Robbie Deans

[Scarfman]

Gits shows his lack of class. Still, he is justifibaly pissed off - he should have been in the squad.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't think losing to the ABs was a disaster, but I do think the poor level of play in the tournament was very disappointing. When you get right down to it, we played one good half of attacking football against Italy and two halves of wonderful defense against South Africa. That sucks for a RWC campaign.

I agree. I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that Cooper had a horrible RWC and Genia wasn't much better. Combined with a bunch of injuries, it was never going to be easy.

The only one of our stars who really played to form was Pocock and he missed our third most important game due to injury.

Stephen Moore who has been such a key player over the last year was also down on form.

 

[Richo]

Plus Rocky and Samo both lacking consistency and Kepu and Alexander backsliding on the scrum development of the 3N.

 

[waratahjesus]

A question for people.

With the Twitter stuff,

Is Ewen being a coach or a father figure?

And also

Has Deans done Cooper a disservice by not hooking him when he was going bad, his form wasn't going to magically get better, leaving him out there sends the message he is untouchable and gives a lack of insentive to work harder.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

You can single out Gitts if it makes you feel better but....
There is no doubt a lot of players are not saying what they think about the Deans Experiment with Australian Rugby and ARU's JON.
I look forward to hearing more from these, when Deans and JON are gone.

any names?
i find that an interesting comment especially when you look at the sheer number of players who resigned with the ARU this year. to me that signals faith in the system and the management as opposed to a lack of it.
Why did Sharpe not go over seas? he's nearing the end of his career.
Elsom?
or any of these guys
Ben Alexander / Brumbies
Adam Ashley-Cooper / NSW Waratahs
Berrick Barnes / NSW Waratahs
Kurtley Beale / Melbourne Rebels
Matt Hodgson / Western Force
Rob Horne / NSW Waratahs
James Horwill / Queensland Reds
Ben McCalman / Western Force
Drew Mitchell / NSW Waratahs
Stephen Moore / Brumbies
Dean Mumm / NSW Waratahs
Wycliff Palu / NSW Waratahs
Tatafu Polota-Nau / NSW Waratahs
Nathan Sharpe / Western Force
Lachie Turner / NSW Waratahs
Ben Daley / Queensland Reds
Quade Cooper / Queensland Reds
James O’Connor / Melbourne Rebels
James Slipper / Queensland Reds
Rocky Elsom / NSW Waratahs
seems there's a contradiction between them resigning and your talk of player discontent.

 

[fatprop]

Plus Rocky and Samo both lacking consistency and Kepu and Alexander backsliding on the scrum development of the 3N.

I still think there is solid improvement, but improvement is never purely linear, the continual collapsing is disappearing but there is still more work to do.

 

[mark_s]

I still think there is solid improvement, but improvement is never purely linear, the continual collapsing is disappearing but there is still more work to do.

I thought some of our scrums were quite decent on the weekend. Some of the issues were with clearing the ball from the back of the scrum, something that we also struggled with against Ireland. Also, I thought there were a couple of scrums in the second half were the AB's were charging, these sometimes get called up and reset, sometimes not. We need to be smart enough to be ready for it.

 

[Dan54]

While I not into debate whether Deans should or should not coach Wallabies, I will always remember the gist of what Tana Umaga said when asked how he felt about John Mitchell and Deans losing their AB jobs after 2003, it was along the lines of ,I don't feel sorry for them, they never cared about players. I will see if I can find the comment somewhere if I get the energy. Also the thing I did wonder, when JON resigned Deans until 2013 it was supposed to stop NZRU headhunting Deans if ABs had bad WC, I always understood that Deans was more or less told when he missed ABs head coaching job after 2007, he was told he was not even 2nd in line, and basically a long way from getting it.

 

[vidiot]

Has Deans done Cooper a disservice by not hooking him when he was going bad, his form wasn't going to magically get better, leaving him out there sends the message he is untouchable and gives a lack of insentive to work harder.

It did get better. Effort wasn't the problem on Sunday. Things didn't fall for him, the kickoff went out by a foot and he can't have tried any harder to catch that high ball, it's the sort of thing that trying harder doesn't fix. Then it started to click.

Pulling him was definitely an option, but so was showing faith.

In the end, I reckon the best thing for Quade was being on the field. May not have been the best for the wallabies on the night, though I don't think it mattered who was kicking it back to the kiwis, it was coming back with interest even with Barnes pumping the corners.

 

[Riptide]

While I not into debate whether Deans should or should not coach Wallabies, I will always remember the gist of what Tana Umaga said when asked how he felt about John Mitchell and Deans losing their AB jobs after 2003, it was along the lines of ,I don't feel sorry for them, they never cared about players. I will see if I can find the comment somewhere if I get the energy. Also the thing I did wonder, when JON resigned Deans until 2013 it was supposed to stop NZRU headhunting Deans if ABs had bad WC, I always understood that Deans was more or less told when he missed ABs head coaching job after 2007, he was told he was not even 2nd in line, and basically a long way from getting it.

A few points. Deans felt he had the votes going into that fateful NZRFU Board meeting to determine the next coach. Deans himself was told by a board member that he had the votes. It is widely understood that Cooper actually gave the strongest presentation, that Henry articulated quite forcefully that his experienced team would benefit from the loss in Cardiff and, like Woodward etc, be better positioned to win the next one. Deans had not even considered who his coaching team would be and so did not respond to that question and it seems some of his other answers were less than clear as well. Henry swung a few votes around, and much to his own surprise was named AB coach.

 

[fatprop]

A few points. Deans felt he had the votes going into that fateful NZRFU Board meeting to determine the next coach. Deans himself was told by a board member that he had the votes. It is widely understood that Cooper actually gave the strongest presentation, that Henry articulated quite forcefully that his experienced team would benefit from the loss in Cardiff and, like Woodward etc, be better positioned to win the next one. Deans had not even considered who his coaching team would be and so did not respond to that question and it seems some of his other answers were less than clear as well. Henry swung a few votes around, and much to his own surprise was named AB coach.

I feel the same about Aus right now

 

[Riptide]

Deans has not enjoyed a great World Cup. The loss to Ireland revealed selection issues (no back-up 7) and a naivete in terms of how the Irish would play. The team didn't seem equipped to play either Ireland or the conditions well that night.

The Boks should have put the Wallabies to the sword. The Wallabies were two marginal called forward passes away from being eliminated, and we have all seen those not being called.

Against NZ, the Wallabies primary tactic of kicking high to Jane & Dagg clearly was not working and yet the Wallabies persisted? Why no change in tactics early? Why did the Wallabies not commit more players to the attacking ruck? While it can be argued that this NZ team are just better than anyone in most facets of the game, Deans still took a team built to attack with speed and the Wallabies scored only one try in their 3 matches against top opposition. Against NZ, Deans opted for a high ball kicking game, like he had so often in his big games coaching the 'Saders and Henry owned him. Deans did not utilize his players well.



Tactically, I feel Deans was out-coached on a few occasions but it's easy to say it when there is a loss.

 

[vidiot]

Henry articulated quite forcefully that his experienced team would benefit from the loss in Cardiff and, like Woodward etc, be better positioned to win the next one.

You can see how that would convince.

For the wallabies, not building on this experience - rebuilding from scratch - would be throwing the baby out with the bath water. Having said that, I don't think Deans is necessarily the only or the best person to do it. And the crapulence of our restarts needs to be addressed aggressively. Sorry Jim.

 

[Riptide]

I feel the same about Aus right now

I disagree. I dont think the Wallabies were "ambushed" like the AB's.

The Wallabies simply havent played that well this RWC. They were beaten by a much lower ranked Irish team who had targeted the Wallabies with a limited game plane built around gaining an ascendancy at scrum time and flooding the breakdown. Deans didn't bring a back-up 7. Tactically, he has been off the pace and I, for one, dont believe that he has 'learned' enough to warrant being given the job for another 4 years. I want Link to lead us to the next RWC, even if Deans keeps his roll through the Lions series.

 

[redstragic]

There is a blessing with this loss. This team has not achieved everything in the game yet. They are young and hopefully can use this to stay together and improve.

This has probably been said a million times. Apologies if it has, I have not read the rest of the thread.

 

[Athilnaur]

Inclined to agree Riptide. Though I also question the lack of effective teamwork in breakdowns.

Joubert made it crystal clear the attacking team was going to win them. We needed to cut our losses and run tight pods of 3 at them, retain possession and build pressure.

We showed signs of it, but too little, and again our kicking play was almost always an exercise in giving away possession under a ref who heavily and properly controls breakdowns.

That said overall our team selections and player development was excellent from where we were in 08. Maybe it really is the team is just too green.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think that Jim Williams is a glaring problem amongst our coaching staff. Our lineouts were horrendous against the Springboks and our restarts have been bad for years.

It's hard to know who is to be blamed for all our tactical problems. The plan might have been to box kick from certain positions, but the players are also told to play what's in front of them. I lay plenty of blame of Genia for persisting with box kicks when he wasn't even kicking them well and we were just turning over the ball.

Our biggest problem was that players in key positions didn't play well during the RWC.

 

[RedsHappy]

A few points. Deans felt he had the votes going into that fateful NZRFU Board meeting to determine the next coach. Deans himself was told by a board member that he had the votes. It is widely understood that Cooper actually gave the strongest presentation, that Henry articulated quite forcefully that his experienced team would benefit from the loss in Cardiff and, like Woodward etc, be better positioned to win the next one. Deans had not even considered who his coaching team would be and so did not respond to that question and it seems some of his other answers were less than clear as well. Henry swung a few votes around, and much to his own surprise was named AB coach.

As a number of us whom have taken an interest in assessing the calibre of Deans via the calibre of his chosen coaching team would attest, and noting the highlighted phrase above, it could credibly be argued that little has changed since that (for Deans) fateful 2007 day in front of the NZRU.

 

[Loki74]

I think that Jim Williams is a glaring problem amongst our coaching staff. Our lineouts were horrendous against the Springboks and our restarts have been bad for years.

It's hard to know who is to be blamed for all our tactical problems. The plan might have been to box kick from certain positions, but the players are also told to play what's in front of them. I lay plenty of blame of Genia for persisting with box kicks when he wasn't even kicking them well and we were just turning over the ball.

Our biggest problem was that players in key positions didn't play well during the RWC.

I really wonder about the quality of the forwards coaching. Because it seems like they can't focus on more than one facet of the game at any time. So they can get themselves up for a decent scrum performance, but forget to counter ruck for the game. Or a big counter rucking game, but forget how to run their lineout. Or lineouts are fine and scrums fall back. Now I am far from being an expert, but you would think that they would be able to get the basics right for every game. Solid scrum, clear the ball, win your own lineouts, contest (at least a few) of the other team's lineout, get to breakdowns in numbers and contest.

 

[Jumpers]

This is all so true. Conspiracy theory?

Seriously, why the fuck was he re-signed, stupid decision when you have Ewen McKenzie as a candidate.

McKenzie hasn't had enough experience as yet as 1 Super Rugby title don't mean shit! But he'll make a very good coach no doubt.