Referees - Tackler not releasing

[yourmatesam]

Hi everyone, i wasn't sure where to put this thread but am interested in your thoughts.

Situation:

1v1 tackle, ball carrier runs into tackler, tackler targets the ball while both players are on their feet and gains "dominant position" on the ball (ie both players are holding the ball but the tackler has a more dominant position on the ball than the "ball carrier").

Ball carrier goes to ground, but tackler is still on his feet and never goes off his feet.

Remember - this is a tackle situation only, no ruck has formed, it is a 1v1 situation.

Decision:???


It would be good to get some coaches and referee's thoughts on this one!!

 

[qwerty51]

Tackler has to release the ball-carrier as soon as he hits the ground and allow him to place the ball, then go for it.

 

[cyclopath]

I think qwerty is right - doesn't matter if the tackler is on their feet or not, they have to release.

 

[Gagger]

Agree. Although by memory Kaplan pinged Sanchez in last years 3N for not releasing as the tackled player when the tackler (Richie?) had never released and Genia had never fully made it to the ground

 

[ACT Crusader]

Unless the tackler has taken the ball off the ball carrier before he hits the deck, then that "dominant" position doesn't mean too much. qwerty's explanation applies.

However as we have seen in games, sometimes there is almost a simultaneous dislodgment of ball or "steal" when the ball carrier hits the ground, from what I recall often the ball carrier gets the advantage but I've seen it go the other way as well. It's not an easy call by any means because it's a split second stuff.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

If you haven't completely stolen the ball by the time the tackle occurs (the ball-carrier hits the deck), you must release the player and if no ruck as formed you can go straight in for the ball.

Also, just a thought - If your team mate is ever in that situation (a dominant position on the ball), don't let it go to ground. Run in, make it a maul. Then your team mate can rip the ball from the player and it will still be "maul taken in by attacking team".

 

[light]

And don't attempt the tackle if its Jonah Lomu

 

[Bullrush]

Actually, I don't think it matters if the ball-carrier goes to ground - it's a matter of whether the ball basically goes to ground. If the tackler/s can hold the ball up off the ground then they don't have to release because it becomes a maul. If the attacking team cannot get the ball out then they lose the scrum feed.

Although it may seem strange that the ball-carrier can go to ground but not the ball, it does happen. This is what I think happened at the end of the Force/Hurricanes game a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Skippy]

Yes I agree with Bullrush... if the ball or ball carrying arm are not on the floor it's a maul. And the tackler is not required to release. You will see this often in games, or often attempted. i.e. where a dominant defender latches onto the ball carrying arm of the attacker and attempts to strip the ball/keep the attacker from getting the ball to the floor. Often at the higher level, the clear out is so strong and effective the defender is driven off the attacker or taken to the floor as the weight of players pile in, and of course the attacker is desperate to get to the floor also so sometimes you see them drop their legs and try and pull downwards towards the floor. At lower levels, where techniques are poorer and you get more mismatches in players physical strength you will often see good defender hold attacker off the floor.
The attacker can be literally sitting on the floor but if the ball is or never get down, or the players ball carrying arm never get down... then the ball is ruled to be off the floor and it's a maul. However again it's one of those split second decisions a referee has to make and at times I've seen him shout 'ruck... hands off' incorrectly and too soon... but I guess he is trying to give the benefit of the doubt and advantage to the attacking team.

 

[qwerty51]

Although it may seem strange that the ball-carrier can go to ground but not the ball, it does happen. This is what I think happened at the end of the Force/Hurricanes game a couple of weeks ago.

Yes, happened to Tom Carter in the Bulls game on the weekend.

 

[liquor box]

And don't attempt the tackle if its Jonah Lomu

aim for his head, you cant run without a head....or was that legs?

 

[Bullrush]

aim for his head, you cant run without a head....or was that legs?

Head.....here's what happens when you aim for his legs...

[video=youtube;A0NLC3uk5xs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0NLC3uk5xs&feature=related[/video]

 

[Scarfman]

Hi everyone, i wasn't sure where to put this thread but am interested in your thoughts.

Situation:

1v1 tackle, ball carrier runs into tackler, tackler targets the ball while both players are on their feet and gains "dominant position" on the ball (ie both players are holding the ball but the tackler has a more dominant position on the ball than the "ball carrier").

Ball carrier goes to ground, but tackler is still on his feet and never goes off his feet.

Remember - this is a tackle situation only, no ruck has formed, it is a 1v1 situation.

Decision:???


It would be good to get some coaches and referee's thoughts on this one!!

Decision? Run!

 

[Baldric]

Actually, I don't think it matters if the ball-carrier goes to ground - it's a matter of whether the ball basically goes to ground

Not true. If any part of the ball carriers body touches the ground he is deemed to have been tackled and must release/place/play the ball. A player not on his feet may not take any part of the game. The tackler by the same token must also release. The fact of the ball touching the ground has no bearing here, because it is a 1:1 and not a ruck/maul (muck) situation.
Who gets pinged. Well that is a 50:50 decision. Normally the tackler would get pinged for not giving the tackled player the opportunity to play the ball.

 

[fatprop]

One of my hobby horses, the tackler has to release and the attacker has to play the ball.

No getting up and going again if the tackler releases quickly, if that becomes the "standard", the tackler won't be quick to release.

 

[Bullrush]

Not true. If any part of the ball carriers body touches the ground he is deemed to have been tackled and must release/place/play the ball. A player not on his feet may not take any part of the game. The tackler by the same token must also release. The fact of the ball touching the ground has no bearing here, because it is a 1:1 and not a ruck/maul (muck) situation.
Who gets pinged. Well that is a 50:50 decision. Normally the tackler would get pinged for not giving the tackled player the opportunity to play the ball.

Yeah...you're probably right. I hadn't taken into consideration the 1-on-1.

 

[yourmatesam]

aim for his head, you cant run without a head....or was that legs?

I was always told players can't run without teeth!

 

[Refabit]

Not true. If any part of the ball carriers body touches the ground he is deemed to have been tackled and must release/place/play the ball. A player not on his feet may not take any part of the game. The tackler by the same token must also release. The fact of the ball touching the ground has no bearing here, because it is a 1:1 and not a ruck/maul (muck) situation.
Who gets pinged. Well that is a 50:50 decision. Normally the tackler would get pinged for not giving the tackled player the opportunity to play the ball.

This is not true. Let me quote a bit of Law.
15.3 BROUGHT TO THE GROUND DEFINED

(a) If the ball carrier has one knee or both knees on the ground, that player has been ‘brought to ground’.
(b) If the ball carrier is sitting on the ground, or on top of another player on the ground the ball carrier has been ‘brought to ground’.

So you can see it requires more than any part of the ball carriers body touching the ground to constitute a tackle.

Secondly a person coming in to make a tackle is not a "tackler" under the Laws unless he also goes to ground. He is usually referred to as a "tackle assist". Nevertheless the tackle assist is also required to release the ball carrier before playing the ball. Thus your conclusion is still correct that he should get pinged.

 

[TheNextBigThing]

Tackler must release the ball carrier.

BUT in your situation you state that the "Tackler" is holding the ball in a dominant position. Do you mean ripping? If the tackler's playing the ball in the tackle and carrier goes to ground the carrier must release. He shouldn't be able to place it. I've probably misunderstood the situation though as I can't remember this happening often, outside of a maul.

 

[Scott Allen]

The correct position is that the player who tackled but did not go to ground is not actually a "tackler" and must release the ball and come through the gate before playing the ball, not play it as though they were a "tackler".

This from the ARU 2011 Game Management Guidelines:

"Players who remain standing in a tackle
• Players who make a tackle or assist in making a tackle but remain on their feet and do not go to
ground are not “tacklers” under Law.
• Such a player must clearly release the tackled player and ball before going back to play the ball.
• Such a player may only play the ball through their gate."