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Robbie Deans

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hedgo

Frank Nicholson (4)
Yeah, they did. I was a "hoper". I knew his form with injuries. Who else did we have at 8, who was a realistic Test option, who was not in the squad? I mean, who is being rushed over to replace him? It was a "thin" position for us.

agreed it was a thin position but there is more than just a touch of the wishful thinker about robbie. i genuinely believe he lives in his head rather than in the real world. i have been a fence sitter with regard to his capacities until relatively recently but there are just too many bizarre things going on to ignore it any more. too many blokes out of position too much unsubstantiated faith placed in players' abilities. i guarantee you chisolm would have made the squad if he hadn't hurt himself and that says it all
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
My wife is astounded that a cure has been found for a chronic Rugby addiction that had spanned over thirty years. It came in the form of a superb provincial coach who may our may not have benefitted inordinately from perhaps the best Rugby system in the world. A coach whose previous term as an assistant test coach earned him derision from many in his own land, a coach who has earned and learnt his way to the worst statistical and actual record (in achieving record losses and losing firsts) in not only pro. History but ever.

I have been cured to the degree I haven't even been able to summon enough angst to comment on the idiotic selections for this weeks team, our even watch the whole USA game yet I extracted the whole Fiji Samoa, Eng Georgia games. The Master Coach has managed to totally disengage me from a team I have followed religiously for so long I am left empty like a jilted lover, and I see no end in sight with both the Master and Commisar ensuring theregime survives to destroy the rare event of a Lions tour.

Up pitchforks boys time for a revolution!!!

:nta: I have never watched because of the coach, I watch because they are my team, through thick and thin. (hey I am a Waratahs supporter)

To me, our "good" years have been generally been encompassed by more years of mediocrity than we choose to remember.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
:nta: I have never watched because of the coach, I watch because they are my team, through thick and thin. (hey I am a Waratahs supporter)

To me, our "good" years have been generally been encompassed by more years of mediocrity than we choose to remember.
oh the sanctity of the follower and blind faith.

I love Rugby. I rebelled against Hickey's reign at the Tahs because he veils the side to a narrow focus of minimising losses/points against.

I despise the Deans system simply becauae it is a hollow facade with no substance. He is full of Weasel words, (Scarfman 2011), but whenever his Wallabies side is placed under pressure they capitulate. There is no game plan apart from chuck it to the x men, beyond comprhension selections, total ineptitude in bench usage and to top it off in four seasons of campaigns he has never once taken any degree of responsibility for the abominable results. I agree with those who say the coach doesn't play the game, but he is the general setting the tempo of the team and providing them with the tools to suceed.

So I dont follow the coach either, I am a Wallaby and Tah by birth and choice, but I am not blind in it. Deans is a failure as a test coach by any measure and no amount of sugar coating and looking on the bright side will change the facts that this side has seriously under performed aided in part by rediculous selection policies.

Wryly amusing and frustrating to see my preRWC prediction of the injuries excuse being trotted out.
 

grievous

Johnnie Wallace (23)
I think there is a distinct lake of bottle in the Oz players these days, you cant blame the coach 100% for that Ireland effort. Not one hardman/enforcer in the squad, others do it .....and get away with it, why dont we? Because our players get picked from an amby pamby private school system that holds up high young backs with a great pass, pace, step and hairdo but doesnt create the forwards that want to kill people. We seem to waiting for the next PI born to immigrants because we know they are born to tackle and hit hard, yet still they dont seem to make the impact they do in NZ teams.
Love to see a Poido, Brial...gee thats all I know in the modern era...type player come back.
That said I have lost faith in Deans a bit, the next two weeks will tell me if the next two years will be more misery for this long suffering Wallaby supporter
 

grievous

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Mmmmm...plenty of guts but 6ft under 100kg forwards can hardly be enforcers in the modern era, too small
 

Swarley

Bob Loudon (25)
Mmmmm...plenty of guts but 6ft under 100kg forwards can hardly be enforcers in the modern era, too small

Jerry Collins?

It's a sad day when Peter de Villiers is a better coach than Robbie Deans. But it might just be the case after Dingo's disgraceful display during the RWC. We have sacrificed 4 years of glory in the name of "rebuilding towards the RWC" and it seems like it's all for nothing. Our first loss to Scotland since 1982, a near loss against an weakened Italy, a record losing margin against the Springboks, two losses to England in 2010 (and two conceded penalty tries for scrums in the sole victory), a weakened scrum, a weakened disciplinarian system, a loss to Samoa- yes, a loss to Samoa. I'll give Deans the 3N victory- although we were the only nation not to play a 'B' team all tournament and had a favourable draw, we still won with an excellent display in Brisbane. But it all returned to normal with a loss to the Irish. A game we didn't even turn up for. Now, in our last game before a daunting semi-final encounter with the Springboks, we're resting arguably our best player, taking two hookers and two halfbacks on the bench and playing our only top-class Number Eight on the wing. Well done Deans.
 

Cardiffblue

Jim Lenehan (48)
Missed the start of this thread but 'spose (just 'spose) you lost this weekend. Would Deans survive the outrage?


From a personal perspective, it might be said that I'd like to see Deans freed up to take over from GH so we keep Cement Head at the helm
 
H

H...

Guest
WHat the fuck do you people expect Deans to do about the scrum, exactly?

Didn't Andrew Blades (whose word I am happy to take on such matters) say that the scrum won't improve much until they fix it at school level?
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
WHat the fuck do you people expect Deans to do about the scrum, exactly?

Didn't Andrew Blades (whose word I am happy to take on such matters) say that the scrum won't improve much until they fix it at school level?

He did it already. He made Axel Foley the forwards coach and our scrum was cleaning up the NH scrums big time. Then he unfixed it by dumping Foley because Foley didn't agree with everything he said and the scrum went back to excrement. That's the history of Deans rule. He'd rather have incompetent yes-men who don't argue with his plans.

Our best coaching team would be McKenzie, Foley, McKay or Gaffney. We won't see it till 2014 at the earliest and O'Neill will probably bless Nucifora before he retires anyway.
 

Riptide

Dave Cowper (27)
He did it already. He made Axel Foley the forwards coach and our scrum was cleaning up the NH scrums big time. Then he unfixed it by dumping Foley because Foley didn't agree with everything he said and the scrum went back to excrement. That's the history of Deans rule. He'd rather have incompetent yes-men who don't argue with his plans.

Our best coaching team would be McKenzie, Foley, McKay or Gaffney. We won't see it till 2014 at the earliest and O'Neill will probably bless Nucifora before he retires anyway.

Keep Gaffney well away from the Wallabies. Watch the Tahs succumb to a flacid attack next season..
 
S

snowman

Guest
He did it already. He made Axel Foley the forwards coach and our scrum was cleaning up the NH scrums big time. Then he unfixed it by dumping Foley because Foley didn't agree with everything he said and the scrum went back to excrement. That's the history of Deans rule. He'd rather have incompetent yes-men who don't argue with his plans.

Our best coaching team would be McKenzie, Foley, McKay or Gaffney. We won't see it till 2014 at the earliest and O'Neill will probably bless Nucifora before he retires anyway.

The wallabies scrum under foley was a joke. Dont remeber the 2007 world cup? I wouldnt call Patricio Noreaga an incompetent yes man, would you?
 

rsea

Darby Loudon (17)
Deans better make better use of the bench this weekend or I'll be getting out the pitch fork
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
In Potential Celebration of the Calibre of Australian Rugby Players

One thing that can be said with confidence if our Wallabies win their QF this Sunday: the victory will be overwhelmingly due to the personal calibre and fortitude of the individual players, and nothing else.

Just looking analytically at the Wallabies RWC 2011 games so far, and most Wallabies' games of recent vintage, there is absolutely no objective evidence of coaching-led quality in any aspect of modern Wallaby play.

Forwards: rarely if ever play as a genuine, sustained for 80, powerhouse pack with team integration, complete technical skill, and high intensity at the breakdown, or in most other states of forwards-driven play. Pocock has to function as saviour at virtually every turn, every other forward displays either personal inconsistency or too-high levels of individual, not linked, activity. As a group, our forwards typically provide appalling levels of consistent concentration and intensity lapse that, simply, loses games, or places reckless levels of destructive pressure on our backs in general play.

Scrum: been a fragile and unpredictable entity since Foley 'left' in late 2008. After 4 years of Deans' scrum expertise and guidance, this RWC has categorically proven that our scrum is at best ranked as of 6-7/10 quality, and very far from world-class. And, via penalties, it can actually or potentially, lose games.

Backs: the used-to-be-famous Wallaby backs attribute of intelligent, well-drilled ensemble moves coupled with high skill in moves off the set-piece has largely vaporised in the current Wallabies. What we typically see now is slick backs integration only vs weak teams with non-threatening defence. Outside that, we see erratic draw and pass, or no pass and fail, or poor ensemble work that betrays a complete lack of disciplined, technically adept backs coaching. Our 'Xs' are left to fend for themselves with pressured hero plays that often fail, unsurprisingly. We have no current backs coach, Deans has, with characteristic hubris, assumed this role himself and it shows, utterly.

Kicking: hardly needs mentioning. Unlike all other major teams, we have retained no full-time kicking coach and the stats of all Wallaby kickers are way beneath the levels that are proven as essential to win a RWC. JO'C is excellent in just some random games, then we have the next dramatic lapse in success %s. The importance of kicking consistency and high success %s at RWCs has been known for 10 years or more.

Mental skill and culture: a team with well developed mental skills and 'hard mind' can sustain full concentration, productive aggression and intensity of application game after game and can turn adversity into victory, coming from behind. The modern Wallabies do this so rarely that we fans react like thrilled parents upon discovering that little Jimmy has at least got one A mark this year, knowing full well that we won't see that again for a long time to come. And every time, we're proved right.

Defence: it can be argued that Blake has done a sound job to get Wallaby defence standards back from the bad lapses of 2009-10 and to the standard of defence the Wallabies were renown for in the 1990s and early 2000s.

In summary, if we win this QF (or indeed RWC), it will not be through any form of demonstrable coached-in excellence or capability that clearly arises via the sustained application of elite coaching skill. It will be solely due to the fact that we possess some wonderfully talented rugby players in this country that may just be inspired and brilliant enough to draw from their deepest reserves of pride and raw talent and, to their great credit, find their own way to win, and it will be rightly possessed and done just by them, and by no one else above them.
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
Wait, so even if we win Deans doesn't win? Seems a little unfair, RH. I'm not a big fan of the bloke, but he did very well in the 3N. If he pulls off a win in NZ, I will happily admit that he's done a bang-up job.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I think there is a distinct lake of bottle in the Oz players these days, you cant blame the coach 100% for that Ireland effort. Not one hardman/enforcer in the squad, others do it .....and get away with it, why dont we? Because our players get picked from an amby pamby private school system that holds up high young backs with a great pass, pace, step and hairdo but doesnt create the forwards that want to kill people. We seem to waiting for the next PI born to immigrants because we know they are born to tackle and hit hard, yet still they dont seem to make the impact they do in NZ teams.
Love to see a Poido, Brial...gee thats all I know in the modern era...type player come back.
That said I have lost faith in Deans a bit, the next two weeks will tell me if the next two years will be more misery for this long suffering Wallaby supporter

Amen. I can't stand the private school culture in our game.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Wait, so even if we win Deans doesn't win? Seems a little unfair, RH. I'm not a big fan of the bloke, but he did very well in the 3N. If he pulls off a win in NZ, I will happily admit that he's done a bang-up job.

Thanks Richo. Not 'unfair' in my book. I just honestly mate see such little hard evidence (as distinct from sycophantic media hype) of the types of elite team play in the Wallabies that we could ascribe as due to really good coaching, or to excellent coaching leadership in general. I just can't find it, or can't see it. I saw it in the Reds 2010 and 2011, gave consistent credit for it here. Saw it in the exemplary Tahs' forwards (and general defence) work 2010 and 2011, and gave credit also here. I reckon even rank passionate amateurs like me can pick the signs (when they occur in consistent patterns) of really good rugby coaching, either in whole teams, or in specialist parts of a team. You'll recall I was keen to give Deans what I then termed as provisional credit for Bled 2 2011, but was then horrified at the unjustified and appalling lapses in almost all aspects of Wallaby play v Ireland, and then again, almost worse, v Russia 2H. These outcomes are simply intolerably mediocre, after 4 years of postponed gratification and endless ARU and RD assurances to Wallaby fans. And when Deans and Genia started declaiming post-Ireland as 'now we are learning about RWCs and what they might entail' when we were told this RWC 2011 was virtually all Deans was dedicating himself to since 2009, I was apoplectic frankly.

Re this year's 3N. A very limited trophy IMO. Both SA and NZ seriously compromised their 3N teams for pre-RWC purposes, and the number of games was heavily reduced as a % of normal. You just can't therefore hold this up, objectively, as a major Wallaby breakthrough or such like. What was good was the sequential win away v a good (thought rusty) SA team, and an excellent win vs the ABs at the fortress.
 
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