Toddy
Chris McKivat (8)
Haha, yeah seems like he was a wee way off. $77,551 is what it should be.
Robbie Deans
- Thread starter Scarfman
- Start date
- Status
Haha, yeah seems like he was a wee way off. $77,551 is what it should be.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Perfectly sums up GG's career in terms of factual capability.
redstragic
Alan Cameron (40)
I am not sure bringing in Link is the answer. He won't have much power to change anything or worse still, I worry they'll both be useless because some kind of bizaar power struggle will ensue. Link is too good a man to be thrown to the wolves.
I can just imagine the didn't you get the memo stile emails that would fly from Robbies assistant's smartphone to Link right now.
I can just imagine the didn't you get the memo stile emails that would fly from Robbies assistant's smartphone to Link right now.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Should be like an election loss: all positions declared vacant sing for your supper
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Langthorne
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Ok, the World Cup is now officially over for the Wallabies.
We came third. NOT SECOND. THIRD. I think it is poor form to cling onto the ridiculous IRB rankings during the World Cup. If we had made it into the final but the IRB ranking listed us as lower than second, we'd be calling ourselves at least second in the world. It is also a little disrespectful to France who will likely be second to New Zealand. We can make all the arguements in the world about how lucky France are to have made the final, but that would simply not address the issue of why we were not on that side of the draw. Last World Cup we were 5th, so for some that is a success.
I am very pleased with the effort and determination of the players. Even Quade Cooper. They really did try hard. Unfortunately, some were thrown into situations or positions they were not prepared for. They did not have sufficient guidance from their coaches, nor (because they were not selected!) the old experienced heads of Aussie rugby.
I was not in favour of sacking Deans before the World Cup. I was far from happy with his performance, but I felt he should be given the opportunity to take the team to the World Cup. I was also concerned that there might not be a better option available. It turns out that there probably were better options available, that Robbie is not a misunderstood genius (just misunderstood), that he did not have some cunning master plan that we were all missing, that he was not hiding his best backline moves until we met the All Blacks at the World Cup.
I was, and still am furious that he was reappointed for another 2 years before the World Cup - if he managed to get us into the final or even win it then I wouldn't have minded having to pay him more....but we all knew that wasn't going to happen.
Of course all of these issues have been raised before (examples below), and in some cases those who were critical of Deans' coaching were shouted down, ridiculed or treated with disdain.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/forum/threads/5302-Robbie-Deans-Report-Card?highlight=Robbie+Deans
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/forum/threads/5459-LOCKED-Time-to-Sack-Deans?highlight=Time+sack
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/deans-to-date-the-case-for-and-against/
I think the Wallabies can do better, and a better (more suitable) coach is the first step.
One last thing:
If we have to have Robbie Deans and Co for another 2 years, could we at least chip in for them to attend one of Bob Dwyer's (fuck Super rugby titles, this guy has won a world cup) coaching clinics?
We came third. NOT SECOND. THIRD. I think it is poor form to cling onto the ridiculous IRB rankings during the World Cup. If we had made it into the final but the IRB ranking listed us as lower than second, we'd be calling ourselves at least second in the world. It is also a little disrespectful to France who will likely be second to New Zealand. We can make all the arguements in the world about how lucky France are to have made the final, but that would simply not address the issue of why we were not on that side of the draw. Last World Cup we were 5th, so for some that is a success.
I am very pleased with the effort and determination of the players. Even Quade Cooper. They really did try hard. Unfortunately, some were thrown into situations or positions they were not prepared for. They did not have sufficient guidance from their coaches, nor (because they were not selected!) the old experienced heads of Aussie rugby.
I was not in favour of sacking Deans before the World Cup. I was far from happy with his performance, but I felt he should be given the opportunity to take the team to the World Cup. I was also concerned that there might not be a better option available. It turns out that there probably were better options available, that Robbie is not a misunderstood genius (just misunderstood), that he did not have some cunning master plan that we were all missing, that he was not hiding his best backline moves until we met the All Blacks at the World Cup.
I was, and still am furious that he was reappointed for another 2 years before the World Cup - if he managed to get us into the final or even win it then I wouldn't have minded having to pay him more....but we all knew that wasn't going to happen.
Of course all of these issues have been raised before (examples below), and in some cases those who were critical of Deans' coaching were shouted down, ridiculed or treated with disdain.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/forum/threads/5302-Robbie-Deans-Report-Card?highlight=Robbie+Deans
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/forum/threads/5459-LOCKED-Time-to-Sack-Deans?highlight=Time+sack
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/deans-to-date-the-case-for-and-against/
I think the Wallabies can do better, and a better (more suitable) coach is the first step.
One last thing:
If we have to have Robbie Deans and Co for another 2 years, could we at least chip in for them to attend one of Bob Dwyer's (fuck Super rugby titles, this guy has won a world cup) coaching clinics?
Good points Langers
Just to balance out the "I told you so's" though - I still maintain we were right to stick with Robbie's original tenure of 4 years. We set out with a endpoint in mind - had we changed mid stream, we could still be wondering.
Also, I think I lot of what he has been criticized for along the way, aren't necessarily the reasons why he should go. As an example - the moving on old players / bringing in the kids is not a failure in my eyes - it's what's not been done to prepare them as a total team that is. Yes, this isn't new either, but the ultimate test was whether he could pull together the pieces in the end game - the RWC - and he didn't. Only now do we know for sure he hasn't cut it.
Just to balance out the "I told you so's" though - I still maintain we were right to stick with Robbie's original tenure of 4 years. We set out with a endpoint in mind - had we changed mid stream, we could still be wondering.
Also, I think I lot of what he has been criticized for along the way, aren't necessarily the reasons why he should go. As an example - the moving on old players / bringing in the kids is not a failure in my eyes - it's what's not been done to prepare them as a total team that is. Yes, this isn't new either, but the ultimate test was whether he could pull together the pieces in the end game - the RWC - and he didn't. Only now do we know for sure he hasn't cut it.
Langthorne
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Although I wasn't happy with his work during the original 4 years, I did accept that he should be given not only the whole time to prove himself, but whichever support staff he wanted. Now that he has had that he can go elsewhere.
For the record, I'd have preferred to be utterly wrong and have won the World Cup.
I have nothing at all against young players, as long as they are up to the job. If they are not, for whatever reason, there were other more experienced options. The three old heads I suggested (apart from the shock omission of Giteau, but we now know it was a personal issue there) were Waugh, Baxter and Mortlock - given the number of squad members who had very little playing time, I think they could have been accommodated, and would have performed well if called upon.
For the record, I'd have preferred to be utterly wrong and have won the World Cup.
I have nothing at all against young players, as long as they are up to the job. If they are not, for whatever reason, there were other more experienced options. The three old heads I suggested (apart from the shock omission of Giteau, but we now know it was a personal issue there) were Waugh, Baxter and Mortlock - given the number of squad members who had very little playing time, I think they could have been accommodated, and would have performed well if called upon.
FANATIC
Fred Wood (13)
sorry late to see this post but while I may be informed, I doubt I know more about rugby politics than the next person.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
Why is Dwyer thought of so highly? His articles on the Front page are pretty basic stuff and he refuses to see any viewpoint other than his own. He may have won a world cup but he was also in charge of the wallabies at what I would consider our worst world cup performance.
People excuse him of that because of injuries to the wallabies at the time - I doubt his injury list was anywhere near what the current mob have leading up to and during the world cup.
I am not excusing deans for his hand in our failure to make the final but I do accept that circumstances haven't helped all that much. Many on this site, myself included noted in the lead up to the world cup the wallabies would only have a chance with luck on the injury side. I suspect we had more injuries than any other team:
1 first choice not available
2 second choice not back at full fitness yet and first choice having to pull out the day of the crucial pool game
3 who I suspect was first choice not available until the eve of the rwc and only just regaining full fitness now
4 no real issues
5 no real issues
6 first choice out for full s15 season
7 first choice out on day of crucial pool match
8 likely first choice out
9 no real issues
10 no real issue until tonight
11 first choice broken thumb
12 first choice shoulder issue
13 possible first choice broken cheekbone
14 no real issue
15 first choice dodgy hammy
So i reckon we have had ten players that were either first choice or should have been pushing for first choice with injuries a short time before the rwc or during it. That is significant.
People excuse him of that because of injuries to the wallabies at the time - I doubt his injury list was anywhere near what the current mob have leading up to and during the world cup.
I am not excusing deans for his hand in our failure to make the final but I do accept that circumstances haven't helped all that much. Many on this site, myself included noted in the lead up to the world cup the wallabies would only have a chance with luck on the injury side. I suspect we had more injuries than any other team:
1 first choice not available
2 second choice not back at full fitness yet and first choice having to pull out the day of the crucial pool game
3 who I suspect was first choice not available until the eve of the rwc and only just regaining full fitness now
4 no real issues
5 no real issues
6 first choice out for full s15 season
7 first choice out on day of crucial pool match
8 likely first choice out
9 no real issues
10 no real issue until tonight
11 first choice broken thumb
12 first choice shoulder issue
13 possible first choice broken cheekbone
14 no real issue
15 first choice dodgy hammy
So i reckon we have had ten players that were either first choice or should have been pushing for first choice with injuries a short time before the rwc or during it. That is significant.
Langthorne
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Aside from injuries, the other established excuses for any (apparent) failings on the part of Robbie Deans are:
- our players aren't good enough
- our players are too inexperienced
- the referees are all against us
- it is all John Connolly's fault
- it is all Eddie Jone's fault
- our players aren't good enough
- our players are too inexperienced
- the referees are all against us
- it is all John Connolly's fault
- it is all Eddie Jone's fault
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
There are a number of reasons Bob Dwyer is thought of so highly: one is that he rebirthed the "flat alignment" theory in relation to backline play. If you trawl (not troll) through the threads discussing the ins and outs of Quade Cooper's performance during the RWC and the way in which Berrick Barnes played last night when QC (Quade Cooper) went off you will see that there is a lot reference to how deep each stood at various points of their game and how the effectiveness of the team was directly related how shallow they were.
When we think our backs have played well generally they have held a flatter alignment than when we think they have played badly.
It remains an important pillar of our game: Dwyer took it from Randwick, where Cyril Towers was its high priest, and brought it to the Wallabies and, by spruiking it, to the rest of us. Towers had picked it up from the 1927-28 Waratah's capatain A C Johnnie Wallace, as I undertsand it.
The fact that 1995 was not good overlooks a whole range of things - including the emerging threat to amateurism.
finally, the fact that Dwyer's stuff is considered basic by you is a virtue: it's a simple game - the object is that by carrying the ball you score tries. The closer you are to the tryline and the straighter you run towards it the quicker you score a try. The rest is fluff.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
so, if the ABs find out that they're going to be $22k short do you reckon they might dog it?
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
I see Eddie Jones has had a good crack at Robbie in todays Courier Mail. Basically saying he got a crap coaching crew he has picked to work with him. Not sure if that right or wrong, or how good RD is as a coach (though I suspect he is good, just not quite as good as some think), I will say what I have said since before Wallabies picked him up, he is not a good selector in my opinion. I do agree with Jones on one point , and have read similar comments in ex player's books, he uses an awful lot of complicated words to say something simple, and I wonder if it sometimes confuses players??
Scotty
David Codey (61)
Dwyer's overly flat alignment was a big part of the 1995 downfall. There has to be a balance. It was even flatter than what Cooper does (and I am one of those who talked about barnes standing too deep).
Dwyer took an experienced team with fantastic talent and came away with a terrible result. Deans took an inexperienced team with fantastic talent and came away with an average result.
Dwyer is therefore the coaching messiah?
Not to mention that in almost every article he infers the referees are biased against the wallabies!
Dwyer took an experienced team with fantastic talent and came away with a terrible result. Deans took an inexperienced team with fantastic talent and came away with an average result.
Dwyer is therefore the coaching messiah?
Not to mention that in almost every article he infers the referees are biased against the wallabies!
No4918
John Hipwell (52)
Why shouldnt Eddie have a go at Dingo? Plenty on here are unimpressed with him and im surprised there hasnt been more in the media questioning him. The defensive centre pairing proved a complete failure even if we won a TN. The TN was against weak SA team and one full strength in there first game for some time plus the kiwis helped us by sending a 2ndXV to SA and still nearly won. If you believe most of our journalists Cooper was the only wallaby to have a bad tournament and lost it for us all by himself.
Er, I coulda swore there was a World Cup in there somewhere?
FANATIC
Fred Wood (13)
If we think the Deans selection process is unsettling as fans, just imagine how those in Camp Wallaby feel.
Back in 2010 Eddie Jones asked this question of Deans "Can Deans coach the Aussies to beat a culture he is part of?"
Deans is an All Black through and through in his heart and head and the answer is a big fat NO in my books. He may be a good coach for a NZ side, but he does not 'get' aussie rugby culture and wants to reinvent it to suit the Deans Experiment.
Eddie does have a way with words, and as a coach sacked due to the Wallabies win loss ratio I do think he is well positioned to ask questions about why Deans has the gig for another two years.
"New Zealand is famous for its wool. Deans and his ARU spin team must have brought plenty over from NZ, covering everyone's eyes in the process"
nicely put
and yes Eddie the Wallabies do lack tactical expertise.
Schadenfreude
John Solomon (38)
I wouldn't necessarily be against reinventing the wallabies. It worked for the Reds, why not the national team?
Bowside
Peter Johnson (47)
Fast Eddie posed the question in the paper this morning: provided Deans doesn't fall on his sword, who should be his assistants going forward?
The ARU have burnt their bridges with the two best candidates for the forwards coaching job - and both of them are now in charge of provincial teams. I honestly have no idea about scrum coaches other than the fact that results would show our scrum is not what it should be. I think blake is doing an alright job with the defence but he is changing too much around in order to accommodate for QC (Quade Cooper); In any case I expect this will improve going forward as QC (Quade Cooper) will injured and as such the team will revert to a more classical structure. I know deans wont appoint a backline coach, but a dual kicking/highball coach is a must. The other thing I think this team needs is to be surrounded by mentors - former test greats who can just be a presence in the dressing room and at the odd training session. The do this very well in state of origin and many coaches swear by it as a motivational tool.
The ARU have burnt their bridges with the two best candidates for the forwards coaching job - and both of them are now in charge of provincial teams. I honestly have no idea about scrum coaches other than the fact that results would show our scrum is not what it should be. I think blake is doing an alright job with the defence but he is changing too much around in order to accommodate for QC (Quade Cooper); In any case I expect this will improve going forward as QC (Quade Cooper) will injured and as such the team will revert to a more classical structure. I know deans wont appoint a backline coach, but a dual kicking/highball coach is a must. The other thing I think this team needs is to be surrounded by mentors - former test greats who can just be a presence in the dressing room and at the odd training session. The do this very well in state of origin and many coaches swear by it as a motivational tool.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
If he does anything Dwyer implies: you infer.
so you just discount 1991 do you? and the fact that dwyer got them from the jones fiasco in 87 to a win in 91?
and the fact that he got them credibility in the early 80s - before being sabotaged by QLD so jones would take over the team he had built.
You ignore the fact the team of talent was built by Dwyer - he pulled Kearns from Randwick reserve grade: like or hate him as a commentator you cant criticise his performance as a player (except for his dalliance with the world rugby circus) Horan and Little were picked as unknowns. Egerton was a club fullback who played on the wing at RWC 1991. I think he may have unearthed McKenzie and got hiim to move from Victoria to NSW - admittedly to play for Randwick (Grrr).
I think Dwyer has the runs on the board and, unless your rod McQueen, he's got more on the board than you.
His one error was not to notice me in his first stint as Wallaby coach.
- Status