Refereeing decisions

[Slim 293]

What are the relevant rules about playing the ball in the in-goal? Presumably you can as people diving on the ground to try and stop a try happens every time.

Yeah, I was going to suggest it was legal for at least this reason.

 

[Braveheart81]

Is it legal though? Why/ why not? Clear release, playing the ball off feet?

There's no requirement to release in goal.

I would say that this was adjudicated correctly. I don't think it has reached the stage of being held up. If the NZ player hadn't lost the ball and had rolled over with it away from Levi it would have been a try.

 

[Shiggins]

How about I try the right thread:

One for the nuffies.

7s overnight, Madi Levi makes an incredible try saver - you can see it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/1jsrynq
Is it legal though? Why/ why not? Clear release, playing the ball off feet?

I think because it's in goal it's fine ? I can't point to a rule though

 

[JRugby2]

21.10 If a tackled player is in the act of reaching out to ground the ball for a try or touch down, defending players may knock the ball backwards, or pull the ball from the player’s possession but must not kick or attempt to kick the ball.

This is the closest we get. Though 13. Players on the Ground in open play - make it less clear if this is legal.

13.3 A player on the ground in the field of play, without the ball is out of the game and must:

a. Allow opponents who are not on the ground to play or gain possession of the ball.

b. Not play the ball.

c. Not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.

Open play - The period after a kick-off, restart kick, free-kick, penalty or set piece and before the next phase, or the period between phases of play, excluding when the ball is dead.

I think you have to determine whether Madi is allowed to play at the ball when she's off her feet / or whether she even plays at the ball at all (kinda looks like the NZ player just lets go?)

 

[Shiggins]

Lifting a player by itself isn't illegal. You need a lift and a drop. So it depends what happens next

Hmmmm. I thought if you lift a player past Horizontal it's a penalty now. If you drop them on head and shoulders it's a yellow

 

[Ignoto]

Seems to me like the NZ player simply let go of the ball into Madi's arms.

Madi made contact with the ball before being on the ground, didn't move her arm to suggest she was playing it whilst being on the ground. She simply wrapped the player up and they just so happen to lose control of the ball.

If the NZ player had better ball control it would have just been a held up try.

 

[JRugby2]

Seems to me like the NZ player simply let go of the ball into Madi's arms.

Madi made contact with the ball before being on the ground, didn't move her arm to suggest she was playing it whilst being on the ground. She simply wrapped the player up and they just so happen to lose control of the ball.

If the NZ player had better ball control it would have just been a held up try.

To me it looks like there is a little tug.

 

[D-Box]

I think the question for the Levi one is about whether Levi took possession as part of the tackle or after the tackle. Once the tackle is completed, you must release the player and definitely cannot play on the ball. During the tackle, you can do what you like. This looks like part of the tackle rather than after.

 

[JRugby2]

I think the question for the Levi one is about whether Levi took possession as part of the tackle or after the tackle. Once the tackle is completed, you must release the player and definitely cannot play on the ball. During the tackle, you can do what you like. This looks like part of the tackle rather than after.

A tackle can only occur within the field of play, once it moves in-goal you have different laws applying.

 

[JRugby2]

Hmmmm. I thought if you lift a player past Horizontal it's a penalty now. If you drop them on head and shoulders it's a yellow

It might appear that way, but there is more nuance. This is the law

9.18 A player must not lift an opponent off the ground and drop or drive that player so that their head and/or upper body make contact with the ground.

In practice:

Lift above horizontal, lands on side/ lower back - YC
Lift above horizontal, lands on shoulder/ neck head - RC
A lifting tackle that doesn't meet that criteria above but is still awkward/ dangerous for those involved - PK (but this would technically be law 9.13)

So yes, a lift past horizontal is still technically legal if they land safely, as per the above.

If you were to lift a player into a dangerous position, but them safely revert them back to their feet - I think most referees would (should) let that play.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Love a good fringe case!

JR has hit the nail on the head. Can't have a tackle in goal (or a ruck, scrum or maul) so none of those laws apply.

It's in the In-goal - but there is no law in that section around playing the ball off your feet etc, and it appears that the requirements for "held up" aren't met.

21.10 If a tackled player is in the act of reaching out to ground the ball for a try or touch down, defending players may knock the ball backwards, or pull the ball from the player’s possession but must not kick or attempt to kick the ball.

So legal to get hold of the ball. What's legal next? Are we are on the ground in open play?

Back to arguing why she went to ground here again!

13.1 Players, who go to ground to gather the ball or who go to ground with the ball, must immediately:

a. Get up with the ball

 

[JRugby2]

Fortunately, the foreword of the law book gives us some clarity for situations like this:

It is the duty of the referee to apply fairly all the laws in every match, including law trials and variations as authorised by World Rugby - and in the event some cool shit happens, ignore them.