waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
Yes, that one. Live I also thought he got his knee more or less immediately to ground but the replay seemed pretty conclusive that he didn't.
Refereeing decisions
- Thread starter boyo
- Start date
Derpus
Phil Waugh (73)
Technically correct because he had called a maul before the knee hit the ground… just that he called a maul pretty much as soon as contact was made and the knee touched grass pretty quickly after the tackle.
More evidence for my infinitely long list of reasons why mauls are terrible.
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
Would you prefer the ref call "held" & require the ball carrier to, 'ow you say, Play The Ball?
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Derpus
Phil Waugh (73)
Strewthcobber
David Codey (61)
I always find it a bit funny that we have laws that we all kind of just ignore because otherwise the game would become quickly unplayable, but we don't change the laws, we just expect everyone to follow convention.
There is an nothing in the laws about giving the ball carrier time to get his knees on the ground.
There is an nothing in the laws about giving the ball carrier time to get his knees on the ground.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
What is a hip drop tackle? Not a NRL watcher , and I don't quite understand what it is.
Interesting thing on tackles, was going to mention a week or so ago how pissed I was at IWL in a game using shoulder only in a tackle. Although I a Canes man I would of been more then happy if that had been upgraded to a red.
dru
David Wilson (68)
ditto
Derpus
Phil Waugh (73)
Jorgensen’s Lions hopes rest on surgery call after ‘hip-drop type tackle’
Max Jorgensen could miss the British and Irish Lions series after a tackle that may have earned a suspension in the NRL.
Footage of the incident here. Seems quite hipdroppy. Also seems Jorgo will likely miss the Lions as a result. Even if its lower end he'll be coming in cold.
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
I don't see any of the elements of a hip drop in those frames.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
It certainly has none of the elements in those NRL videos that I can see. He is basically tackled around ankles from the angle of that video. I actually thought when it happened he had twisted his ankle. It sucks for the poor bugger if it a long term injury. He looks a pretty handy young fella to me.
Ok I just read the SMH article and is his ankle. Still hope it not bad.
Ok I just read the SMH article and is his ankle. Still hope it not bad.
Wilson
John Eales (66)
It's line ball, but if we take the NRL's framework then the grab and twist are 100% there, the only question is if the body weight comes down on the leg first - it sort of does, but the force looks to be applied more horizontally through the calf and ankle, rather than directly down on the leg. This is pretty speculative at this point, but the way tackles are refereed in our game I expect that would be seen as penalty only if hip drops were illegal (but it might get him a card in the first season of outlawing them as they are cracking down).
It's worth noting there's not really any suggestion that these tackles are in any way intentional in the vast majority of circumstances, they're just also not something that is given much thought to, so players aren't trained to avoid them either. We don't have the same situation as league where the majority of tackles are these static, upright wrestles with multiple players involved. That has seen league coaches specifically explore and train various risky techniques (crusher tackles and chicken wings are others we've seen) as a way of winning that wrestle.
Derpus
Phil Waugh (73)
We see what we wanna see i guess. I thought it looked like he grabbed, twisted and then dropped/slipped down onto his legs awkwardly. But it’s definitely not as textbook as those NRL examples.
It's not the most egregious hip drop tackle but I think the key element is present.
Excuse the image quality but in the first image Iose grabs hold of Jorgensen. At this point he can still make a perfectly safe tackle by sliding down and tackling the legs.
He instead keeps hold higher up and unweights his lower body to pull Jorgensen down which has the obvious outcome of his lower body landing on Jorgensen's lower limbs.
I think rugby does need to act on this in general like the NRL and NFL have done. It was most critical in the NRL because of the frequency with which this sort of tackle can happen if it isn't policed.
The risk of serious injury is incredibly high.
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Steve_Grey
Ted Thorn (20)
Off topic I know - it's a narrow range shot, but look at all the yellow shirts vs blue shirts.
In slow mo, the tackler's hips hit the ground first and Jorgo's legs are caught by his chest and under arm. Looks like the last example on the NRL site for not being a HDT - fines margins as two of the three conditions are met.
I think you need to look at Iose's knee/thigh already being on Jorgensen's ankle and the position is his body such that as the tackle continues he is going to put more and more weight on Jorgensen's ankle.
His body isn't out of range of where Jorgensen's lower limbs are as per those final examples on the NRL video that aren't hip drop tackles.
I think rugby will get there on this.
It wasn't overly long ago that people were questioning whether Darcy Swain's clearout that destroyed Quinn Tupaea's knee was actually foul play or just a cleanout gone wrong. Now everyone is pretty comfortable with that being a very dangerous play and subject to cards and suspension.
It wasn't overly long ago that people were questioning whether Darcy Swain's clearout that destroyed Quinn Tupaea's knee was actually foul play or just a cleanout gone wrong. Now everyone is pretty comfortable with that being a very dangerous play and subject to cards and suspension.
Marbig
Ward Prentice (10)
It's a lazy way to tackle and 100% caused the injury. This particular example doesn't have the drop factor, but he knows 100% what he is doing and he tried it in the previous phase. Rugby is pretty proactive with dangerous play, so I thought for sure it would be in the laws.
JRugby2
Cyril Towers (30)
It is *technically* already illegal if the referee determines it's a dangerous tackle, as the wording of that specific law is pretty open ended.
But it needs a specific communique from WR (World Rugby) like the NRL example above so all stakeholders know how it will be policed. You won't likely see any rogue referees deciding to take matters into their own hands even if the danger is as clear as day, not least in professional rugby.
We all know how that goes down when referees decide on a dime to police laws that no one has seen in years
Derpus
Phil Waugh (73)
Why would you bring that trauma back up