Round 10 - Reds v Chiefs, Saturday 21st April 2018 7:45pm @ Lang Park

[Rugrat]

Sir Alex worked for club and a game that could afford to let him sack players and then buy replacements at like for like value or more. They also have a shit load more of them to choose from.

 

[HJ Nelson]

A few more photos from the Reds v Chiefs game

https://www.tremainfocused.com/blog/reds-monstered-by-chiefs

 

[Scrubber2050]

Bt's pressers are very "average" and just hard to watch.

His coaching to me can now be justifiably criticised (IMHO)

There is no doubt he was one of the best exponents of a player in our game, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a quality coach.

Where to go from here ?

 

[dru]

It was a tough press to front. He did so with honesty.

Unfortunately the language is all about digging deeper and if anything, this is an element of the Reds game I think he is all over. Set piece is not too shabby either.

Issues to me are around strategy and on field organisation. Winning the collisions in itself is not successful rugby.

Thorn needs some honesty with himself, then look within his existing resources for support in these areas. Which may not be an inspiring way forward. It would still step in the right direction.

We do not want to lose him at this stage.

 

[gel]

Disappointing.​

​

 

[fatprop]

It was a tough press to front. He did so with honesty.

Unfortunately the language is all about digging deeper and if anything, this is an element of the Reds game I think he is all over. Set piece is not too shabby either.

Issues to me are around strategy and on field organisation. Winning the collisions in itself is not successful rugby.

Thorn needs some honesty with himself, then look within his existing resources for support in these areas. Which may not be an inspiring way forward. It would still step in the right direction.

We do not want to lose him at this stage.

It is pretty hard to do anything in rugby without it, start winning those and the game gets much, much easier

 

[dru]

It is pretty hard to do anything in rugby without it, start winning those and the game gets much, much easier

I wouldn't say otherwise FP - but would you say that this is the Reds primary issue right now? Maybe I'm missing something, but it honestly seems to me there are other things on the priority list.

 

[RedsHappy]

Bt's pressers are very "average" and just hard to watch.

His coaching to me can now be justifiably criticised (IMHO)

There is no doubt he was one of the best exponents of a player in our game, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a quality coach.

Where to go from here ?

What BT badly needs is close contact and support from an experienced rugby HC or (real) senior AC that has had genuine and sustained success in his career over an entire team development cycle.

This is just natural and basic when he is a rookie HC at a highly exposed pro level worsened by the Reds' terrible recent history.

Two problems present themselves: one, the QRU has no such person (just an aside: Knuckles would have been a way better mentor to BT than McGahan) and, two, they demonstrably lack the strategic courage and rugby foresight to go cap in hand to someone like a Graham Henry or a Wayne Smith and offer such a genuine QRU director of coaching deal for 2 or so years although that, or something very similar, is exactly what is required with extreme urgency. Even a Jake White could add real value.

Of course this blindingly obvious essential step will not occur. No, let's just drive the Reds/QLD pro rugby into the ground as per 2008-9 but far worse and with a far more arduous path to recovery (if recovery will prove possible, that is now debatable).

 

[fatprop]

I wouldn't say otherwise FP - but would you say that this is the Reds primary issue right now? Maybe I'm missing something, but it honestly seems to me there are other things on the priority list.

Such as?

If you aren't winning enough collisions the best 10, kicking game etc will do bugger all. You need front foot ball to get stuff done.

Tahs didn't have it and got ground into the dirt

 

[liquor box]

Sir Alex worked for club and a game that could afford to let him sack players and then buy replacements at like for like value or more. They also have a shit load more of them to choose from.

They are also a desirable club to play for.

 

[dru]

Such as?

If you aren't winning enough collisions the best 10, kicking game etc will do bugger all. You need front foot ball to get stuff done.

Tahs didn't have it and got ground into the dirt

Mate, I went through my thoughts on this earlier. [EDIT: apologies FP - not earlier but in the Reds thred.] Generally I think that the Reds under Thron are doing pretty well in the impact zone. This doesn't mean 100% superiority and there is always room for improvement, but the Reds I am watching in 2018 are miles ahead than any time since RG took the reins.

My concern is organisation and structure:
a) in the pigs in attack, they hit up well but there seems to be a lack of direction as to where, when and how to guide what is happening. Without this what I see is they can win their individual collisions all you want but it isn't enough to give that front foot. Lacks direction imo.
b) D in the backs seems to me to be lacking direction

Those two are my biggest concerns right now. It amounts to strategy.

 

[Ruggo]

Thorn needs to be objective as a coach. He has created a very childish situation with the likes of discarding players like Cooper without attempting to work with them and it has been of no value to the Reds at all. That's not good enough as a coach. He has some good strengths but he comes across as a pig headed bastard and that makes it difficult for him to develop the full package you would expect from a good coach.

The culture within the Reds organisation looks in absolute tatters and it is reflected in their performance. Don't really need a rugby man to fix that but you need somebody with runs on the board in reforming in a professional sports environment. The person who impresses me and the Reds could do far worse than getting to review and reform that culture is Paul Roos.

 

[fatprop]

Mate, I went through my thoughts on this earlier. [EDIT: apologies FP - not earlier but in the Reds thred.] Generally I think that the Reds under Thron are doing pretty well in the impact zone. This doesn't mean 100% superiority and there is always room for improvement, but the Reds I am watching in 2018 are miles ahead than any time since RG took the reins.

My concern is organisation and structure:
a) in the pigs in attack, they hit up well but there seems to be a lack of direction as to where, when and how to guide what is happening. Without this what I see is they can win their individual collisions all you want but it isn't enough to give that front foot. Lacks direction imo.
b) D in the backs seems to me to be lacking direction

Those two are my biggest concerns right now. It amounts to strategy.

I see them in transition.

I see Thorn trying to instill quality basic habits into the pigs before moving to complicate things.

The backs? I think the issue is Kerevi, they can't work out where to play their best player.

He has defending issues, can't play 13, when he plays 12 it looks average as the only option is crash ball or pass the parcel to someone else to crash ball. Real square peg, round whole issue

 

[Kenny Powers]

I see them in transition.

The backs? I think the issue is Kerevi, they can't work out where to play their best player.

He has defending issues, can't play 13, when he plays 12 it looks average as the only option is crash ball or pass the parcel to someone else to crash ball. Real square peg, round whole issue

The 'best back' can't defend at 13 and is one dimensional at 12 then he should not be regarded as your best back, well at least he wouldn't be in other rugby playing countries.

 

[Scrubber2050]

The 'best back' can't defend at 13 and is one dimensional at 12 then he should not be regarded as your best back, well at least he wouldn't be in other rugby playing countries.

People have been doing it forever.

That is, judging a player and his performance on cameo moments. Rarely do they look at performance based on ALL the skills (attack, defence, passing etc etc) and over the 80 minutes.

Too many players are put on pedestals for a great run, a great try but fail to attract any criticism for hogging the ball, missing tackles, dropping balls, shit ball security blah blah.