Rugby 7s general chat

[USARugger]

I think we are on the same page here - I did have the US Olympic system in mind when I posted. I suspect we may have to see the 2016 games come and go for many athletes in australia to really get the smell of that lure deep inside their nostrils.

I don't know what the Olympics climate is like in Australia but it's pretty much the most prestigious honor and American athlete can earn.

Kenya is successful because they are really fucking good and believe in the cause. Seriously they've been outplaying teams for years now and their facilities are absolutely shit. From what I can gather there really is no drive for the Thunderbolt players to go out there and give it their all, or treat it much differently than they would any high-profile 7s match.

 

[southsider]

I haven't seen them casting the net wide in men's, but they definitely have talent identification camps for women's 7s. They have attracted a number of women from other sports, particularly touch football.

http://www.rugby.com.au/sevens/News/NewsArticle/tabid/1754/ArticleID/8029/Default.aspx

i play quite a bit of representative oztag and from what ive heard nearly all the Aussie 7's girls team are either touch or oztag players for australia aswell!!

 

[southsider]

I don't know what the Olympics climate is like in Australia but it's pretty much the most prestigious honor and American athlete can earn.

i wouldnt mind putting a odd $50 now on america to win/place at the games in 7's. I think theyll really ramp up their program and they have so many reject nfl and even bball players that are tremendous athletes who might just be able to get by on athletic ability and upset their probably more skilled opponents, especially if countries dont play their 15's superstars

 

[USARugger]

We'll see about that. Isles has been the only real convert that I think anyone could call a success at this point, even then he still can't get off the bench regularly.

I think basketball players would convert to rugby much easier than most football players. When you put tackling aside (which bears little resemblance to grid-iron 'tackling' anyway) basketball is a much more similar sport to rugby.

 

[southsider]

We'll see about that. Isles has been the only real convert that I think anyone could call a success at this point, even then he still can't get off the bench regularly.

I think basketball players would convert to rugby much easier than most football players. When you put tackling aside (which bears little resemblance to grid-iron 'tackling' anyway) basketball is a much more similar sport to rugby.

true, although i would like to think he is version one of many more converts to come, i really want america to go well because becoming part of the american sporting market would be a huge step in rugbys favour!

As for basketballers i wouldnt mind sombody of Lebrons build on my side at all!

 

[USARugger]

Rugby already is part of the American sporting market, just not a very big one! Although the sheer size of the nation and relative dollar strength globally means we are one of the top spenders for rugby worldwide already. This proposal by the NFL/Premiere Rugby is very encouraging though not only for the game, but my future job prospects (I live in Philadelphia, if it's actually a Boston -> Miami based league Philly will get a franchise): http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1636597-nfl-and-premier-rugby-to-partner-in-usa

It's actually shocked me for a little that there hasn't been more of an attempt to convert some basketball guys over. They are already more far conditioned towards playing rugby and the ball movement and tactics in open court play are very similar to open-field play in rugby (you know..the majority of the game) which ironically is one aspect of rugby that is absolutely non-existent in grid-iron. In my eyes it is much easier to develop an athlete physically than it is to undo a lifetime of neural wiring geared towards accomplishing a very different set of goals on the field. Basketball players don't need to be taught how to mark a man in defense, how and where to look for players to move the ball to, etc. Tackling is easy to teach.

Oh and I've said this on her before but Isles was a Track and Field convert. Anyone who tells you he was a grid-iron convert is very fucking out of touch and very fucking wrong. He played grid-iron, yes. But it was always as an auxiliary to his phenomenal sprinting ability. His biggest strengths right now are also those he got from T&F, his acceleration and pace.

 

[Rassie]

You are trolling surely. Rugby was last played at the olympics as a 15 aside game in 1924.

Automatic qualification for the gold medalists from 92 years ago would be akin to having the country that won the 4x400 metre relay Gold in 1924 granted a start in the final of the 4x100 metre relay in 2016.

Good trivia question though - Who is the defending Olympic Gold Medallist for Rugby? A. USA, 1924

No I am not trolling and it was Rugby that played at the Olynpics. It wasn't advertised as rugby 15's or 7's but rugby. Same as the OLympics football isn't advertised as the u/23's. Just Olympic Football like Rugby will be known as Olympic Rugby.

And rugby was never taken away. It was just included in one of the sports that the hosting city had the choice to include it or not. As time went on people forgot about the that rule and wasn't included by cities hosting who are part of the rugby culture. Please define trolling for me as I am confused what it includes today.

 

[SevensPhD]

There are many reasons Australia isn't in the top 2-3 in the World. Australian rugby culture is probably one of the biggest...they have been slow to warm up to sevens as a legitimate sport. This leads to selection of 17-20 year-olds as a way to tooth them on an international stage. Having the likes of Bernard Foley, Shipperley, Gill, etc play 1-2 seasons then move on is great for Super Rugby and the Wallabies, but sets the sevens team back each year. Australia is always the youngest on the Series....however, they tend to be a top 3-5 team by the end, only to get knocked back at the start of the next season.

Some data:

 

[Jets]

I think there has been a target outside traditional rugby schools for the 7's program. I know that Keebra Park on the Gold Coast has created a pathway for players to 7's and they are a traditional League school with links to the Tigers. Benji Marshall went there.
I actually think the national schoolbous 7's is a great way to promote the game and expose a lot of new players to the game. The schools love it too as they have the chance to win a national title.
I was in a conversation with a teacher from a local school that switched from rugby to league as their major sports recently. When asked if they would switch back he mentioned that they would as soon as there was a national comp they can enter. While this wont happen in 15's any time soon it is easily done with 7's.

 

[Thinker]

The reality of the situation is at this stage the Yanks wouldn't even qualify for the Olympics. Only 12 teams will make it tough for almost everyone, except those who get the four spots.

What I'm most interested in is how those attending Brazil will get through a day of 7s without a drink. The 7s culture of fun in the crowd seems diametrically opposed to the culture of the Olympics.

 

[Jets]

The US only have to beat Canada to qualify from my understanding. Currently they probably wouldn't but they still have 2 years to sort themselves out.

 

[SevensPhD]

It is true, USA vs Canada for an Olympic spot. The loser goes to a final qualifying tournament with the likes of Oceania's 4th or 5th best team to beat to qualify.
Note the table I posted above...Canada in 12th and USA in 5th over the last 3 IRB tournaments. They are closer than that, but the USA has been playing better sevens recently.

Qualification:
Brazil MAY NOT have an auto-spot, IRB says they must prove worth. This is still undecided.
Top 4 teams from IRB Series
1 team each from a qualifying tournament:
Europe
Asia
Africa
Oceania
North America/Carribbean
South America
1-2 teams from a global repecharge tournament, depending on if Brazil gets a pass.

GB qualifying route unknown, but that constitutes 3 teams from the IRB Series.

If this year was a qualifying year, then Australia would likely make it:

Top 4: NZ, South Africa, Fiji, Samoa
Europe: France vs Spain vs. Portugal vs. Russian vs. Great Britain(easily the best team in the region)
Asia: Japan or Hong Kong (better team now)
Africa: Zimbabwe vs Kenya (better team, but closer than people think)
Oceania: Tonga vs Australia (much better team)
NA: Canada vs USA (very close, "bounce of the ball" type match)
SA: Argentina by far
Repecharge: USA or Canada/Tonga/France/Spain/Portugal/Japan or Hong Kong/Uruguay/Chile/Brazil/Zimbabwe...I'd bet on USA or Canada

*edited to include the Frenchies....

 

[Jets]

Pretty much my thinking. The issue for Australia comes if England find some form and finish in the top 4 of the IRB then they have to play Fiji or Samoa and life becomes harder.

Also add France to the Europe pool. If GB in the automatic qualification they would be the Europe team. If not they go into the repêchage and will make it much harder for the USA/Canada looser.

 

[SevensPhD]

Pretty much my thinking. The issue for Australia comes if England find some form and finish in the top 4 of the IRB then they have to play Fiji or Samoa and life becomes harder.

Also add France to the Europe pool. If GB in the automatic qualification they would be the Europe team. If not they go into the repêchage and will make it much harder for the USA/Canada looser.

The great outlier is GB. The idea I agree most with is having GB compete on the Series in 14/15, and try to finish in the Top 4, then again in 15/16. That would remove England/Scotland/Wales from the Series and offer a chance to 2 other teams to develop(Series needs an Asian team on it- huge audience). It will also allow GB to train together as a team and try out different players.

But others think that a top 4 finish by any of the GB nations (i.e England alone) allows GB to qualify. That is unfair to me, giving them 3 chances for a top 4, and the dilemma of 2 GB nations throwing games to the third nation. Unlikely to happen, but corruption does exist in sport.

France added above...forgot about them!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I think there has been a target outside traditional rugby schools for the 7's program. I know that Keebra Park on the Gold Coast has created a pathway for players to 7's and they are a traditional League school with links to the Tigers. Benji Marshall went there.
I actually think the national schoolbous 7's is a great way to promote the game and expose a lot of new players to the game. The schools love it too as they have the chance to win a national title.
I was in a conversation with a teacher from a local school that switched from rugby to league as their major sports recently. When asked if they would switch back he mentioned that they would as soon as there was a national comp they can enter. While this wont happen in 15's any time soon it is easily done with 7's.

It's something that should be looked at seriously. Establishing an entire school Sevens structure from local district comps, regional, state and then nationals. The beauty of 7s is that it allows for gala days as competition structures and is easier for new schools to get up to standard very quickly.

 

[Jets]

It's something that should be looked at seriously. Establishing an entire school Sevens structure from local district comps, regional, state and then nationals. The beauty of 7s is that it allows for gala days as competition structures and is easier for new schools to get up to standard very quickly.

It makes so much sense to me. The ARU and state unions should jump onto this straight away. You could have almost every school in the country play in a comp within a year or two. The majority would be knocked out after one day but they would have still taken part.

If a team was to be crowned national champs it would only involve around 4-5 days of tournaments pointed out by WorkingClassRugger above.

The thing about 7's is that with just a few good players you can dramatically transform a teams fortunes. A team that competes in their fist tournament could knock out established "rugby schools" on the back of some freakish talent.
Kids who play league and AFL would be exposed and educated about the Olympic pathway that is available.

 

[JSRF10]

It is true, USA vs Canada for an Olympic spot. The loser goes to a final qualifying tournament with the likes of Oceania's 4th or 5th best team to beat to qualify.
Note the table I posted above.Canada in 12th and USA in 5th over the last 3 IRB tournaments. They are closer than that, but the USA has been playing better sevens recently.

Qualification:
Brazil MAY NOT have an auto-spot, IRB says they must prove worth. This is still undecided.
Top 4 teams from IRB Series
1 team each from a qualifying tournament:
Europe
Asia
Africa
Oceania
North America/Carribbean
South America
1-2 teams from a global repecharge tournament, depending on if Brazil gets a pass.

GB qualifying route unknown, but that constitutes 3 teams from the IRB Series.

If this year was a qualifying year, then Australia would likely make it:

Top 4: NZ, South Africa, Fiji, Samoa
Europe: France vs Spain vs. Portugal vs. Russian vs. Great Britain(easily the best team in the region)
Asia: Japan or Hong Kong (better team now)
Africa: Zimbabwe vs Kenya (better team, but closer than people think)
Oceania: Tonga vs Australia (much better team)
NA: Canada vs USA (very close, "bounce of the ball" type match)
SA: Argentina by far
Repecharge: USA or Canada/Tonga/France/Spain/Portugal/Japan or Hong Kong/Uruguay/Chile/Brazil/Zimbabwe.I'd bet on USA or Canada

*edited to include the Frenchies..

Ireland isn't on the World Series Tour but I do believe we will be entering mens and womens teams at the repercharge stage. However I'd say no matter what kind of team we put together we'll be the whipping boys!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

It makes so much sense to me. The ARU and state unions should jump onto this straight away. You could have almost every school in the country play in a comp within a year or two. The majority would be knocked out after one day but they would have still taken part.

If a team was to be crowned national champs it would only involve around 4-5 days of tournaments pointed out by WorkingClassRugger above.

The thing about 7's is that with just a few good players you can dramatically transform a teams fortunes. A team that competes in their fist tournament could knock out established "rugby schools" on the back of some freakish talent.
Kids who play league and AFL would be exposed and educated about the Olympic pathway that is available.

District tournament, top four through to Regionals, Top 2 or 3 to State. Top 2 from State onto Nationals. Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[qwerty51]

For kicks, our best 7s side if we could select anyone:

Hooper, Genia, Beale, O'Connor, Folau, Ioane, Gill

 

[SevensPhD]

Rich get richer...NZ to offer up to $120,000 for sevens specialists: http://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-sevens/nz-team-cash-in-ahead-rio-5437902