Referees

[PaarlBok]

The one huge benefit SA rugby have against their two southern broers is that we run two competions mostly during the S14. This dont only gives us a good structure for our players to bring through but also give us a change to pick match fit and form players from Vodacom to S14 when there are injuries. A young player like Juan de jong jump from Varsity Cup in 2009 to S14 level in 2010. The same happen with coaches with both Fleck and Proudfoot. In both cases the Stormers have benefit because they have two of the top teams playing in the Varsity Cup. But myself think the reffing part is just as important. It bring a lot of young refs to the TV stage and to CC and then to S14 and the Varsity Cup also give Andre Watson the change to experiment with all this TV technology and new laws. The Francois Pienaar brain child Varsity Cup is one of our biggest success stories in rugby. Being at the start of the season it attrack a lot of interest from rugby supporters, we are at this very moment recondition and in top notch for a lekka rugby season.

 

[PaarlBok]

Sorry its a bit off topic but here is the links

http://www.varsitycup.co.za/Community/custompages/newsdetail.aspx?contentId=2184580]Fleck & Proudfoot][http://www.varsitycup.co.za/Community/custompages/newsdetail.aspx?contentId=2184580]Fleck & Proudfoot[/url]

Juan de Jongh]http://www.sarugby.net/newsarticle.aspx?newsid=330033&leagueid=&fixturescatid=&resultscatid=&vidcatid=&piccat=&statscatid=&statsteam=&newscat=]Juan de Jongh

 

[chief]

The one huge benefit SA rugby have against their two southern broers is that we run two competions mostly during the S14. This dont only gives us a good structure for our players to bring through but also give us a change to pick match fit and form players from Vodacom to S14 when there are injuries. A young player like Juan de jong jump from Varsity Cup in 2009 to S14 level in 2010. The same happen with coaches with both Fleck and Proudfoot. In both cases the Stormers have benefit because they have two of the top teams playing in the Varsity Cup. But myself think the reffing part is just as important. It bring a lot of young refs to the TV stage and to CC and then to S14 and the Varsity Cup also give Andre Watson the change to experiment with all this TV technology and new laws. The Francois Pienaar brain child Varsity Cup is one of our biggest success stories in rugby. Being at the start of the season it attrack a lot of interest from rugby supporters, we are at this very moment recondition and in top notch for a lekka rugby season.

Exactly, not having these within the ARU, has made it a lot harder for these referees to progress. Peter Marshall got the kick, Andrew Cole is currently doing about 3 peoples jobs due to cost cutting, and only two full time RU referees (Steve Walsh & Stuart Dickinson) Mind you you're are all right, I should stop criticizing Bryce's incompetence, because I tried it once and man did I fail. Never again.

 

[Thomond78]

Give it a rest chief.

You don't like Lawrence, we all know that. God knows I've now read it on at least 55 threads on G & G Rugby.

Let me guess, you think Goddard should have got the gig?

Thomond - is there ANY referee you think is any good? Serious question.

I presume you haven't seen my comments in another thread on how happy I'd be to have Mark Lawrence reffing us?

Off the top of my head, in international reffing, I'd be quite happy to get: White. Mark Lawrence. Kaplan, when he's not just making up laws (which he can do). Rolland, this season, now he's stopped doing the same. Garces I think is a cracking prospect, and I'm really hoping he trains on, because he's looking top-notch in what I've seen of him to date. Berdos can be uppy-downy, but he's getting better and his good days are now pretty good (he did a good job in the Second Lions test, albeit he was badly left down by BL).

Edit; I'd hope Good SW comes back, because Good SW is a good ref. Dickinson is an average ref, but a very good TMO; I suspect he'd be a very good assessor or trainer of refs.

 

[chief]

Berdos made a mistake with Schalk Burger incident, and in a Heineken Cup match where he gave a yellow for a stamp on head. In the Italy vs Samoa match he gave a red card for a yellow card maximum offense. I think he's been told by referees bosses to up his sanctions because he has made a mess of a few, which have caused him to be a little bit more harsh. Good and bad though, I like Berdos. I'd happily have Kaplan referee any game, I think he's one of the best behind Barnes, Lawrence and Rolland who are actually god damn good referees, Barnes being probably one of the best I've seen. Of course Majorly Ready you did get it right Goddard is the king or queen at the top. But don't you all worry, Goddard will be TMO'ing in this years S14.

 

[Thomond78]

Barnes has talent, and when he's not flouncing around, it shows. But by God, when he starts getting into one of his "I'm the boss" moods, you just wish both captains would, by agreement, give him a swift clip to the ear, tell him to stop, and then get on with the game.

Garces gave a straight red for a double stamp on a player in the Ulster-Bath game at the weekend. The more I see and hear of him, the more I reckon this guy's a keeper. And a ref that good who's French - and therefore neutrally in the line-up for Lions 2013 - is the Holy Grail.

I'd forgive Berdos for the Schalk Burger incident, as he was genuinely unsighted ( try the veal!). As I said, he's getting better, and please God will continue to do so.

 

[chief]

Thomond so he's not heading into retirement any time soon? Any word on how old he is? The longer we have him, the better. I saw that match, great refereeing, and took guts, didn't think twice either.

 

[Thomond78]

Thomond so he's not heading into retirement any time soon? Any word on how old he is? The longer we have him, the better. I saw that match, great refereeing, and took guts, didn't think twice either.

Garces is in his twenties. And won't hesitate to show a straight red in the T14. This is the sort of ref we've all been praying for a looooooong time. :yay

 

[Lee Grant]

I like Garces too for a young bloke. Unlike T78 I like Poite too in many ways.

One of my bugbears with referees is that they allow players to talk to them too much. Captains are entitled to question the referee but most of the time they are not really questions - they are suggestions, often delivered with an unmistakable tone of disrespect. Allowing such things is yet another way that referees have spoilt the game.

Ed Morrison was a bit like that, calling Kronfield "Josh" all the tiime and explaining the laws apologetically to him, as if he didn't know them. Steve Walsh was another who loved a chat. Let's hope that he shuts up in his 2nd iteration as he is otherwise a fine ref. French guys are quite good with English speaking players as they keep it simple. "Don't talk too much" is a good one.

I saw Poite referee in Rd.5 of the HC, Cardiff v Sale IIRR. He doesn't like players advising him and will dismiss captains pretty quickly if they are selling something. I like that a lot. When I saw that he was the ref in Rd 6, Munster v Sale, I thought Munster skipper POC was going to be in trouble. Though his yellow card was not for his backchat his not backing down with Poite did him no favours. Fortunately the good guys won in the end due to the sweetest tighthead you ever saw.

Poite is not bad at scrum time either and not frightened to give a card for them though he is less good at the breakdown IMO.

I like Berdos too but his understanding of English isn't great. Some people have excused Lawrence on the Burger matter for his recommendation to Berdos: "At least a yellow card", but Lawrence should have known that Berdos wouldn't process the information correctly and said: "A red card." Some commentators have said he did the right thing because an AR shouldn't decide the game but I don't buy it.

Although many non-speaking players play in Europe with and against English speakers and pick up the lingo, I think they are disadvantaged sometimes. I like the simple commands in amateur boxing - break - box -stop. Whilst you can't referee a rugby game with one word commands I reckon there should be a list of short English rugby phrases that referees use all the time and don't go outside that list whilst play goes on - unless there are exceptional circumstances. A few refs carry on like they are in a referees reality TV show.

But if a French guy is refereeing the TJs and TMOs should be French also. And English speaking refs should act together too. Rolland is the obvious exception to this. There have been too many misunderstandings in recent times.

Of the other NH refs I like Rolland, Owens and Barnes and in the SH Kaplan is head and shoulders above the rest (except against the Tahs when he is moronic). Mark Lawrence too and I like Kiwi Vinny Munro.

Just to end with a digression: I like refs who give cards without all the rituals. Rolland surprised me last weekend when he said to a captain something like:: "One more and I'll give you a warning."" Good grief - this is exactly wrong.

 

[Blue]

Yeah I heard that Rolland comment and had to rewind to listen again. Crazy. Rolland in my opinion has gone backwards over the last couple of years. Too bad, I really liked him.

There would be some people who'd say that Kaplan must be the only ref who refs the Tahs correctly but I'm not going to go there :fishing

Oh and I agree that the touchie had no excuse to not call a red card against Burger but that's history now.

 

[chief]

Any person who tries to give Rolland any suggestions he tells them to get screwed, next person to do it gets 10. I like that, Rolland really does endorse positive play, such as yellow cards for cynical infringements even when they are outside the red zone. I think Rolland really has gotten worse, and Allan Lewis has gotten a lot better though. He seems pretty good now, seems like the IRB under closed doors told him to up his performance and he really has.

Dickinson had a good 3rd Lions test, was probably the best referee of that series. Overall it wasn't all that bad, with technology really exposing the referees flaws.

 

[Biffo]

Dickinson had a good 3rd Lions test, was probably the best referee of that series. Overall it wasn't all that bad, with technology really exposing the referees flaws.

How many players made less mistakes than the referees?

 

[Thomond78]

Chief, Blue: on Rolland. I'd have agreed with you absolutely about him being poor last year. Thought he was erratic. However, this season, he's pulled finger, I'd have to say, and is back on form. Correct on him not being scared of cards, which is a good thing.

BTW, on the "one more and you get a warning' - believe it or not, while it's unusual, it's exactly correct in terms of the laws. If there's a certain number - I think it's three - of the same offence, you have to give a warning, and then card. So, if n=card, n-1=warning, then n-2="one more and you get a warning". If he then follows it through, could be no bad thing, as it means teams know a ref's going to be reaching for his pocket.

There is, btw, no excuse for refs not to learn a bit of French. You only really need about twenty words, and one, "lachez!" will cover most sins. So, frankly, when you could simply learn, "Lachez!", "Restez-la!", "Reculez!", "Roulez!" and "Non" for "Let go", "Stay there", "Get back", "Roll" and "No", how hard can it be to run most of a game from there? 1-15, and that's as much communication as you usually need.

Nigel Owens, btw, occasionally talks on the pitch to Welsh-speaking players like Eifion Roberts of Sale in Welsh.

 

[chief]

T78- Let's just teach all referees the words Jaune (red), and rouge(yellow). That will surely be a success?

I think Owens is just a theatrical referee, gets a bit annoying, seems like he's out to perform, rather then referee.

Decided to get my google on and find out Garce's age, appears he is about 35. So not so young at all, a shame really.

What happened to James Leckie? Haven't heard too much about him lately.

 

[Lindommer]

What happened to James Leckie? Haven't heard too much about him lately.

Lost his pro contract in 2009. I never thought he was THAT bad.

 

[chief]

So does that exclude him from all S14 matches? Or is he officially out of ARU panels now?

 

[Thomond78]

T78- Let's just teach all referees the words Jaune (red), and rouge(yellow). That will surely be a success?

I think Owens is just a theatrical referee, gets a bit annoying, seems like he's out to perform, rather then referee.

To be fair, that's just Nige. I don't think he's a great ref, but to give him his due, he's consistent. So, you can plan for him. No bad thing.

Decided to get my google on and find out Garce's age, appears he is about 35. So not so young at all, a shame really.

35 for a ref is a stripling. Four year older than Barnes, to give some perspective. About ten years younger than Rolland.

 

[Moses]

What happened to James Leckie? Haven't heard too much about him lately.

Lost his pro contract in 2009. I never thought he was THAT bad.

Unleckie

 

[Lee Grant]

Moses

That was funny :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 

[TheRiddler]

I think Matt Dunning and Jacques Potgieter’s scrap was captured well thanks to the equipment.”

Has the vision been made public?