensive combination at centre and believe that it is enough that we shut them down whenever possible. Those guys have the ability to unleash their dangerous outside players when the opportunity comes up. Our current centres will struggle to do so, no matter how good their defensive performance is.
And watching the Wallabies have a mainly impotent attack, when their backline used to be their strength, is not something I am too keen on.
I think the Suncorp game last year is a good blueprint for how we can beat the ABs.
We have to smash them in the forwards and backs early and get them off their game. Only after we put pressure on them will they start making mistakes.
If we try and play the same way they do and it ends up being a shootout, we'll lose almost every time.
We have to smash them in the forwards and backs early and get them off their game. Only after we put pressure on them will they start making mistakes.
If we try and play the same way they do and it ends up being a shootout, we'll lose almost every time.
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
It's funny you mention that game at Suncorp. Keep hearing how we won't beat the ABs we our current centres because they don't attack or something.. well let's see the tries we scored in that game.. Genia scored from a snipe close to the ruck, Samo's run and then another Genia snipe offload to Ioane then Beale. Not one of those involved the centres. All individual brilliance.
Schadenfreude
John Solomon (38)
I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding here.
Half back sniping makes room for fly-half running.
Flyhalf running creates space for halfbacks and centers.
If McCabe and Fainga'a weren't hard runners there wouldn't be as many gaps elsewhere.
Half back sniping makes room for fly-half running.
Flyhalf running creates space for halfbacks and centers.
If McCabe and Fainga'a weren't hard runners there wouldn't be as many gaps elsewhere.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
If you look at the difference in personnel in the 2010 backline, you see how much we've missed JOC (James O'Connor), Mitchell and Cooper (as well as Beale for 3 tests) from an attacking point of view.
If the pack front up and keep improving, with those blokes back in the 22 I reckon we'll go a lot better.
If the pack front up and keep improving, with those blokes back in the 22 I reckon we'll go a lot better.
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
Far out, KB (Kurtley Beale)'s highlight real is amazing.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Isn't it just. He's been quite outstanding since moving to fullback.
Now depending on the wash up from the Reds v. Rebels game tonight, all this talk about backlines could be all a bit moot. If JOC (James O'Connor) has a reasonably serious injury and Cooper pulls up a bit lame then what we saw in the Wales series will be it for TRC. We'd better get used to it I suppose.
Athilnaur
Arch Winning (36)
There isn't a team in rugby union that wouldn't pick them.
But rugby is a simple game.
Have good defence. Beat oppositions defense.
We have Beale, Genia, JOC (James O'Connor), Ioane. Also AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell and Turner.
Do you think maybe McCabe and Horne might add some real value to that?
Scott Allen
Trevor Allan (34)
I think the bigger issue with our backline is the lack of creative backline play. Where are the plays? They don't have to be hugely complicated but we are doing nothing to confuse the opposition.
All the Wallaby backline seems to do these days is to get the ball to an individual player and expect them to beat defenders. When we think of the great centres of the past, they didn't become great playing individually, they were put into holes created by deception, running lines off the ball etc etc.
The Wallaby backline has been gradually becoming less and less creative every year since Deans took over. Instead we now rely on individuals to create something. That may happen when Cooper, Beale and O'Connor are in the side and in form but our centres (whoever you select) need to have holes created for them to run into.
All the Wallaby backline seems to do these days is to get the ball to an individual player and expect them to beat defenders. When we think of the great centres of the past, they didn't become great playing individually, they were put into holes created by deception, running lines off the ball etc etc.
The Wallaby backline has been gradually becoming less and less creative every year since Deans took over. Instead we now rely on individuals to create something. That may happen when Cooper, Beale and O'Connor are in the side and in form but our centres (whoever you select) need to have holes created for them to run into.
Schadenfreude
John Solomon (38)
I thought the Reds players in response to the recent wallabies displays were calculated and impressive.
Cooper showed he can play a conservative game - the style Barnes plays, but also add the crazy stuff as well. The centres both showed what passing centres can do. Harris' kicking is virtually flawless. CFS looks impressive, silky skills positionally aware, dangerous in attack. Samo looked solid - I did like Vuna looking up at Samo when about to pick and drive, then deciding to run around him...
The only one that looked lost was Lucas - but by the looks of it the backline has readjusted to Cooper, and are expecting better service. Tough shoes to fill.
Cooper showed he can play a conservative game - the style Barnes plays, but also add the crazy stuff as well. The centres both showed what passing centres can do. Harris' kicking is virtually flawless. CFS looks impressive, silky skills positionally aware, dangerous in attack. Samo looked solid - I did like Vuna looking up at Samo when about to pick and drive, then deciding to run around him...
The only one that looked lost was Lucas - but by the looks of it the backline has readjusted to Cooper, and are expecting better service. Tough shoes to fill.
Joe Blow
John Hipwell (52)
I disagree. Cooper-McCabe at 10-12 is very balanced. I think we will see both Cooper and Barnes in the 22 and if Cooper starts and is off his game, he can be replaced by Barnes at any point. By the same token Barnes can always start and Cooper can replace him at some point.
The problem is how to fit Barnes, McCabe and Copper into a starting 15?
Can't do it without moving McCabe to 13 and that is just not going to happen right now.
All of a sudden there is a lot of love for both McCabe and Barnes, and rightly so after both played a big part in the series win over Wales.
Quade showed last night again that he is our best 10 in attack and in organising the backline. There are some legitimate questions defensively but boy, we really need him to be our first choice 10 for the Wallabies to play to their full potential.
Against most opposition I would start with Cooper - McCabe with Barnes on the bench.
13? That is an even more difficult puzzle, but you can bet that Horne will start there in our next test if he is fit.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I think Anthony Fainga'a dispelled the myth that he is inferior in attack. Heavily involved, made breaks, put outside players into space. Dropped a few blokes on their arse in defence for good measure too.
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