Robbie Deans

[Inside Shoulder]

There is a darker side here: it is almost inconceivable that half way through a world cup cycle, in the absence of a major scandal, we would choose to replace the coach. Therefore i reckon Deans is here for 2015.
Now this suits O'Neill because he wants a yes man coaching the wallabies and, but for extending Deans contract, Deans would be doing whatever ex All Black fullbacks do. So Deans owes O'Neill.
This give O'Neill even more power.
The things that we deal with here in the real rugby world of junior clubs with no money, district clubs falling over etc. etc. might have something to say about the way our game is run if some new bloke came in with a bottom to top long term plan. A new face might listen and think that the only way to deepen the resolve of the Wallabies is to address structural issues in the code generally.
This doesn't suit O'Neill because it could dilute his power base.
As I have said elsewhere: we own the game. We play it, we coach we it, we love it, we make it. We should have the right to call the tune - it has been built on our passion.
Deans should have to reapply.
He is a man of principle so I hold out some hope that he will.

 

[Tp87]

Then I'd suggest that the problem is systemic, and rooted in deeper problems in Australian rugby beyond what goes on at the test level.

I agree that there is some truth to what you say. However, quite a few of the problems the current crop of wallabies face could be fixed with better structures, better coaching, better team selection, use of the bench, better strategy and tactics etc . I agree that the some of these issues will continue to plague wallabies sides and are more deep rooted than just a coach and need to be addressed a more grass roots level. Yet some of the most glaring issues with this current wallabies side face could at least be mitigated or even solved with better player management and more effective tactics/strategy employed. Deans has demonstrated none of this during his reign and that is the crux of the issue.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Based on this weekends results, when the chips are down, and you are playing for keeps, passion is everything, technical stuff is well technical stuff.

The Welsh will never understand the haka, but by god can they sing. The Kiwis can not sing, nor can they surf as well as us. A Private School kid from the Eastern suburbs will never completely understand Rooty Hill High School kids. And so on.
Under extreme stress of RWC knockout you need to appeal to the inner mongrel of the players.

Head Coaches must be from the home nation. P Divvers may have been a clown, but he was the Saffers clown, and that meant something more than having Eddie Jones as head coach.

Bottom Line, Robbie is not one of us, never has been, never will be. Would be OK as assistant coach, but xenophobia rules for appointing National Coaches.

 

[darkhorse]

Bottom Line, Robbie is not one of us, never has been, never will be. Would be OK as assistant coach, but xenophobia rules for appointing National Coaches.

Warren Gatland seems to be doing ok.

I would give my left nut to have Graham Henry as our Coach. Before you start, Link would be good also.

 

[Bullrush]

Anyone who has read any of my posts on Robbie Deans knows that I'm not a fan of him BUT......if you're an Aussie and you are pulling on the Wallaby jersey to play in the semi-final of the RWC and you need the coach to bring out your inner mongrel....take the jersey off, apologise for ever touching it and possibly jinxing it with soft-balledness, walk out of the sheds, give yourself the a massive upper-cut and don't ever dream of playing for the country again.

That has nothing to do with Robbie and everything to do with the player.....full f**kn stop.

 

[darkhorse]

Look I'm sick of Deans, but blaming him for Simmons being in the squad is a bit rich. The Wallabies have always been 1 injury away from having some muppet step in. To be fair to Deans he has given numerous players chances in the second row: Mumm, Chisholm, MMM. They all were average. That wasn't his fault as coach, they are just average players and that's because Australia doesn't have depth.

If you look at the 2007 RWC squad and the 2011 RWC squad, honestly which one looks stronger? Sure Deans made some perplexing decisions and I would be happy to see him go, but he took a squad that was on its last legs and rebuilt it. Only in the last year have we had a squad that looked remotely like it could have the talent to win it. If you look at history the odds were against us. You need more than talent to win a RWC, you also need experience. Every team that has won it has had a large core of players that lost in a previous world cup. We now have that squad.

I won't deny that Deans has done a poor job at times, but I am getting sick of people criticising every decision he makes and not giving him credit when in hindsight those decision were justified. Picking JOC (James O'Connor), Beale, Cooper, Kepu, Alexander and Pockock well before they were ready did ruin our test %, but I am confident we would have been knocked out in the quarters if he didn't pick these guys. We are nation that has always overachieved and getting into the semis is a good effort considering our playing stocks. If blokes like Mumm, Chisholm, Henderson and Hardman - Players someone like Connolly would surely have picked - had gone to the RWC we would have been in much worse shape.

 

[pete88]

Anyone who has read any of my posts on Robbie Deans knows that I'm not a fan of him BUT......if you're an Aussie and you are pulling on the Wallaby jersey to play in the semi-final of the RWC and you need the coach to bring out your inner mongrel....take the jersey off, apologise for ever touching it and possibly jinxing it with soft-balledness, walk out of the sheds, give yourself the a massive upper-cut and don't ever dream of playing for the country again.

That has nothing to do with Robbie and everything to do with the player.....full f**kn stop.

I agree, but I don't think the Wallabies had an issue with wanting it.

Whether or not we were outcoached or just lacked the cattle is another question. Given the Tri Natoins final, the current setup is good enough to get the team to be up for it. But I don't know that we didn't back ourselves in to a few too many corners and lack certain skills to win, and whether this is an issue of our cattle or our coach. Juries out for me, I'd love some kind of serious independent review from better judges than us of the last four years, but fat fucking chance.

 

[darkhorse]

Anyone who has read any of my posts on Robbie Deans knows that I'm not a fan of him BUT......if you're an Aussie and you are pulling on the Wallaby jersey to play in the semi-final of the RWC and you need the coach to bring out your inner mongrel....take the jersey off, apologise for ever touching it and possibly jinxing it with soft-balledness, walk out of the sheds, give yourself the a massive upper-cut and don't ever dream of playing for the country again.

That has nothing to do with Robbie and everything to do with the player.....full f**kn stop.

Agreed. Deans may not be the most inspirational bloke, but these players lack the passion of those in years gone by.

It isn't Deans fault entirely. This squad has consitently been up and down, this IMO is due to poor attitude and application.

EDIT: Though I did have a lot of problems with the tactics used tonight. Some of the selections were strange, but then again with a strong squad we are unlucky to agree with all 22 players picked. In the past this was never a problem.

 

[Bullrush]

Agreed. Deans may not be the most inspirational bloke, but these players lack the passion of those in years gone by.

It isn't Deans fault entirely. This squad has consitently been up and down, this IMO is due to poor attitude and application.

How many of you think that Pocock needs Deans to bring out his 'inner mongrel' for agame like this??

Alternatively, do you think Mealamu or Thorn or MCaw or Kaino needed Henry to give them some magical 'mongrel juice' ???

I'm not saying the coaches don't play a role but if you can't 'get up' for a RWC semi......do something you really love.....cos rugby ain't it

 

[darkhorse]

How many of you think that Pocock needs Deans to bring out his 'inner mongrel' for agame like this??

Alternatively, do you think Mealamu or Thorn or MCaw or Kaino needed Henry to give them some magical 'mongrel juice' ???

I'm not saying the coaches don't play a role but if you can't 'get up' for a RWC semi......do something you really love.....cos rugby ain't it

So you agree that Deans isn't responsible for the Wallabies attitude then? EDIT: The players are more responsible than the coach? The coach has an effect but at some point you have to say the players just don't have it in them. I never questioned Pocock's inner mongrel either. I don't want to single players out, but Pocock definitely isn't one of them.

I think we can all agree that there is a difference between the Wallabies' attitude and the ABs.

 

[Bullrush]

So you agree that Deans isn't responsible for the Wallabies attitude then? I never questioned Pocock's inner mongrel either. I don't want to single players out, but Pocock definitely isn't one of them.

I think we can all agree that there is a difference between the Wallabies' attitude and the ABs.

Sorry....I wasn't clear that I Actually agree with you

 

[numbertwo]

I'm sorry but this bloke has issues. Motivational gibberish, insane stubborness attached to ego not very ZEN Robbie. When some one clearly isn't playing well you drag them. QC (Quade Cooper) never plays 2 bad games in a row. WTF. Maybe I'm a dinosaur , but whe I played you had to actually play well to make the Wallabies! I busted my arse in the gym for year trying to make the side and this dickhead picks this. Give me a f&&&&king break. Some one has to call the Anthony Robbins twat on this. You didn't execute the optimal endpoint out come!!!!!

 

[Hawko]

I agree Deans isn't the man, but our current crop of players aren't exactly grand. Or if they are talented, they are inexperienced at test level. Probably haven't lost enough where the stakes are high for it to hurt enough to inspire.

In Genia, Cooper, Barnes, Beale, JOC (James O'Connor), Ioane, Tapuai, Horne, Mitchell etc. we have the most talented backline we have had for ten years, maybe more. Its an absolute disgrace that such talent is being so totally wasted.

From time to time our forwards have looked good too. The basis of a good pack has been there but Deans' youth fetish has meant casting off better players for younger ones and that hasn't worked. Forwards, with the possible exception of open sides, tend to mature around 27-28. That's when we dispose of them.

We have had the makings. But we have a coaching team unable to develop good play consistently. Occasionally it all comes together but then next week it goes to custard and we start trying a new paradigm like this WC's defensive crashball centres nonsense. Less than 12 months ago we cut the French to shreds. Could we do it next week? We'll never know but I doubt it. The reason we can't is the new paradigm and the selection of particular players and the positioning of them. (Remember Deans promised he would trial JOC (James O'Connor) at 12? I'm still waiting, maybe in the 3rd vs 4th non event he'll give it a go.)

Deans has proven that his history as a NZ coach was not a one-off, its what he always does. And it hasn't worked for Australia either. Because of JON's incompetence we are stuck with him for another two years. Unless he has a road to Damascus experience and totally changes his outlook the next two years will be the usual crap punctuated by a few good performances. Not a lot to look forward to.

 

[truckandtrailor]

Personally I think Robbie has done well for the development of Australian Rugby. As a scout he has a real knack for finding hidden talent (most famous - Will Gennia from 3rd choice Reds to Wallabies tour) and the Australian depth has improved overall. I think if he was a director of rugby... he would get a nod of approval from me.

As a coach..... he has good ideas on how he wants to play the game... but for mine imploys the wrong people to conduct the style he wants. Example A - Reds won the Super 15 based on keeping the tight 5 rolling off Genia, the backrowers in the inside of Cooper and basically giving Cooper and the backs as much room as possible. Quade is a "dancer" and works well with time, space and unstructured decisions. This style suits him perfectly... with space and time.. he is a freak.. without a doubt!

Wallabies don't really play that style, with players stretched across the park and forwards mixed in the backline.... this doesn't give Quade any space, which ruins his potentcy.. IMO. Also, if forwards are in the backline and Quade takes the ball to the line, teams will regularly leave the forwards to double up on Quade... knowing that they'll be able to slide in time to cover the "fattys".

For mine... if we wish to continue with Quade... either Robbie needs to watch how the Reds have learnt how to enhance their play with him and have tactics that reflect this.... or Coopers gotta go for a more structured 10 like Barnes.... or Ewen has to take over the job.

We sometimes forget the 2009 Reds... when Cooper was horrible and had no consistency. He owes everything to Mackenzie for building the right structure for his play... and unfortunately he is one player that - When he's on, he is the best attacking player in the game. When he's off, he's ROTTEN! He's is just a particular player that needs the right style of play to reach his potential.

 

[Slim 293]

If I'm reading all of this right...

None of the players selected by Deans should've been in the squad, and they all should've been replaced by...

Who?

 

[darkhorse]

If I'm reading all of this right...

None of the players selected by Deans should've been in the squad, and they all should've been replaced by...

Who?

I think most would argue it was the best squad available - excluding arguments over giteau, second 7. That's not the argument. Deans has his flaws. Average game plan at times, weird use of bench, whatever...

But the 'attitude', if you will, of the players was lacking. There was a clear difference between New Zealand and Australia, amongst others, in this aspect of the game.

The Coach has some effect on this but at the end of the day the players' inherent approach can only be changed so much. For example IMO even Henry couldn't stop the French from being entitled and enigmatic. Leivroment is having problems with them because it is in their nature and culture to behave that way. The Australian attitude is different to those from previous years. This is reflected in the volatile and sporadic results.

Deans has to shoulder a lot of the blame, but the players clearly didn't have what was required either.

Deans has performed below expectations, but he is still one of the better coaches in the world. There are very few coaches around atm that could have done better than him. IMO the problem and frustration comes from the fact that we do have one of these coaches in Link waiting at home. O'Neill was hasty in reappointing Deans especially with the quality of challengers for the position. Who would like Martin Johnson or DV in charge?

My previous posts were taking issue with the excessive criticism directed towards Deans. He has made mistakes but you have to give him some credit for what he has done. Winning the world cup in New Zealand was always going to be a tough ask. Playing in the tri-nations against the Boks in their prime - 07-09 - and the ABs who were consistently dangerous would ruin most coaches winning %.

 

[BRIX]

Deans stays, but Nucifora & Williams need to hang up the clipboard. Particularly Williams.

 

[waratahjesus]

Ivesaid this before but I'm putting it on record here.

A few years back when Deans was appointed, Ewen was the leading Australian candidate for the job. He didn't get it and ended up a couple of years later at a young reds squad building (and now winning) to a championship. Qld votes where probably the reason he didn't get the appointment in the first place.

Now, during deans tenure at the helm, the ambitious but out of favor ex brumbies coach David Nucifora has been quietly positioning himself on the cusp of the job he wants,he went from director to assistant via a review he conducted and from information available managed to appoint himself.

Now JON said during the review couple of years back that he would trust old Daves view, so why was Dingo reappointed.

Theory 1: Ewen is popular, in both the two biggest states and in general public opinion due to last seasons coaching. So if Dingo was to be sacked there would be a huge push for him to take over. But if the reds fall from grace over the next two years and Ewen is down on luck, expect a boardroom execution where Deans is kicked out in the middle of the night and Coach Nucifora appointed before dawn.

The pawns are in place my friends, the snake is in the hole and he is ready to strike.

 

[Reddy!]

Look I'm sick of Deans, but blaming him for Simmons being in the squad is a bit rich. The Wallabies have always been 1 injury away from having some muppet step in. To be fair to Deans he has given numerous players chances in the second row: Mumm, Chisholm, MMM. They all were average. That wasn't his fault as coach, they are just average players and that's because Australia doesn't have depth.

If you look at the 2007 RWC squad and the 2011 RWC squad, honestly which one looks stronger? Sure Deans made some perplexing decisions and I would be happy to see him go, but he took a squad that was on its last legs and rebuilt it. Only in the last year have we had a squad that looked remotely like it could have the talent to win it. If you look at history the odds were against us. You need more than talent to win a RWC, you also need experience. Every team that has won it has had a large core of players that lost in a previous world cup. We now have that squad.

I won't deny that Deans has done a poor job at times, but I am getting sick of people criticising every decision he makes and not giving him credit when in hindsight those decision were justified. Picking JOC (James O'Connor), Beale, Cooper, Kepu, Alexander and Pockock well before they were ready did ruin our test %, but I am confident we would have been knocked out in the quarters if he didn't pick these guys. We are nation that has always overachieved and getting into the semis is a good effort considering our playing stocks. If blokes like Mumm, Chisholm, Henderson and Hardman - Players someone like Connolly would surely have picked - had gone to the RWC we would have been in much worse shape.

I don't think Connolly would have picked those players to be honest. And to credit Deans with selecting some of the best young players in the country is a bit of a joke. It's a no-brainer right? Also, is getting knocked out in the quarters such a bad thing if you win every trophy in between? We won nothing and got knocked out in the semis and still have nothing...so what's the difference?

 

[cyclopath]

WJ, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, after all, this is the Internet, but did Ewen actually apply? You say he was the leading candidate, and didn't get it, but did he formally apply when Deans was appointed? I can't recall if he did.
I suspect you are on the money as far as Nucifora goes, however.