Rio Olympics

[Highlander35]

Maybe 3 proper Sevens tournaments (like the Europeans did) were better preparation for the Olympics than a handful of friendlies v Japan and Trials v Aus A/Barbarians/Development/Whatever they were calling themselves.

Or perhaps the coach is is shit.

Or perhaps the injuries to key players are finally having an impact.

Or maybe there are a number of players who just aren't good enough anymore/aren't good enough yet/never were and never will be good enough.

Or maybe the ARU needs to stump up some more cash or other incentives to the better 15s, or even just former sevens boys among the Super Sides.

Who knows. Beat the Saffas and you should be through. They've suffered enough losses this series that it's hardly impossible, or even unlikely.

 

[I like to watch]

The Aussie Mens 7s need to recruit athletes from other sports like the Womens team to do a leap of quality. These guys are not even the best athletes of their code. This is the only way that an AFL or NRL player could play at the Olympics and win a medal for their country.

The Australian Olympic Committee should invest more money, they are two golden medals for the Committee, OZ has the athletes needed to be the power number one in this.

If he can't identify the best who already play the code.
What hope is he of identifying talent outside the code?

 

[Strewthcobber]

If he can't identify the best who already play the code.
What hope is he of identifying talent outside the code?

I would think identification isn't the problem, it's compensation that's the real issue.

Tim Walsh can get the best players he can find because he can pay them more than just about anyone else.

Friend can't.

 

[I like to watch]

So the only guys he can identify are the rockstars that have already been identified?

Have you been to any local 7's tournaments?
There were numerous better performed players than current squad members in Kiama this year.
It's an embarrassment who they include in their 'development' squad that can't beat local teams that have no specific 7's experience/training.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Who was better at Kiama?

 

[kiap]

If he can't identify the best who already play the code.
What hope is he of identifying talent outside the code?

Friend has only been in the job 6-7 months. Now, I don't think he is a super coach by any means and maybe someone else (Walsh?) could get the gig, but there's not a lot of guys you bring in "off the street" in that sort of timeframe. A few injujries happen, like to Pama Fou, and suddenly the team is back to the field.

Even Tietjens, probably the best sevens coach in the world a few years ago, just had his side lose to Japan.

As Strewthy said, the pay is not great for men's sevens. It's improving but needs to improve more because guys would still rather play Supe.

 

[Strewthcobber]

As Strewthy said, the pay is not great for men's sevens. It's improving but needs to improve more because guys would still rather play Supe.

That's not even mentioning the established pathway that League teams have for getting those promising touch players and track athletes into their Pro systems.

Much harder environment for the men's coach (which is one reason Walsh wont take it on)

 

[I like to watch]

Friend has only been in the job 6-7 months. Now, I don't think he is a super coach by any means and maybe someone else (Walsh?) could get the gig, but there's not a lot of guys you bring in "off the street" in that sort of timeframe. A few injujries happen, like to Pama Fou, and suddenly the team is back to the field.

Even Tietjens, probably the best sevens coach in the world a few years ago, just had his side lose to Japan.

As Strewthy said, the pay is not great for men's sevens. It's improving but needs to improve more because guys would still rather play Supe.

I agree the timeframe was against him, in respect to unearthing some rough diamonds.
However, I understood that the ARU was keen for him to pillage Super teams for the right players,wasn't McMahon quoted to be keen to play amongst several other high profile Super players with a track record of excelling in 7's.

There were literally more than a dozen players in Kiama that performed considerably better than Porch.

 

[kiap]

That's not even mentioning the established pathway that League teams have for getting those promising touch players and track athletes into their Pro systems.

S'truth. -- Mind you, targeting those touch players, and so on, is something rugby sevens should definitely be picking their game up on. It was a smart move by RL taking over the Touch organisation and they left the ARU in the wash. But it needs a program put in place and some time to bring players through.

Much harder environment for the men's coach (which is one reason Walsh wont take it on)

Smart call by Walsh. But at the risk of trolling this board, I'll paraphrase Ric Charlesworth - He's soft!

 

[kiap]

However, I understood that the ARU was keen for him to pillage Super teams for the right players,wasn't McMahon quoted to be keen to play amongst several other high profile Super players with a track record of excelling in 7's.

Fair enough point.

It's a tough call, though, when players aren't available to play on the circuit and are wanting to be parachuted in.

 

[Braveheart81]

There were literally more than a dozen players in Kiama that performed considerably better than Porch.

I have no idea on the specific contracting details but there must be some basis where a new player commits to either a trial or a short term contract and then is potentially signed up for longer.

I would guess by the Kiama 7s, Friend has pretty much finalised his squad and doesn't have any spaces to fill in terms of contracts.

It does seem like players who are interested in the 7s programme need to seek it out as well. I don't think the Aussie 7s is nearly well enough resourced that they could sound out every promising player to see if they wanted to quit their job for a chance to join the Aussie 7s squad on some basis.

 

[Highlander35]

Next time next time next time.

Obviously not completely foolproof, but maybe something along the lines of 6 players (1 member of the World Cup Squad, and 1 Super Rugby Players from each squad) get released for all training and tournaments, with payment as if they were still playing Super Rugby and Wallabies, along with guaranteeing a spot in the Rugby Championship squad/a contract at your super side at least as good as your contract for that season.

So: Speight/McMahon, Coleman/Shipperley, Morahan, Gill, and Lucas (just throwing names who've done 7s before) are all in full time training and available for all series tourneys, for example at least.

 

[I like to watch]

I have no idea on the specific contracting details but there must be some basis where a new player commits to either a trial or a short term contract and then is potentially signed up for longer.

I would guess by the Kiama 7s, Friend has pretty much finalised his squad and doesn't have any spaces to fill in terms of contracts.

It does seem like players who are interested in the 7s programme need to seek it out as well. I don't think the Aussie 7s is nearly well enough resourced that they could sound out every promising player to see if they wanted to quit their job for a chance to join the Aussie 7s squad on some basis.

There were no shortage of wanna be's that were happy to be canon fodder in trials to prepare the Olypic squad.
Plenty of failed league players.
Maybe the idea is to identify the talent,abd invite them in,and not just pick those who know there are trials on?

 

[neilc]

There were no shortage of wanna be's that were happy to be canon fodder in trials to prepare the Olypic squad.
Plenty of failed league players.
Maybe the idea is to identify the talent,abd invite them in,and not just pick those who know there are trials on?

True, I think the talent ID approach that the women's team took could be used in a similar way to uncover non-footballing talent (athletics etc) or non pro footballers who might be good 7's players. Say you went to Melbourne and found a good VFL player who is never going to be a pro AFL player but has the attributes to be a good 7s player. Being an elite footballer in any code does not necessarily translate to the requirements of 7s, but having the speed and athletic skills that can be adapted to the game is something that needs to be spotted.

The 15s players need to be part of the squad for some time to adapt - I watched Speight in the Sydney 7s and thought he looked ordinary as he hadn't had the time to get used to it. Unfortunately it is only the Olympics that is really going to get existing pro players interested enough.

 

[Braveheart81]

True, I think the talent ID approach that the women's team took could be used in a similar way to uncover non-footballing talent (athletics etc) or non pro footballers who might be good 7's players. Say you went to Melbourne and found a good VFL player who is never going to be a pro AFL player but has the attributes to be a good 7s player. Being an elite footballer in any code does not necessarily translate to the requirements of 7s, but having the speed and athletic skills that can be adapted to the game is something that needs to be spotted.

I think this is a pretty tough endeavour though that is likely far beyond the recruitment resources the Aussie 7s has.

As Strewthcobber and others have highlighted, there is far less scope for the men's 7s team to just recruit good athletes as it isn't as attractive a professional sporting opportunity on a relative basis as it is for women.

Maybe an open tryouts situation and figure that they need to dedicate x number of spots within the overall squad over the next four years in the lead up to the next Olympics.

Pama Fou essentially came to the team as a player from another sport (volleyball) looking for another opportunity (I believe due to injuries).

 

[Marcelo]

Charlotte Caslick to Charlesworth:

"I guess he's never played sevens. I used to do track running when I was younger, and rugby sevens is like running a 400m - but on steroids. It is the hardest sport that I have ever tried.

If you try running a 400 and getting tackled and getting back up off the ground, it's tough. I think hockey is as hard as any of the team games you play. Basketball is similar, where you have to play for two weeks, day after day. You can win five or six games and end up with nothing and that is tough.

I played in a bunch of teams that were undefeated until the semi-finals - that can happen, it's a hard medal to win, you have to slog it out day after day."

 

[RugbyReg]

Ok. So this is what I reckon the pools are now:

 

[Highlander35]

World Rugby has head to head as the tie breaker Reg, which would swap all of your 2nd and 3rd teams I believe.

 

[Strewthcobber]

World Rugby has head to head as the tie breaker Reg, which would swap all of your 2nd and 3rd teams I believe.

Is it head to head within pools and then points difference outside of the pools for the third place sides?

 

[RugbyReg]

Predictions for tonight are perhaps:

Group A:

Arg by 20 over Brazil
Fiji by 10 over USA (tough one)

Group B:
Fra by 20 over Spain
SAF by 10 over Aus (generous given yesterday)

Group C:
JAP by 2 over KEN
NZL by 2 over GBR

Which would give us this, meaning Oz miss out.