Repeated Trauma Encephalopathy

[Bruce Ross]

Two points:

• In the light of this information is it possible we could have an end to dim-witted commentators declaiming, "Oh, there was nothing in that", whenever there's a head shot.
  
• We are fortunate that the shoulder charge is outlawed in our code, as the jolt to the body which whiplashes to the skull appears to be more severe than with a regulation tackle.

 

[Gagger]

Two points:

• In the light of this information is it possible we could have an end to dim-witted commentators declaiming, "Oh, there was nothing in that", whenever there's a head shot.

Big +1

The recent game of
"From where I am sitting on the sideline / comm box, I can can out-macho the last commentator in saying "there was nothing it that"
is well and truly on my tits.

kafe's bullshit about that high shot on Ryan Cross last weekend was the fucking cherry on the cake

 

[Richo]

I think the other huge part of managing this issue is player education. It's a slow process, but player culture needs to be worked at hard and over a long period of time, starting at the earliest playing ages, to educate them about the dangers of head injury. If players know -- and I mean really, really know -- that faking or cheating your way into playing with concussion is the best way to a short career and a miserable existence shitting yourself and forgetting your friends and family by your mid-forties, they will start acting in their own interests. It's amazing that players will screw their team for cash, but not for the longevity of their own career or their life in retirement.

The NFL looks to be slowly reaching a tipping point on this. More and more players are taking concussion rests, wearing safety helmets and special mouth guards. Hopefully rugby will move in this direction.

For those with an interest in the subject, here is Malcolm Gladwell's New Yorker article on the NFL and brain injury. It came out 18 months ago and has been incredibly influential in broadening fan, media and player understanding of the risks.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/19/091019fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all

 

[rugbyisfun]

Barnes cleared today .. .'transient global amnesia' and 'footballers migrane'.....the NSW Waratahs Medical Staff should be sacked immediately. What a load of bullshit.... Geeze I hope nothing serious happens to the poor kid.

 

[Scarfman]

Barnes cleared today .. .'transient global amnesia' and 'footballers migrane'.....the NSW Waratahs Medical Staff should be sacked immediately. What a load of bullshit.... Geeze I hope nothing serious happens to the poor kid.

So, he can't remember anything and his head hurts. He sounds fine!

 

[HodgoBerro]

It's Berrick's birthday on Saturday
A) he probably doesn't know how old he is
B) my present is sorted, bubble wrap & cotton wool.

 

[daz]

I met Barnes a few times on the RWC07 tour. Nothing really that memorable, just the "nice to meet you, having fun, great tour, been to the eiffel tower yet?", type of stuff.

Then, 3 years later, I had a very brief encounter at the Oz2 v Pom game (where my sig comes from) and guess what? He didn't remember me. But, get this, he did remember being in Paris!

Obviously has a very selective brain problem. Get the poor man some help.

 

[HodgoBerro]

Funny how at Waratahs fan day this year when we were talking, he could remember stuff from his Reds days.

 

[REDinCPT]

Barnes cleared today .. .'transient global amnesia' and 'footballers migrane'.....the NSW Waratahs Medical Staff should be sacked immediately. What a load of bullshit.... Geeze I hope nothing serious happens to the poor kid.

complete bullshit, they are going to end up killing this guy.

the tahs seem to be grinding all of their best players into the ground this season. if i was a player i would be looking elsewhere...

 

[daz]

complete bullshit, they are going to end up killing this guy.

Long bow there REDinCPT. While I agree that regular knocks to noggin which shows up as blackouts and dizziness should be a pretty good indicator that something needs to change, the thought does occur to me that Barnes is playing the game as a professional athlete of his own free will. Some onus has to be on him to decide if the rewards are worth the potential long term issues.

Having said that, I also think that the duty of care onus is also on the employer to consider the risks to this young man.

I wonder if Angelo Dundee ever told a certain M. Ali to tone it down or walk away?

 

[waratahjesus]

ive mentioned before on this site that im signed up to a study on this, i have had 6 concussions in total, 4 from rugby and am still managed due to some side effects from these.

problem is, its not a one size fits all treatment and people calling on medical staff to be sacked need to pull there heads in. when i go to days for the study there is a guy that sits next to me that was a boxer, he has 18 registered concussions, he is in better health than me. to say that barnes or tpn for that matter are mismanaged shows a true level of knowledge, that being lack of.

the tahs have proved this year that they put the players before big pressure games, good on em, hope qld has the balls to follow if the time comes.

 

[rugbyisfun]

Time will tell WaratahJesus. You don't get a second-chance with a mis-diagnosis when it comes to head injuries.....The Joost Van Der Westhuizan situation scares the s..t out of me to tell you the truth...

 

[waratahjesus]

Time will tell, but the waratahs medical staff act on medical diagnosis and for some on here to accuse them of selling players out for the gain of the team is ridiculus. I received two concussions in a subbies game and had memory loss and dizziness due to it, I then went drinking for ten hours and didn't see a doctor til the Thursday after, barnes saw a doctor when he left the field and adgiven appropriate management. This I believe. The doctors involved with the tahs are there as doctors and not team management, there professional life depends on them getting it right first player on the park second, this to my belief is the same everywhere in Australia.

 

[Richo]

Not to imply anything about the medical staff at the Tahs or about doctors in general, but there have been instances of collusion between medical staff and teams in the US around head injuries, particularly in American football.

It's great to see that Barnes is getting an opinion from a top-flight neurologist -- this is, I think, the appropriate course of action and shows good duty of care from the team.

 

[Ruggo]

ive mentioned before on this site that im signed up to a study on this, i have had 6 concussions in total, 4 from rugby and am still managed due to some side effects from these.

problem is, its not a one size fits all treatment and people calling on medical staff to be sacked need to pull there heads in. when i go to days for the study there is a guy that sits next to me that was a boxer, he has 18 registered concussions, he is in better health than me. to say that barnes or tpn for that matter are mismanaged shows a true level of knowledge, that being lack of.

the tahs have proved this year that they put the players before big pressure games, good on em, hope qld has the balls to follow if the time comes.

I think the Reds already have in regards to overall player welfare management. The way in which they are being very methodical in unleashing Liam Gill onto the Super Rugby stage is a good example that they won't compromise on player safety.

 

[saulih]

The commentators should keep their mouths shut about dangerous play calls by the Ref. If the Ref calls something dangerous let it go - cut the crap about 'that was a wrong call' 'nothing in that'. He sure was a hell of a lot closer to the action than you sitting in the commentary box watching a replay.

A fear I have is that if players have mandatory rest periods applied, it will lead to more dangerous plays with players knowing that a cheap shot could take a marquee player out of remaining 3N games, or out of an upcoming finals matchup. While we all like to think the best of people, I can think of a couple players in Super Rugby who might consider some underhanded play.

I think greater policing of the dangerous play laws will improve the situation... maybe an automatic sinbinning for high tackles? That would sure get players thinking about where they go in for the hit. Yes it might change the character of tackling somewhat (with players becoming reluctant to go in for a chest high tackle) but if we are to become more serious about reducing injuries?

my 2 cents worth

 

[Gnostic]

The Waratahs maintained that Barnes is not suffering from concussion but a condition called footballer's migraine, which has no long-term effect on the brain. But Barnes has previously been troubled by similar symptoms after 60 minutes on the field and will undergo further cognitive tests on Sunday to determine the root cause.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...rs-migraine-20110527-1f8cc.html#ixzz1NcJ2DmD4

The latest on Barnes.

This "Footballer's Migraine" diagnosis and the attempts to separate it from the effects of concussion seem very very misleading to me. Medical smoke and mirrors.

If he is indeed having migraine, and hasn't been a previous sufferer of the debilitating condition the question should be asked what has caused the neurological changes to leave him with this sensitivity. The obvious answer is the trauma from the concusive incidents have caused changes in the responsiveness and perhaps architecture of the cranial blood vessels. Loss of co-ordination, aversion to light and nausea are common symtoms of migraine, loss of memory is not.

Given the issues raised earlier in this thread with evidence becoming apparent that ex-players with no concussive incidents have evidence of RTE more searching questions need to be asked. If I was Barnes I would be having a talk to Elton Flatley's Neurosurgeon.

 

[Rob42]

Top-flight neurologists? Bah, who needs 'em...

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/concussion-recognition-response/id436009132?mt=8

 

[light]

So long as whatever is done at the top level is echoed down into schoolboy grades I'm happy. Schoolboys trying to get back up and play on after concussion just because they see their heroes on TV do it shouldn't be encouraged. Recipe for disaster waiting to happen, should be a week off minimum, of course depending on the seriousness of the concussion but teams should try and enforce it for the wellbeing of the player

 

[Thomond78]

New concussion policy, much like Boksmart/RugbySmart, just announced.

Most of the links for the good stuff at http://rugbylaw.blogspot.com/2011/06/concussion-guidelines.html