Rugby 7s general chat

[Omar Comin']

I think it has to be more than just a series of occasional one off pre-season contests for the 15 aside boys.

Something like the Big Bash Cricket with a Tour around the major centres (on FTA), perhaps based around the 5 Soup teams, plus 3 others ARU 7's academy teams to make up an 8 team tournament. 2 pools of 4 play 3 games each before knock out semis and finals. Have local schoolboys and womens 7's games going on to fill in time while the teams recover between games.

Play Saturdays and Wednesdays with the tour playing Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane, Adelaide, Gold Coast and Newcastle. Wednesday is highlights and Finals on FTA (SBS), Saturday is all day coverage.

Have it all over and done with in the summer period when there is little else sportwise on the tele.

Possibly run it again during the Wobs Spring NH tour. You wouldn't have the first choice Wobs available, but this would provide an opportunity for the second choices to demonstrate how good they are.

You could also play such tournaments over a series of nights. Say from 6pm-9pm over a few days. Would be ideal for tv and player welfare if this would be played in summer months. For week days this would allow people to attend.

But you wouldn't get the big names (i.e. the guys who might win us olympic gold) playing in a 7's league over a number of weeks in summer unless they were getting paid decent money to do so. I think you have to prove the concept of domestic 7's as commercially viable first. Have one big event to begin with. I wouldn't limit it to just the super rugby and academy teams. You could have NZ teams, PI teams, an indigenous side, privately owned teams etc. Maybe even invite a couple of NRL teams to compete. Fill up Suncorp or the SFS over a couple of days and if that's a success you could look to expand it in future (or look to create a separate big bash style league for domestic teams).

 

[southsider]

Austrlian 7's is a joke, my mate went to a trial where the new guys played against the thuderbolts and they absolutly demolished them. A team full of guys who had just met each other against the national squad that plays multiple tournaments a year together.

They need to try making 7's more accessible to everyone, just because your not a 1st grade premier player in 15's doesnt mean you cant be a awesome 7's player!!

 

[Antony]

Austrlian 7's is a joke, my mate went to a trial where the new guys played against the thuderbolts and they absolutly demolished them. A team full of guys who had just met each other against the national squad that plays multiple tournaments a year together.

I find that pretty difficult to believe. A lot of the guys in that 7s set-up are super rugby players (Lucas, Stubbs, Stannard etc.) and as you said they play and train together all year. Unless your mate is Quade Cooper, I doubt he could just pitch up and smash them.

 

[wamberal]

It would be wonderful if a Sevens circuit just miraculously sprang up. However, we all know that it won't, unless a sporting entrepreneur with deep pockets suddenly gets bored and want to invest in something new.


A couple of random thoughts about Sevens. When I first went to live and work in Hong Kong, in 1977, the Hong Kong Sevens was played at the old Football Club stadium, and drew 2 or 3000 spectators on the final day. On the previous day, virtually nobody went to the event.

In those days, and for the next few years, New Zealand was represented by the province that won the national championship. I seem to remember Manawatu used to be fairly successful, but could be wrong. However, the point is that the roots of Sevens in New Zealand are deep and strong. They are similarly deep and strong in Fiji, although the game seems to be under threat there (poaching from Europe and the NRL?).


I remember a long time ago, that the Kiama Sevens was a reasonably important weekend, most of the Sydney clubs sent a squad there for a bit of a pre-season hit-out.


It took many years for the Hong Kong Sevens to grow to anything like the popularity that it has achieved over recent years. A large part of the success is down to HSBC, whose chairman (Willie Purves) was also on the board of the Jockey Club, and who drove the rebuilding of the Government Stadium, allowing it to become the home of the Sevens, from which point it grew and grew and grew.


Hong Kong's success as a venue led to the establishment of the IRB Sevens, with HSBC's sponsorship a significant factor.

New Zealand's roots in the game has of course generated unprecedented success over the years, as has Fiji's until recently. The Hong Kong Sevens is now a world-class event, totally sold out months in advance.


None of this happened by accident, or wishful thinking.


The road to success was long and tough. No quick fixes. Sorry, folks, we will have to make do with a nip and a tuck here and there, unless there is a big grassroots explosion of interest and/or a Packer-style revolution.

 

[southsider]

I find that pretty difficult to believe. A lot of the guys in that 7s set-up are super rugby players (Lucas, Stubbs, Stannard etc.) and as you said they play and train together all year. Unless your mate is Quade Cooper, I doubt he could just pitch up and smash them.

1) just relaying what i was told by a person who was there/playing
2) No they arnt, there may be some in the wider playing groups/academy but anyone that is near the matchday 22 does not play 7's. Lucas and stubbs are not contracted to Aussie 7's anymore and stannard is not affiliated with a super team anymore.
3)Didnt say they play and train together all year i said they play mutliple tournaments a year together
4) whys it so hard to believe? last year the junior tahs played a match against a sydney club rugby barbarians side and got done convincingly.

ill message you next time theres a trial on and you can go watch, hopefully it wont seem so difficult to believe once you see it for yourself...

 

[SevensPhD]

Long time reader, but first time poster...I can probably give some insights here....

1. Summer Sevens is in serious development within ARU. It might not launch in full this summer, but some pilot competitions will. Pulver has a high priority on this. It will be for men, women, and youth. It will incorporate some of the existing domestic tournaments, but will also add competitions.
2. There are a few sevens contracted players already who are not pursing Super Rugby. They want to play sevens and want a shot at the Olympics. This pool will probably grow as more playing opportunities arise.
3. Olympic selection policy of the ARU: Any Wallaby or full time Super Rugby Players that want to play for the Olympics MUST play a full season on the IRB Sevens Series to be considered for selection. This meand they must forgo Super Rugby that season and commit to sevens training/touring. ARU knows/realises sevens has a different fitness level and skill set, and the team chemistry needs to be right. It is also not a good precedent to ask full time sevens players to stay contracted long term, then pull their spot at the last minute.


Cheers, Ben

 

[Bardon]

As far as I know defending Olympic champions don't automatically qualify in any sport. Every Olympic entrant has to qualify or meet minimum qualification times. Happy to be corrected on that one though!

This is correct. Every team or athlete has to qualify for the Olympics based on performances between Olympic games. The specific method of qualifying is up to the governing body of each sport. Some events have A and B standard. B being the minimum required to qualify, while A indicates a standard that would be competitive at Olympic level.

Whatever about the state of Aus preparedness for the Rio Olympics it's in a much better state than Ireland. Typical of Ireland with regard to anything to leave it until the absolute last possible second to prepare for anything. Hiding under a rock hasn't down our Rugby 7s much good, nor our economy for that matter.

It's a pity because the number of young guys we produce, especially through Leinster and Muster, who can't get into the squad would be perfect for a 7s program to ensure their development doesn't stall completely. We might not be thinking of winning gold, but if we did it properly we might actually stick around long enough for when the TV cameras show up. That would be an excellent achievement for Irish competitors, outside of boxing.

At least the women's 7s are slightly better prepared and seem to be taken more seriously. One good thing about Ireland is that we produce so few world sporting greats that gender bias isn't much of as much of an issue as in other countries. As long as you're good enough it doesn't matter whether you stand up or sit down to pee.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

The fact is, this Forum should not even be necessary - Why has the ARU not already Officially announced the pathway to the Brazil 7S for Australian Athletes - and why is it not out canvassing for Athletes from other sports - such as Sprinting, Hurdles, Triathlon and AFL (for instance) who believe they could make it in Rugby, to put their hands up, and make a bid for the team...

(It doesn't matter which sports - If you want to be an Olympic Kayaker in 2016, then you will already know what you have to do, and where you have to be over the coming 2.5 years in order to make the selection times and trials - it does not matter if you are a kayaker, triathlete, surf life saver or a boxer - you can easily find out what you need to do to make the 2016 Olympic Kayak Team.

Rugby is a team sport, but it needs to put itself in a similar position. Relying on the existing IRB 7s squad is a recipe for humiliation once the Olympic resources of some other nations click into gear...

And we need to be radical... There is NO reason why an Olympic Athlete should need to be on an ARU Contract... We ought to be cherry-picking form other sports - INCLUDING THE NRL - forget all the politics - in order to put the best 7-10 athletes we can find, on the field.

In my opinion, discussions about ongoing involvement, years of service, loyalty etc, etc which rightly come into play with the Wallabies, should not be a concern in the Olympic Squad... Just the best of the best.

There was a comment earlier that Australian 7S is a joke, it is not - bur it is still pretty cringe-inducing at times... There is no reason to expect a better result in 2016 than last weekend (and likely much less) unless the pathway for aspiring 15, 16, 17 18 & 19 year olds is made clear NOW... There needs to be an organised Trial and Training Camp arrangements for aspirants in 2013, 14 & 15 in order to entertain all-comers.... Professional Athletes - including Wallabies - should have a pathway made available to them, Now.

There is no reason why NZ should have clinched 11 of the past 14 titles in the IRB 7s except that their set-up, organisation, and talent nurturing is simply better... This is something that we can replicate, and improve - but so far the ARU has shown no competency towards doing so...

 

[wamberal]

In my opinion, discussions about ongoing involvement, years of service, loyalty etc, etc which rightly come into play with the Wallabies, should not be a concern in the Olympic Squad. Just the best of the best.

So you don't think that the Wallabies should be the "best of the best"?



Sorry, you will have to explain your logic. Nobody owns a Wallabies jersey, the chosen team - on the day - are gifted the right to wear it for that game only.



Years of service? What, the older the better?



Loyalty? Who is loyal to whom? The players to the supporters? The players to their employer? The employer to the players?


Forget loyalty, think performance. That is what the All Blacks do.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

So you don't think that the Wallabies should be the "best of the best"?



Sorry, you will have to explain your logic. Nobody owns a Wallabies jersey, the chosen team - on the day - are gifted the right to wear it for that game only.



Years of service? What, the older the better?



Loyalty? Who is loyal to whom? The players to the supporters? The players to their employer? The employer to the players?


Forget loyalty, think performance. That is what the All Blacks do.

O.K... I shall explain further...

Firstly - when Rogers, Turquiri and Sailor were drafted from League, many people made a significant argument that this was ethically the wrong thing to do - as when they played for the Wallabies, other players who had played Union since their childhood were passed over for Wallaby jerseys in favour of players who had given no service to the game, and were rushed into the Gold Jersey on significantly high salaries. The same argument has been made recently by the likes of the Brumbies Coach in regards to Folau. (For myself, I supported the surgical poaching of players from other Codes, but I did understand this argument)... In hindsight, the rather brief Union careers of some of these players suggests it is a less than ideal stategy for the Wallabies.

Year of service has nothing to do with Age - it refers to whether a spot in the Wallabies should go to the best player who has come through the schoolboys / suburban Club / Super 15 (for instance) route - or to someone like Isreal Folau who has only played a handful of games, and is yet to commit to Rugby long-term (this is Jake White's question).

In any case - what I am suggesting is that the 2016 7s jersey should be open to the best applicants in the country at that time - no matter where they come from, and no matter what they choose to do afterwards...

It is likely that most of these will come from within Rugby Union's Ranks - logic suggests... The point I am making is that if you are currently an Athlete in another sport, and you fancy your chances, what is it you need to do? - and I don't mean generally - I mean SPECIFICALLY - we are only what - 3 years out from the games...

It is likely that the NRL and AFL for instance, would never release a player for this team...true. But if I would like to see the ARU actively out there, canvassing elite performance athletes, Rugby Players etc to put their hands up and have a go - and not to simply rely on the IRB 7s squad, and maybe an equivalent development squad in order to get us there...

Our Rugby Union teams have (naturally enough) been chosen by going back to the Rank & File Players - the Club and Provincial Players to find the best candidates - what I am suggesting is that the Olympic Team ought to be casting its net wider - and looking to unearth unexpected talents... and letting young kids know what they have to do to get in the queue...

The best examples are unsurprisingly in individual sports - but I remember several years ago, Clint Robinson switched from Surf Carnivals to try to make the Olympic Kayak Team - he eventually came away with a Gold Medal. Emma George went from being a trapeze artist to become a world class pole vaulter...

Perhaps all I am really suggesting is that we need to cast our net much wider than the Wallabies do - other countries surely will.

 

[p.Tah]

I haven't seen them casting the net wide in men's, but they definitely have talent identification camps for women's 7s. They have attracted a number of women from other sports, particularly touch football.

http://www.rugby.com.au/sevens/News/NewsArticle/tabid/1754/ArticleID/8029/Default.aspx

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

I haven't seen them casting the net wide in men's, but they definitely have talent identification camps for women's 7s. They have attracted a number of women from other sports, particularly touch football.

Right-O... I don't know the specifics, but that is what I am talking about - as well as identifying talent in High School - in more than Rugby Union Schools....

 

[p.Tah]

Right-O. I don't know thhe specifics, but that is what I am talking about - as well as identifying talent in High School - in more than Rugby Union Schools..

I agree. They are beginning to look outside of the traditional rugby schools to develop 7s.

http://www.rugby.com.au/sevens/News/NewsArticle/tabid/1754/ArticleID/7704/Default.aspx

 

[USARugger]

Hell West & Crooked

If the NRL can get guys into the Olympics that they think would outperform the Union players it would be an opportunity far too good for them to pass up. They would absolutely release players for press like that.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Hell West & Crooked

If the NRL can get guys into the Olympics that they think would outperform the Union players it would be an opportunity far too good for them to pass up. They would absolutely release players for press like that.

i tend to agree... really - I don't think that we are talking about 'hordes' - but we might be talking about 1 or 2 players that just have the 'it' factor we need to round out a medal-winning team...

What worries me is that politicis will get in the way... the 'us' versus 'them' mentality.

Maybe there is No-one in these other Codes that we want or need - but maybe there is One... Ot Two... I personally could care less if we came back with a gold medal and a mungo in the winning team. or an AFL player, or a professional triathlete...

The concern is, that if all the ARU offers them is "give up your professional althete life, and go and join a 7S side, and hope that we notice you' then we will leave so much, so much talent at home, when the team finally flies out.

Also, I am saying that it is 2013, and these Talent Identification Camps - or whatever - Should ALREADY be in place, scheduled, and out in the public domain... we are late.

 

[USARugger]

Oh yeah I'd agree you guys are ages behind in that regards. The Eagles 7s have been holding regional camps here that are open to the public for a few years now trying to weed out some talent from the pack.

Fact is those these guys would all need to accept a nearly full-time shift to 7s and may need to stop doing whatever they currently are, especially if they have no history with the code. All the other teams there will be coming off of a few years of cohesive training and the Thunderbolt guys will need to be on the same page unless they are looking to get smoked. The lure of Olympic gold can be shockingly strong for some athletes..

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

So you don't think that the Wallabies should be the "best of the best"?

Womberal, I Love the Wallabies to death... and I am not trying to pick an argument with you - but they are in some ways, not the best of the best...

They are the Best of our Rugby Players across the country, who are selected from within a 3rd or 4th tier Sport - (depends on who you listen to)... and punch well above their weight in proportion to participation.

Australian Rugby is in a failry perilous position in the top 5 or 6 countries, in that it has such an enormous percentage of junior players engaged in other sports... Ireland may come close, and England South Africa and Scotland have football to contend with - (but few first-class football players have the physical attributes for Rugby)... They difference in australia is that the 2 of the 3 big rival codes poach players with the same required set of physical skills and attributes.

The Wallabies are usually the Best of the Rugby players playing in Australia, and struggle at times from their relatively shallow-talent-pool, but there are also times when I see the athletes going round in other codes, and cannot help but pause to consider what a team we would have if the majority of our kids - and not the minority - played Rugby.

At least in more recent times, our playing stocks have not been further depleted by talented players having to give the game away, because they could not afford the time away from work.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Oh yeah I'd agree you guys are ages behind in that regards. The Eagles 7s have been holding regional camps here that are open to the public for a few years now trying to weed out some talent from the pack.

Fact is those these guys would all need to accept a nearly full-time shift to 7s and may need to stop doing whatever they currently are, especially if they have no history with the code. All the other teams there will be coming off of a few years of cohesive training and the Thunderbolt guys will need to be on the same page unless they are looking to get smoked. The lure of Olympic gold can be shockingly strong for some athletes..

I think we are on the same page here - I did have the US Olympic system in mind when I posted... I suspect we may have to see the 2016 games come and go for many athletes in australia to really get the smell of that lure deep inside their nostrils...

 

[Antony]

1) just relaying what i was told by a person who was there/playing
2) No they arnt, there may be some in the wider playing groups/academy but anyone that is near the matchday 22 does not play 7's. Lucas and stubbs are not contracted to Aussie 7's anymore and stannard is not affiliated with a super team anymore.
3)Didnt say they play and train together all year i said they play mutliple tournaments a year together
4) whys it so hard to believe? last year the junior tahs played a match against a sydney club rugby barbarians side and got done convincingly.

ill message you next time theres a trial on and you can go watch, hopefully it wont seem so difficult to believe once you see it for yourself.

Mate disagreement aside, I'd actually appreciate that message.

 

[southsider]

There was a comment earlier that Australian 7S is a joke, it is not - bur it is still pretty cringe-inducing at times. quote]

i think when kenya is consistently ahead of us in the world rankings, my point of aussie 7's being a joke is valid. NZ and South africa are able to consistently be in the top 2-3 in the world, why cant we?