Round 13!!!!!, Crusaders v Waratahs

[Derpus]

If the result was the other way around 100% the kiwis would be blaming the ref as the sole reason the saders lost.

If the result was the other way around 100% the kiwis would be blaming the ref as the sole reason the saders lost.

I don't think the result is the point. Not at all.

 

[cyclopath]

I seem to remember a stat on-screen that had the Tahs giving away a huge number of penalties and missed tackles. If correct, there's your difference right there. We needed all refs decisions to go our way when we give away possession and territory.

If this was to me, you're preaching to the converted.........

Tahs really needed to get their composure right from 30 mins to about 60 mins. Too much headless chook stuff when the Crusaders were just being clinical as usual and making few errors. They just have to be better at getting on with a 29 point lead, all other things aside. They grafted better in the last 20 but really put themselves out of it before that.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's lack of self-belief. It's lack of composure, and at times skills. They kept having a crack all day, but that included a 30 min period from 30-60mins where they committed too many errors and made some really poor decisions. The way they attack tells me they have the belief. But they have too many deficiencies.

I'm not saying the Tahs lost because of the ref. They had opportunities.
I AM saying the ref made some shockers, and they should not be blithely ignored. One was clearly a Red Card offence, one quite possibly a Yellow. Not great things to miss.

 

[Up the Guts]

It's easy to blithely dismiss it when you lot win, but then you sound like you reckon Moody's action, and say, the tip tackle were all fine and dandy, and neither deserving of any action. Which doesn't really fit with how such things have been officiated all year.

It's so easy to be sanctimonious when it's not your team on the receiving end. How you can get on your soap box and criticise people for whinging at the ref when a defender is taken out off the ball with an elbow to the throat is beyond me.

Good on the Crusaders for coming back but it's a bit much to have a go at Tahs supporters upset at a couple of clear howlers.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Tahs had enough opportunities to win the game irrespective of ref decisions imho. To bring the ref into this for the Tahs would mean they have not understood how they contributed to losing for a game that was set up for them not to lose...

No Crusaders did not beat the tahs...the tahs beat themselves...

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Wow we were up 29 to 0 and lost by what score...

Lack of self belief..

Sad..as would have been a great way to break the NZ hoodoo..

Yeh there are some bigger issues in Australian professional rugby but lack of self belief is one of them as evident by today's game which we should have won..No we lost this game, threw it away through lack of self belief.. rather than Crusaders winning it..But Crusaders equally have the self belief we lack to come back from this.which says something in itself..

Waratahs are good enough to beat the best Super Rugby sides but lack self belief.....

I think there’s too much belief - and it’s misplaced.
An interesting experiment would be to offer every player an incentive based contract and see who took it.
Good enough? When? The game’s not played on paper.

 

[Up the Guts]

Well on a more positive note we had 20 minutes without two guys on the field and a reserve prop packing down at 6 for the last 25 minutes of the game. Yes there were opportunities to win but it was a bloody good effort in the end. Beale and Folau were outstanding in attack in the first half and Beale had his best defensive game since Bledislode 2 last year.

Credit to Gibson and Cron, they managed to turn Taqele's biggest weakness (turning and chasing) into an asset by positioning Folau directly behind him to lure the Crusaders into exposing Taqele and then punishing them with the best aerial player in the world.

 

[cyclopath]

I think there is correlation with what you are saying..mental side and lack of self belief leads to poor decisions, composure and at time skills. Self belief - creates calm and confidence in execution.

Crusaders have self belief despite poor decisions to not let it rattle them..difference for Tahs who are not use to seeing they can win from impossible situations in recent years..

Sort of, but a bit different I think. The Crusaders have great composure because their skill levels and systems are so well ingrained, not to mention their fitness levels. And they are just used to winning. I think these create the composure to keep executing, and trusting, the plan, rather than taking low percentage options. From the past 2 seasons, the Tahs know they can score tries (even against NZ teams, from the stats) but lack the complete game.

 

[Derpus]

Sort of, but a bit different I think. The Crusaders have great composure because their skill levels and systems are so well ingrained, not to mention their fitness levels. And they are just used to winning. I think these create the composure to keep executing, and trusting, the plan, rather than taking low percentage options. From the past 2 seasons, the Tahs know they can score tries (even against NZ teams, from the stats) but lack the complete game.

Also they can elbow people in the face freely.

 

[swingpass]

Also they can elbow people in the face freely.

And dont forget tripping when the refs on the other side of the field and cant see

 

[The Honey Badger]

^^^^^ when you lose from 29-0 up & your 5/8 missed a coupla fairly gettable penalties I'm not so sure you should start whinging about the ref. Looks a bit like you're whinging when you do that.

Why the F#ck didn't Beal take the long range shots?


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[The Honey Badger]

The single most fucked game I have ever watched

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[The Honey Badger]

No further contribution to the thread

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[Rugbynutter39]

I personally think the new slim line Taquele the way he is playing deserves a Wallaby gig.....be it starting 15 or on the bench (probably swaying towards the latter). I just am so disappointed that finally found his feet he is leaving us for Europe next year as looks bloody good and only getting better every game I see - the intercept try he scored was case in point for me.....

 

[Dan54]

Ok just got back from a pub in Brisbane where we watched Reds and Tahs game, with no sound. Was interesting. I was there 3 Aussie boys so was interested to hear their comments to. One said as Tahs got out to 29-0 what are the headlines going to say when they have Tahs going from this score to losing? But the real basic question was from us all is why did the Tahs stop playing? It seemed once they got the score up they went into their shell instead of putting their foot on the throat of the Saders!! The crusaders skills in first half were abysmal at times, but the Tahs after taking a few presents just never looked like they believed they would or could win!!

 

[The Honey Badger]

The single most fucked game I have ever watched

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And there are a few in that category, including Bled 2 last year

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[Brumby Runner]

Yeah haven't been watching either but have heard Crusaders MOTM is referee O'Keefe.

First scrum the Tahs entire 8 collapse and ref allows play on. Early lineout by Crusaders, three Tahs players finish up pushing or pulling from precisely behind the Crusaders' maul, ref allows play on where the Tahs turn over the ball and score from the ensuing play. Later Crusaders' maul, Simmons quite clearly is behind the Crusaders' maul and actually pulling players back from it. Ref allows play on. Many other instances, but I think quite clearly the ref was not favouring the Crusaders.

Tahs did great to nearly get the win. Could have still won if Foley had kicked a late penalty but the ice melted.

 

[Up the Guts]

First scrum the Tahs entire 8 collapse and ref allows play on. Early lineout by Crusaders, three Tahs players finish up pushing or pulling from precisely behind the Crusaders' maul, ref allows play on where the Tahs turn over the ball and score from the ensuing play. Later Crusaders' maul, Simmons quite clearly is behind the Crusaders' maul and actually pulling players back from it. Ref allows play on. Many other instances, but I think quite clearly the ref was not favouring the Crusaders.

Tahs did great to nearly get the win. Could have still won if Foley had kicked a late penalty but the ice melted.

I don’t think any professional referee consciously favours one team over the other. The stuff that they happen to miss on the back of sheer incompetence can have an enormous impact on the game though as it did. Should the Waratahs have won the game despite the poor decisions, certainly, would they have won if the correct decisions had been made, most probably.

 

[James Pettifer]

Lemme preface this lil rant i'm about to embark on by saying i've only seen a 5 second clip of the match, so yeah.

I fuckin got carded today in subbies for trying to trip some fluffybunny. Let me tell you, that ref must have had fucking hawk eyes because i was on the opposite wing to him when i tried to pull that shit and the touchy was from my club. Lets put a little contrast in.

How the fuck do three fluffybunnys who get paid actual legal tender miss this:

Excuse the terrible video.

I genuinely hope those fluffybunnys were on the take because it is completely, utterly fucking unacceptable. A World Rugby directive that an intentional blow to the head is dangerous play that warrants a red card and they don't notice? It wasnt even off the ball for god sake. How did they miss it? HOW?

That was the action of a player who was dead certain he would not be reprimanded. It's not fucking good enough.

So yes, you Kiwis can bang on about how we always blame the ref. You know what we'll do? we'll watch something else. SANZAAR better be prepared for higher Shute Shield crowd attendances than Super Rugby because it's coming and shit like this is why.

Anyway, now that the rant is over: how the fuck did we drop a 29 point lead? I'd say it's pathetic but its still probably our best performance all season.

Apparently the Crusaders are able to play American Rules

Ignoring the head high nature of the challenge, it is one of the most blatant obstructions relating to a try I have ever seen. The ball carrier jumped over the guy obstructed.

FFS I have seen Rebels tries pulled up because of some guy who may have potentially interfered unintentionally with someone who was vaguely in a position to tackle. And then this sort of #%#} gets let through.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The bulk of referees this year are at least bordering on incompetent. Most of the NZ refs seem to be inclined to let play on when some errors are made by the teams, and a few of them just do not know what a knock on is. The Aussie refs are just as bad or worse. On the whole the SA refs are no better, but I do think Marius van der Westhuizen is the pick of all of them.

It's a shame, but true that their incompetence does affect quite a few of the matches.

Hard to say the Tahs would have won had no incorrect calls been made, because there were incorrect calls on both sides.

I was amazed at the poor skills by the Crusaders in the first 20 - 30 minutes. Turned over ball like it was poison. Think the tally going into half time was something like 9 turnovers by the Crusaders to 2 for the Tahs. Was also bemused by Mounga repeatedly kicking the ball directly to Folau in the first half after he had carved them up off a kick to set up Naiyarovoro's try.

 

[kiap]

I don’t think any professional referee consciously favours one team over the other. The stuff that they happen to miss on the back of sheer incompetence can have an enormous impact on the game though as it did.

This may come as a shock to you, but bad decisions are not only due to incompetence.

Referees are biased.

It's simply human nature, and a whole field of study. Bias—and in particular, national bias—is well established in multiple studies across many sports, including rugby.

One should always be careful not to overreach in understanding what being biased means. It doesn't mean being bent or on the take. However it does mean that referee selection policies are important because it can impact significantly on the results of competition.

Neutral referees, for instance, are not just for show. There's a statistically measurable difference.