Robbie Deans Report Card

[Gnostic]

Well its time to get the knives out. I think Deans report card is getting marked now with the team he has selected for the Bok test in Brisvegas. Same failed team he has selected for the past 12 months. He can pretend to get angry and frustrated at players, pretend to drop players but it is becoming apparent that he is just pretending fullstop. No Higginbum, No A. Fainga'a, continued selection of Brown and Giteau.

Time to bite the bullet JON and get the red pen out and write the big F on the top of this report card.

 

[Scotty]

Did you really think he would select two players coming back from injury to make there debuts vs the Boks? I grant you that I would have liked to see them on the bench, but Higginbotham doesn't deserve to be selected over Hodgson. At least he has Simmons on the bench, but it is still a big ask of a young player vs the traditional lock powerhouses.

I would like to think he would have selected some of these players in the June tests if he could. But he hasn't been able to due to injury. Injury has decimated his ability to make certain choices and put strong teams on the park.

 

[Gnostic]

Did you really think he would select two players coming back from injury to make there debuts vs the Boks? I grant you that I would have liked to see them on the bench, but Higginbotham doesn't deserve to be selected over Hodgson. At least he has Simmons on the bench, but it is still a big ask of a young player vs the traditional lock powerhouses.

I would like to think he would have selected some of these players in the June tests if he could. But he hasn't been able to due to injury. Injury has decimated his ability to make certain choices and put strong teams on the park.

Stop making excuses. Higginbum should have been selected in front of Brown who should not have made the 22. How is is selected in front of Hodgeson is a mystery. Simmons should be starting in front of either Sharpe or Mumm. Where is A. Fainga'a, yes lets continue with the out of form Giteau and Barnes.

Lets look at facts, this forward pack bar Ma'afu and Fainga'a have been failing for 12 months. They won 7 games last year out of 14 with 1 from 6 in the 3N. Giteau is in the worst form of his career and has been declining for the last 12 months. Don't try and justify his selection on the basis of goal kicking, the ABs last weekend and before that did not win on the back of goal kicks. This team will be lucky to get a shot at goal.

 

[DPK]

Stop making excuses. Higginbum should have been selected in front of Brown who should not have made the 22. How is is selected in front of Hodgeson is a mystery. Simmons should be starting in front of either Sharpe or Mumm. Where is A. Fainga'a, yes lets continue with the out of form Giteau and Barnes.

Lets look at facts, this forward pack bar Ma'afu and Fainga'a have been failing for 12 months. They won 7 games last year out of 14 with 1 from 6 in the 3N. Giteau is in the worst form of his career and has been declining for the last 12 months. Don't try and justify his selection on the basis of goal kicking, the ABs last weekend and before that did not win on the back of goal kicks. This team will be lucky to get a shot at goal.

You aren't in the Wallaby camp. Maybe Hodgson is a shit trainer, and maybe Higginbotham isn't feeling up to it? Simmons definetely should not be starting in front of Sharpe.

How did the forward pack fail last year? It was the only thing that improved in a terrible year for the Wallabies.

 

[Gnostic]

You aren't in the Wallaby camp. Maybe Hodgson is a shit trainer, and maybe Higginbotham isn't feeling up to it? Simmons definetely should not be starting in front of Sharpe.

How did the forward pack fail last year? It was the only thing that improved in a terrible year for the Wallabies.

The forwards did not get better than parity with the ABs in any game last year and only marginally achieved that in the 4th Bled. They failed to turn up at all against Ireland and Scotland. The scrum was the only thing that improved last year. Sharpe was dropped after the SA tour last year because of his dire lineout work and his inability to remain on his feet in the lightest of tackles.

Where has this team improved?

 

[Scotty]

You have to consider at some stage that we just don't have as good a quality players as the Boks and ABs can muster.

Just compare the current team to the equivalent RWC winning 99 one. Our locks are well down, our flyhalf isn't (currently) a patch on that one, our centres have nothing and neither does our full back. Actually our full strength forward pack isn't far off (apart from the locks) the 99 RWC one. But our backline has nothing in comparison - I doubt any would be selected in a combined team.

 

[Gnostic]

You have to consider at some stage that we just don't have as good a quality players as the Boks and ABs can muster.

Just compare the current team to the equivalent RWC winning 99 one. Our locks are well down, our flyhalf isn't (currently) a patch on that one, our centres have nothing and neither does our full back. Actually our full strength forward pack isn't far off (apart from the locks) the 99 RWC one. But our backline has nothing in comparison - I doubt any would be selected in a combined team.

Why then continue with those who have obviously even by your assessment proved inadequate. Do not so there are no other options. There are plenty who have never had a go. We now have Wallabies with over 50 caps who by yours, mine and most other assessment just don't cut it. That is my argument, to cite injuries and lack of depth is defeatist. At least TRY something different, and then if they fail at least you tried. This continuing and then saying "oh well we just don't have the depth" is just giving up.

 

[I like to watch]

but depth is a big issue, both the the Boks & AB's have 4 or 5 locks better than ours, ditto the centres.
How many Wobblies would be selected in a 3N team?how many wobblies would even be selected in an AB or a boks side? my opinion is not many.
He gets bagged for cheapening the jersey by trying out 2nd stringers, then he is bagged for not developing enough players, it can't be both.

 

[cyclopath]

but depth is a big issue, both the the Boks & AB's have 4 or 5 locks better than ours, ditto the centres.
How many Wobblies would be selected in a 3N team?how many wobblies would even be selected in an AB or a boks side? my opinion is not many.
He gets bagged for cheapening the jersey by trying out 2nd stringers, then he is bagged for not developing enough players, it can't be both.

None for the ABs, maybe a handful for the Bokke.

 

[Gnostic]

but depth is a big issue, both the the Boks & AB's have 4 or 5 locks better than ours, ditto the centres.
How many Wobblies would be selected in a 3N team?how many wobblies would even be selected in an AB or a boks side? my opinion is not many.
He gets bagged for cheapening the jersey by trying out 2nd stringers, then he is bagged for not developing enough players, it can't be both.

Name the locks he has chosen in the last three years.

Mumm, Chisholm, Sharpe, MMM. AM I missing anybody. Dennis was selected as a 6 and that is what he is. He has finally selected Simmons. Again we come back to the arguments regarding depth and blooding new players. Apart from where his hand was forced by injury or absolutely outstanding form of a pretender (Cooper and Genia) he has made no changes. I have never argued about the cheapening of the jersey by him picking untried players. The value of selection will only drop when the players do not respect and value that selection for more than what it adds to their wallet.

 

[Scorz]

You have to consider at some stage that we just don't have as good a quality players as the Boks and ABs can muster.

Just compare the current team to the equivalent RWC winning 99 one. Our locks are well down, our flyhalf isn't (currently) a patch on that one, our centres have nothing and neither does our full back. Actually our full strength forward pack isn't far off (apart from the locks) the 99 RWC one. But our backline has nothing in comparison - I doubt any would be selected in a combined team.

That's probably for the most part true but there are some class players who for whatever reason don't flourish under Wobbie's care. Giteau is an excellent player, so is Barnes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is up there with those guys on his day, JO'C will someday soon be the first name on your team sheet, Rocky is up there, Sharpe too at times... The depth isn't great, which of course is the main problem because it doesn't promote consistent performances if you can't replace key players with competent ones.

 

[tranquility]

In answer to an above post, of those uninjured Robinson, Moore, Genia and maybe AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would make either of the All Blacks or Bokke side. Pocock would be the reserve flanker for both sides and Quade would probably be the reserve inside back.

 

[Scotty]

That's probably for the most part true but there are some class players who for whatever reason don't flourish under Wobbie's care. Giteau is an excellent player, so is Barnes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is up there with those guys on his day, JO'C will someday soon be the first name on your team sheet, Rocky is up there, Sharpe too at times... The depth isn't great, which of course is the main problem because it doesn't promote consistent performances if you can't replace key players with competent ones.

Giteau, Rocky and Barnes also had poor to average seasons for the provincial sides. Sharpe is currently playing to a similar level he has for the last 5 years. They don't suddenly get worse when they are playing for the Wallabies.

 

[Scotty]

In answer to an above post, of those uninjured Robinson, Moore, Genia and maybe AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would make either of the All Blacks or Bokke side. Pocock would be the reserve flanker for both sides and Quade would probably be the reserve inside back.

If we are talking about full strength sides, then IMO only Robinson would make the starting side of a combined 3N team. Pocock, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Genia and Moore/TPN would make the bench. So 1 out of 15, or 5 out of 22. Seems about right to me.

We can only hope that the likes of Alexander, Palu, Elsom, Cooper, Mitchell and Giteau play to their full potential in the next year or so and would also be worthy of a spot in that 22.

 

[Scorz]

In answer to an above post, of those uninjured Robinson, Moore, Genia and maybe AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would make either of the All Blacks or Bokke side. Pocock would be the reserve flanker for both sides and Quade would probably be the reserve inside back.

I don't agree. Robinson maybe - looking forward to seeing that battle in the Melbourne Test! Same again for Moore but it's tough to prove off a bench spot. Mealamu is better around the park, just the throw ins I'd give to Moore. Genia would. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) wouldn't get past Dagg or Jane or Muliaina and *maybe* not Rokocoko, Nonu and Smith would keep him out of the midfield too. Then it depends on whether you want a specialist on the bench in Pocock. I say rugby's moved on from it, has been years since Henry regularly used that option too. There is no way Quade Cooper would get near an AB shirt, he's too hit and miss in defence.

As for the Bok's I'd take Robinson too. An uninjured Bismarck or Smit over Moore. Genia again would. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) wouldn't put Habana or F Steyn out but he might get a go on the other wing or in the midfield. The Bokke have Juan Smith and Schalk Burger, maybe Pocock could sneak onto the Bok bench since PdV is a weirdo.

For my mind, only Robinson and Genia would be around, and only the latter for sure.

 

[Scorz]

Giteau, Rocky and Barnes also had poor to average seasons for the provincial sides. Sharpe is currently playing to a similar level he has for the last 5 years. They don't suddenly get worse when they are playing for the Wallabies.

But they don't get better either. Richard Kahui is the shining example of a guy who plays like utter shit the entire S14, gets controversially bought into the AB squad and goes into Superman Mode. Your national coach is charged with getting the best out of the best players he has using a gameplan that emphasises team strengths and covers for weaknesses.

 

[Langthorne]

Rocky was one of the better players for the Brumbies (according to the posters on this forum - check the 3-2-1s), and Mitchell had a pretty impressive season with the Waratahs, as did Mumm. Sharpe had an outstanding s14, as did Pocock and Hodgson (who knows how he is going now?). The other issue is all the top performers who didn't make the squad at any point.

To be fair to Deans, Burgess has been better for the Wallabies than he was for the Waratahs.

 

[Gagger]

But they don't get better either. Richard Kahui is the shining example of a guy who plays like utter shit the entire S14, gets controversially bought into the AB squad and goes into Superman Mode. Your national coach is charged with getting the best out of the best players he has using a gameplan that emphasises team strengths and covers for weaknesses.

You mean like Loaki?

 

[Groucho]

None for the ABs, maybe a handful for the Bokke.

Bullshit. To say that none of Robinson, Moore, TPN, Elsom, Pocock, Genia, Cooper, Giteau, Ioane, Mitchell or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would make an ABs side is dreary pessimism of the worst sort.

 

[DPK]

Bullshit. To say that none of Robinson, Moore, TPN, Elsom, Pocock, Genia, Cooper, Giteau, Ioane, Mitchell or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would make an ABs side is dreary pessimism of the worst sort.

Yeah, no way would AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) sit behind Cory Jane.

I dont see how Giteau would fit into either of those teams though.